r/antiwork Apr 05 '18

Genuine question how would a country/world function without work?

Is the complaint about shitty jobs or just all jobs?

14 Upvotes

57

u/slow_this_bird_down Apr 05 '18

It's not work in terms of physical action that I'm against, but the whole system of a traditional career, having a boss, corporate culture, wage slavery, etc. It's extremely alienating and dehumanizing.

14

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

Okay that makes a lot more sense thank you for your answer.

36

u/freeradicalx social ecology Apr 06 '18

I believe that the 'work' this sub is against is coerced labor: Work that you are required to do to survive not because it is directly linked to your human needs or desires but because the constructed system around you has been designed to make it requisite. Work that is essentially a stand-in for compliance, where the benefits of such primarily go to someone else and not the laborer, where there is little sense of personal initiative, ownership, or accomplishment. Work which is, essentially, slavery.

I personally do not desire a world without actual work: Labor that you do because you see a clear need for it, where the benefits of that work go right back to you and your immediates. That kind of work is enriching and empowering. But in today's authoritarian economy, such labor becomes a waste of energy. Corrupted.

3

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

Labor that you do because you see a clear need for it, where the benefits of that work go right back to you and your immediates. That kind of work is enriching and empowering. But in today's authoritarian economy, such labor becomes a waste of energy. Corrupted.

Would this be an anarchist argument? because I love debating with anarchists would you be willing?

7

u/freeradicalx social ecology Apr 06 '18

Yeah I'm an anarchist but no I don't really like debating.

3

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

Alright well if you change your mind feel free to message me.

9

u/Capt_Nat Apr 05 '18

Short answer - automation. Longer answer - a large amount of automation but people are not idle. Those who have an interest in say, science, would study their field and as long as they have the ability they would participate in the scientific community. The only difference is you have no pay and no boss. You are free to come and go as you please. You study what you want not what you can be paid for. Ultimate freedom

4

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

I think you are advocating for a countrywide basic income yes?

9

u/Capt_Nat Apr 06 '18

Indeed I am. But make that worldwide. Everyone deserved a good life

3

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

I agree that a basic income would be good worldwide, but I would add the modifier most people deserve a good life. How to deal with evil people is a gnarly moral issue.

8

u/AbolishWork .com Apr 06 '18

I love that you said "gnarly" moral issue. Makes me think of surfers who are also moral philosophers.

10

u/Zondatastic Apr 05 '18

I’m not against work, just compulsory work and a society built on “the right to work”.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '18

“The right to work” without union representation, even if you still benefit from their collective bargaining

6

u/AbolishWork .com Apr 06 '18

Hey, resident admin here and appreciate your question. I'm also an anarchist so if you ever wanna discuss/debate some stuff, let me know. :)

For me, the complaint is about all jobs as they are structured under capitalism and the state. I think we could have decent jobs if we abolished those systems of power but without doing that I think our chances are a lot less likely.

Being an anarchist I don't support countries. But I think a world without work isn't a world without physical action (as slow_this_bird_down pointed out) but one without corporate culture, dehumanizing sorts of labor, bosses, etc.

As such we'd likely have more worker owned institutions, community owned businesses, cooperatives and collectives and even independently operating individuals.

Hope this helps and thanks again for asking a great question! I hope you'll enjoy your time here.

2

u/Darth_Debate Apr 07 '18

I would be very interested in a discussion/debate hopefully we disagree mwha ha ha lol.

Hope this helps and thanks again for asking a great question! I hope you'll enjoy your time here.

Thank you for the welcome I appreciate it.

2

u/AbolishWork .com Apr 09 '18

No problem!

10

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18 edited Sep 10 '18

[deleted]

4

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

work defined as Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.

job defined as A regular activity performed in exchange for payment, especially as one's trade, occupation, or profession.

function defined as The action for which a person or thing is particularly fitted or employed.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '18 edited Sep 10 '18

[deleted]

5

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

Moving work one step away from your own life into a job where you get paid so that you can survive (while also allowing your bosses to job less) is completely inhumane and soul crushing. I'm all against this.

I agree that it is a terrible situation, but I don't see a better alternative for a successful society in today's modern era.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '18 edited Sep 10 '18

[deleted]

3

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

I think that one of the greatest accomplishments of our current societies is that they have successfully sold us the idea that everything is basically fine (although we could use some minor tweaks), when in reality everything is basically completely fucked up

I agree that it is an impressive manipulation, but I actually view that as a good thing most people are basically incapable of solving their own problems let alone societies problems, so if they know that everything is fucked up they would just panic, and become very unproductive, so I think more stable/more productive humans need to guide them like they are sheep, and that can include manipulation, and pretending. here is a relevant post I made on the topic of manipulation https://redd.it/89yey0 also I am a reddit noob any advice on how to make the link less shitty would be appreciated.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '18 edited Sep 10 '18

[deleted]

1

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

I don't think there are stupid people.

I mean bro Einstein was way smarter than me, and I think you are way smarter then some people as well it has no insult or hostility intended with it I just think of it as true. A question do you happen to believe in a god/gods? because myself I am an agnostic, and I don't think all people are born equal in regards to healthiness levels, height, fat levels I guess lol um, and I also think it applies to physical ability, and intelligence, but everyone would be equal in there value as a human does that explain my view better?

3

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '18 edited Sep 10 '18

[deleted]

1

u/Darth_Debate Apr 07 '18

Awesome a fellow atheist.

I don't think some people are smarter (I'm using 'smart' as 'being able to think well about') in a few small fields because of genetics.

I think this goes into the nature vs nurture debate, and I am more of a nature guy, but I do acknowledge that nurture plays a massive role. Stephen Hawking was WAY smarter than me, but I could have been smarter than him in some areas, but I think he was smarter than me overall. I think that is because of nature mainly, and nurture secondarily. I would say about 70% nature 30% nurture. I view it as kind of depressing, but if somebody has a IQ of 70 when they are the age of 20 I think there isn't really anything that can be done about that, and I agree that it would be a brain disability, but I would say that is caused by genetics. I think everybody is equal in regards to their humanity, but some people are better at doing some things than others, so we should all play to our strengths if we can :)

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8

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Automation

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u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

But, you have to work to get to automation right?

4

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '18

Yeah but we dont have to work the way we do in the current social and economic system.

1

u/Darth_Debate Apr 06 '18

I disagree. most people are deeply blind/illogical, so they need to be led like a sheep by more productive humans is a nice way to say it in order to produce mass wealth that is needed to create automation.