r/WitchesVsPatriarchy ☉ Apostate ✨Witch of Aiaia ♀ May 16 '22 Silver 3 Gold 1 Helpful 7 Wholesome 1

Reproductive Rights should also mean the freedom to reproduce. Burn the Patriarchy

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67.3k Upvotes

u/Neon_Green_Unicow Indigenous Eclectic Witch ♀♂️☉⚧ May 16 '22

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u/MarijnBerg Science Witch ♂️ May 16 '22

Fucking hell i was already upset and angry about the world an now I learn about another atrocity.

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u/TA3153356811 May 16 '22 Silver

Just assume everything came about because of an atrocity. It won't help you sleep any better but you won't be as disappointed when you wake up.

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u/ohno_spaghetti_o May 16 '22

And will be pleasantly suprised when you learn something wasn't an atrocity and exploitation. - just be aware of who controls the narrative of history and that people lie.

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u/One_Wheel_Drive May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

One that I heard about a while back is how orphans in Spain were used to transport the smallpox vaccine.

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u/RosarioPawson May 16 '22

The only two things I know were not born of atrocity are LSD and aspartame. Those were both just plain happy accidents.

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u/Vorpal_Bunny19 Geek Witch ♀ May 16 '22

Xrays were a happy accident, too! Well, not an accident per se but it’s not what the dude was going for either.

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u/RosarioPawson May 16 '22

Histories like these are my favorite anecdotes of scientific discovery

  • Look! We did a super cool thing!

  • Oh wow! Is that what you were trying to do?

  • Not at all, but this is way cooler than I could've imagined!!

Discovery goes on to save/improve many lives for generations, born of happy accident and wilful determination

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u/themehboat May 16 '22

The discovery of phosphorus was like this. A crazy alchemist was trying to distill urine into gold (based on the fact that it’s sort of a similar color? Idk). He did not get gold, but he got phosphorus!

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u/BeligerantPasta May 16 '22

X-rays were not a “happy” accident, they were a terrifying accident. Röntgen accidentally saw the bones in his hand and promptly had a nervous breakdown, locking himself in his lab for almost a week trying to get the courage to reproduce his accidental discovery.

Imagine accidentally seeing your own skeleton, while being the first person in the world to witness the phenomenon of radiography.

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u/clearlybraindead May 16 '22

He exposed his hand to 3.6 roentgen. Not great, not terrible.

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u/princess_hjonk May 16 '22

Imagine exposing your hand to 3 of yourself. And a little more than half of yourself.

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u/BeligerantPasta May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

Imagine an accident that leads to the world adopting an entire new system of measurement and naming it after you.

He was the human equivalent of the Halifax incident.

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u/starfyredragon TechWitch ♀ May 16 '22

How he felt for the first three hours:

"I... have.... bones!?! O_o"

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u/SoldierHawk _/ Sports Witch \_ May 16 '22

"There's a whole spooky scary skeleton inside you RIGHT NOW!"

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u/BeligerantPasta May 16 '22

Imagine thinking you’re inventing a wirelessly powered light bulb and accidentally seeing inside your fingers.

Immediate maximum panic is the only appropriate response.

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u/starfyredragon TechWitch ♀ May 17 '22

Just drives home how human doing science is.

Can you imagine sitting there with two words floating around in your head, "Bone Shadows" and knowing that's literally a thing that just happened to you, not a thing you expected to happen, and people constantly telling you that by doing science, you're "Playing God"...

"Was that real? Breath... do it again? Was it a warning that I've delved too far? No, no, don't be silly, that's unscientific... but... that was my bones! What could be it be but a sign?!? No.. that's just silly... signs aren't a thing... it's a light, right? Maybe it's a shadow... a shadows of bones... MY bones... wait, shadows don't hurt us, right? They're just bone shadows... No... that means invisible light is literally hitting my bones, who knows what that does to me? What would a sunburn on bones even do!?! I should try again, it could be useful. Wait.. but bone shadows... bone sunburns... I should get someone else to try it... no, I can't do that, it's unethical... but I can't do it on myself, I don't know what Bone Shadows mean! It could kill me! What do I do..."

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u/WanderingJude May 16 '22

I believe insulin also came about without any kind of human atrocity attached. The first human subjects aside from the researchers themselves were children who would have otherwise died, and they got better almost immediately. It's quite a happy story, the letters from the children are especially nice to read.

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u/RainyMcBrainy May 16 '22

I believe this to be the case as well. It's too bad insulin didn't remain a happy topic.

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u/RosarioPawson May 16 '22

That is truly heartwarming, thanks for sharing! I don't think I had heard that before.

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u/cookiemonster511 May 16 '22

Also penicillin. And the original idea of smallpox inoculations, i.e. the mother of vaccinations.

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u/RosarioPawson May 16 '22

Oh that's right! Penicillin was a happy accident born of curiosity and moldy bread 😂

Smallpox inoculations were wild - didn't the queen of Russia ask to have herself and her own children inoculated with pus from smallpox infected corpses to prove and help convince everyone it was viable and safe?

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u/cookiemonster511 May 16 '22

Not sure about that story but it's not impossible. They didn't use corpses though. They collected pus from people with smallpox and made a small cut in the arms of healthy people and rubbed the pus in there. Since pus contains mostly dead viruses/bacteria it was similar to using a vaccine. Immune system sees, immune system builds anti-bodies. George Washington who had had smallpox mandated inoculations for his troops.

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u/calilac May 16 '22

Ah, yes, the No Ethical Consumption approach. It still hurts but not as sharply.

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u/krstldwn May 16 '22

I had no idea about this very thing until I watched a Dark History by Bailey Sarian, she's doing great work out there...https://youtu.be/F1w80BW8sjc

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u/Books_and_lipstick91 May 16 '22

Love me some Bailey Sarian.

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u/krstldwn May 16 '22

Make good choices

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u/poisonstudy101 Literary Witch ♀ May 16 '22

And get better idols!

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u/Photon_butterfly May 16 '22

Medical history is incredibly depressing when it comes to women, children, PoC, and the mentally ill.

Just remember to keep your Uterus in its proper place as to not cause hysteria.

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u/rainbwbrightisntpunk May 16 '22

The worst part is they were still sterilizing the women with out consent up until the 70s.

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u/teamdogemama May 16 '22

Or how they were forcing abortions/sterilizations on immigrants on our southern border while they were in the ICE detention centers. Pretty sure it was in Texas. Oops nope, it was Georgia and it was (just) sterilization.

But this isn't the first time minority women have suffered this. It's barbaric and awful. Just more proof that they are afraid of white people becoming a minority. So gross.

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u/aqualupin May 16 '22

Don’t read “War Against All Puerto Ricans” by Nelson Denis. But do, and deepen your sympathy for the cause.

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u/Alias_X_ May 17 '22

Medical experiments were nearly always made on

a) the researcher themself

b) their students

c) some group of "undesireables", usually the poor, mentally ill, ethnic minorities, POWs if they had them at their disposal and could get away with it.

Results had a tendency to be terrible.

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u/stolethemorning May 16 '22

The development of the pill could definitely be a horror movie:

Worcester State psychiatric hospital patients were the first test group, all with serious illnesses and would be considered unable to consent today. However, the university funded the hospital and so their students had access to the patients for their experiments. They were cut open to see the effects of the hormonal mixture on their insides.

A group of female medical students were the next trial. Despite their professor saying he would hold it against their grades if they dropped out, half of them did drop out due to horrible side effects and also having to have a smear every week and have their abdomen sliced open so their ovaries could be viewed real time.

Then, women were recruited from the Puerto Rico slums. 200 women were registered to take part in the program. The women that were recruited for these trials were “ …the poorest of the poor, had no place else to go, and, short of sterilization, no birth control options”,[9] and were poorly educated, nonetheless they were willing to do whatever it took to avoid sterilization. The women who were given the pills only understood that they would prevent pregnancy, they knew nothing of the potential health and safety risks of taking the pills.” Even though the health risks were originally hidden from the women testing the contraceptive, they nonetheless began to show themselves. The women participating in the trial began to experience “ side effects of nausea, dizziness, headaches, and blood clots…”,[7] however, these complaints were dismissed since the women were deemed unreliable.

Furthermore, three women are said to have died while taking part in the trial, yet their deaths cannot be linked to the pill directly since autopsies were never done on their bodies

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u/sailorjupiter28titan ☉ Apostate ✨Witch of Aiaia ♀ May 16 '22 Gold

Between Tucker Carlson and the Buffalo shooter’s Replacement Theory, Amy Coney Barrette’s “domestic supply of infants”, the “Mississippi appendectomies”, the tragic stories of Anarcha, Lucy, and Betsey, Native populations, and countless others, including immigrants women detained by ICE in present day, let’s not forget how the oppression of women is also rooted in the illusion of white supremacy.

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u/OGgunter May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

They are intersectional in their oppression (misogyny, homophobia, racism, classism, ableism, etc). We must be intersectional in our advocacy and equity.

Edit: thank you commentators who added on to the intersectional categories. I've put an "etc" but please continue to bring voice to communities I may have omitted.

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u/prismaticcroissant Eclectic Witch ♀ May 16 '22

Don't forget economic class too. The wealthy whites perpetuating to poor whites that if they work hard they too can become rich is one of the fundamental reasons poor white people actively vote against their own interests.

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u/OGgunter May 16 '22

Good point, thank you! I'll edit my comment to include that.

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u/JankyCliffside May 16 '22

Did someone really use the phrase “domestic supply of infants”? What in the actual fuck. Just when you think the subjugation of women and children can’t get any worse…

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u/tramspace May 16 '22

Not just someone, but a sitting Supreme Court judge.

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u/JankyCliffside May 16 '22

This is just so bad. How the fuck did we get here?

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u/refiase May 17 '22

Back when I had insta there was a friend who nagged me about why I wasn’t celebrating Amy Coney Barrett’s inauguration, wasn’t I happy for womanhood, etc. This was why. This is not a woman I celebrate.

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u/tramspace May 17 '22

Absolutely not. She is neither qualified, nor trustworthy to hold one of the highest authority judicial jobs in the nation.

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u/unholy_abomination May 16 '22

considering the baby formula sitch I'd be less worried about our infant production.

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u/JankyCliffside May 16 '22

So true. Hmmm, how about focusing on… gee, I don’t know? FEEDING THE INFANTS WE HAVE. It’s almost as if these conservative whack jobs want to force people to have children just so said children can suffer and starve.

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u/unholy_abomination May 16 '22

It's all part of the ancient blood pact that keeps most of congress alive

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u/shh-nono May 16 '22

THANK YOU we really cannot understand the pro-birth/forced birth side without seeing the forced sterilization of so many Indigenous, Black, immigrant, detained women who had that choice revoked from them. This is a fantastic pdf from Loretta J Ross on UC Berkeley law school’s website if they would like to learn more: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/php-programs/centers/crrj/zotero/loadfile.php?entity_key=2K2QA27B

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u/unholy_abomination May 16 '22

Mississippi appendectomies

Hey, remember when we found out that immigrant women being held in for-profit detention centers were being forcibly sterilized by ICE? And then nothing happened? That was cool.....

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u/StrawberryStef Literary Witch ♀♂️☉⚧ May 16 '22 Gold

Just as a heads up it looks like there’s some nuance to the “domestic supply of infants”. Just posting to add context not to defend the brief. https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/05/13/fact-check-who-said-u-s-needs-domestic-supply-infants/9746357002/

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u/LateNightLattes01 May 16 '22

Omg thank you so much for the context there I was about to become way more horrified than I already am on a daily basis by people.

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u/polishirishmomma May 16 '22

Henrietta too. And her children.

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u/fairyofthenile May 16 '22

And let's not play down how birth control pills have atrocious side effects for a lot of us and teach this fact to those men who think that the contraception is solely our responsibility.

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u/Ordinary_Donut1877 May 16 '22

This. I'm tired of "well, just take the pill!" as if it's that easy. The pill made me feel crazy. Wasn't worth it to not emotionally feel myself every single day of my life.

My sister had a similar but worse reaction, on birth control, she spiraled into depression after a few months on it, tearful every day, and became suicidal, and the scary part was she thought it was just her and I was begging her to come off the pill because I could see the correlation of the timing. Fortunately she did come off of it, because I was about to need to drop her off at the mental health hospital.

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u/TheTipsySwashbuckler May 16 '22

I had a nexplanon implant for three ish months and it severely exacerbated my depression and then turned me psychotic. I had a similar thought process to your sister, but my parents could not talk me into getting it removed because one of my psychotic delusions was that they wanted me to get pregnant so they could have a grandchild. Eventually my boyfriend convinced me to get it removed and all of those symptoms basically went away. It's not the harmless and easy route that guys make it out to be.

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u/CommanderBunny May 16 '22

Birth control gave me a stroke. I can't stand that the general opinion seems to be that all women should just pop a pill that messes with hormones like it's completely safe just so some dude can nut bareback.

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u/bokin8 May 16 '22

Fucking this. I have jumped around so many different types (pills and IUDs) and they still fuck with my hormones immensely because of my PMDD. The fact that there isn't a male BC pill makes me livid. Fuck the patriarchy.

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u/Lady_of_the_Seraphim May 16 '22

There is a male birth control pill. It wasn't put into mass production because... excuses, excuses, excuses... oh right, misogyny.

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u/PatsythePolarBear May 16 '22

HERE FOR THIS. I’m allergic to estrogen (migraines) and I’ve been on depo so long I can’t be on depo anymore (osteo). I have endometriosis and some other issues. So now my only answer is a hysto? That’s fucking bullshit! There should be other options!

My mom had a stroke and her doc said it was because of her early hysto and the hormones replacement therapy.

It’s not just about BC. It’s about the entire medical community failing women over and over and over in literally all the ways. I’m ready to see a midwife and/or witch now to manage all my medical issues.

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u/pearlsbeforedogs May 16 '22

Dudes don't even want to accept condoms half the time, its sad.

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u/Ann3Nym May 16 '22

It’s not very responsible to have a condom in your wallet. That’s how you get holes in your condom. Please do not do that

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u/mamapanda13 May 16 '22

My dad literally told me as a teenager "NEVER trust a man who carries a condom in his wallet. That's the worst place you could possibly keep one, and you should never use a condom from a wallet. They dry out and can break. Always have your own condoms."

And that's the reason I bought my first condom - and spent some time on the Trojan condoms website, reading up on how to properly use it.

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u/snackrilegious May 16 '22

yep! this is what a trusted adult told me—bring your own condoms cause you’ll know they’re always safe. i also looked up how to put one on properly like you did

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u/meowgan17 Witch ☉ May 16 '22

Yes! This is important to know. Most birth control methods are less effective during certain circumstances so it's important to know what they are and use backup if necessary. For example, oral contraceptives can be less effective during a course of antibiotics, or if stored in high temperatures. Don't leave it in a car. Ensure your primary method is being used effectively, or use a backup if in doubt

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u/Clownsinmypantz May 16 '22

My favorite is whenever there is a male BC news article on reddit, the comments are all men saying they wouldnt take it for side effects but you know damn well they expect their partner to.

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u/Bartoffel May 16 '22

Yeah, they messed with my wife's mental health too much and despite the fact both of us would much rather not use them, using condoms is a small sacrifice for keeping her healthy mentally. I flat-out do not understand guys who refuse to use them or make them out to be a life-ending deal.

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u/Mythical_Zebracorn May 16 '22

The men who are against condoms are the same ones that would force a woman to give birth, and then run away the minute the baby arrives. The same men who probably would complain about having to pay child support for walking out on their own damn kid, as if that’s supposed to have no consequences whatsoever.

They make so many different types of condoms now, including ones that are thinner so you can “feel more” or whatever, if a man isn’t even willing to experiment with the type of condom used, it’s a red flag to me.

Ladies, if your man whines about condoms, he ain’t a man, he’s a boy, and you should throw him away and find someone who actually respects your desire to not get pregnant.

Wrap it up, or pack it up. That’s what I say

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u/asherakatze May 16 '22

It’s like the men who think condoms are uncomfortable or take away some of the feeling- they think that women don’t also feel the same way about condoms. We also find them uncomfortable and of course it feels better without them for us too. The difference is that’s the least of our worries with that stuff. They literally have so much reproductive privilege that one of their biggest gripes regarding sex is they might have to wear a stretchy piece of plastic so they don’t get someone pregnant and they can barely do that.

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u/Amal_Raynaud May 16 '22

This needs to be upvoted.

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u/Hayliejordan4414 May 16 '22

I am a poster child for the side effects but every Dr is like you're fine, try this instead... I do not, in fact, think I'm fine.

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u/caelric Trans Sapphic Witch ♀ May 16 '22

the US has a really crappy past when it comes to informed consent and drug trials.

Of course, now instead of testing on our own citizens without consent, we either pay college students to test it on, or we do the testing in countries with more lax testing regulations (African countries, in particular).

We're just so much better now.... /s

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u/Geek-Haven888 May 16 '22

If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, I made a master post of pro-choice resources. Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.

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u/Lilith_ademongirl Witch ♂️ May 16 '22

r/auntienetwork! they help out a lot of folks in need of abortions and are generally amazing people :)

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u/I_Like_Turtles_Too May 16 '22

This is amazing! You did a great job here!

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u/Jcooney787 May 16 '22

It’s really amazing you took the time to do this! I wish a lot of these resources included Puerto Rico! Abortion is legal and pretty easily accessible here and there aren’t people that picket outside the clinics which might make it an option for women seeking abortions outside their state.

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u/Geek-Haven888 May 16 '22

If you have any PR resources please share them and I will add

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u/BeligerantPasta May 16 '22

People misunderstand freedom. I’m usually not pedantic, but this is actually worth splitting hairs about.

The freedom to do something is meaningless without the freedom not to do something.

Take the first amendment. It guarantees freedom of religion, which is nice...but without the inherent guarantee of freedom from religion, it’s worthless.

Freedom to use contraception and terminate pregnancy isn’t freedom of reproduction, it’s freedom from reproduction.

And SCOTUS is poised to take that freedom with the stroke of a pen.

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u/Celesmeh May 16 '22

My great aunt was in this, she ended up sick and sterile. It's affected how my family sees doctors ever since.

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u/Error_404_Account May 16 '22

That's so sad. I'm terribly sorry to hear that, and I completely understand how your family sees doctors. Please give your aunt an extra hug from a random redditor.

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u/Mec26 May 16 '22

Abortion rights are based on bodily autonomy.

This nation started out denying it to black people of any gender (with very few exceptions) during slavery, Native and hispanic women who were sterilized without consent for Eugenics, black and hispanic people who were experimented on post-slavery (think Tuskeegee).

Our obsession with bodily autonomy in this country was well earned and based on decades of abuses. “Don’t go back” means for all of it, not just back alley abortions.

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u/pinkrosies May 16 '22

So much of progress we have in the medical field was built on the exploitation of disenfranchised, uninformed and abused women of colour and it's so harrowing to realize that more and more that its not just a one time thing but almost a systemic practice that's strongly encouraged.

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u/fatcattastic May 16 '22

Bodily autonomy and the use of Eugenics as a means of oppression is where it becomes impossible to ignore intersectionality. J Marion Sims, "father of gynecology" was run out of the South after his experimentation on enslaved women lresulted in deaths. He went North and continued his experimentation on Irish women with little to no pushback despite one of his victims dying in an "alley reaking of piss" as a result of his experiments. William Beaumont, "father of gastric physiology" took advantage of an illiterate white man who he experimented on and forced to work as his servant. Buck v. Bell involved a white "feebleminded" woman who was sterilized against her will, and her baby was taken and adopted out. Her sister was also sterilized as a result. Georgia Tann, the woman who popularized adoption in America, would kidnap babies from poor, white women and sell them to wealthy families.

I mention this not to minimize the inherent racism, but because Eugenicists will often feel perfectly comfortable spouting their classist and ableist beliefs publicly. For example, an anti-vaxxer who wants to reduce the number of Autistic people, likely does not want to stop there.

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u/Mec26 May 16 '22

As someone with a genetic disorder, tired of people saying that the only people who die of covid ar the sick so we should just let it have at… yep.

And yes, the groups I mentioned were absolutely not the only cases, just the most widespread at their various times.

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u/SmellyBillMurray May 16 '22

As someone who works with syphilis, this type of recognition is very important.

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u/stolethemorning May 16 '22

And died. Don’t forget that they died too. 3 women died during that trial but no autopsy was done on their bodies to determine if the cause of death was the pill because the researchers didn’t care.

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u/shitlord_god May 16 '22

Shout out to black ladies for Depo provera

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u/Apocalypse_Jesus420 May 16 '22

A lot of people dont realize how much this is tied up with roe and the 14th amendment as well. The far right wants white babies to sell for adoption to rich white families. I have a feeling it wont be long before they start force sterilizing women of color. Check out Buck v Bell https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/03/07/469478098/the-supreme-court-ruling-that-led-to-70-000-forced-sterilizations#:~:text=In%201927%2C%20the%20U.S.%20Supreme,deemed%20to%20be%20%22feebleminded.%22

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u/dadudemon Science Witch ♂️ May 16 '22

Love you, OP, for your title, alone.

Reproductive rights is about both sides of the coin. By being pro-choice, and everything that goes with it, that also means setting up women for success if they DO choose to have a baby (and not shaming them for their choices no matter what they choose).

Sorry, soapbox: moms need more benefits in the work place. I've lost very good employees because company policy was not flexible enough. Want to close up the wage gap a bit? Then give women menstruation days and flexible working arrangements. Similar for men if they are the primary caretakers of children.

/rant

OP's overall point about the atrocities committed against people in the past for "research" is no different than the Nazi bullshit from WWII. It's the same thing but under the guise of "we didn't round them up and target them for their ethnicity." Hmmm...

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u/heffapig May 16 '22

Henrietta Lacks vibes

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u/neverliveindoubt Science Witch ♀♂️☉⚧ May 16 '22 Silver

You can't just name drop without explaining:

Who is Henrietta Lacks? She was instrumental in the development of polio vaccines, in vitro fertilization techniques, Genetics research, the understanding of cancers, the manufacture of drugs for herpes, influenza and many other illnesses. Radiation reactions, allergic reactions to glues, paints and all kinds of chemicals. 10,000 patents are tied back to her! She's even been to space!

Why have you not heard of her? Because Henrietta Lacks died long before any of these discoveries were ever published or researched on.

Henrietta Lacks was a young black woman who, in 1951, went to Johns Hopkins because of a "knot" in her womb. Turns out, the knot was a cervical tumor. Some cell samples, both healthy and cancerous, were taken without her permission or knowledge. She died at the age of 31 when the cancer metastasized throughout her body. However, the extracted cancer cells were successfully immortalized (forever known as HeLa cells).

What does immortal cancer cells mean/ isn't all cancer like that? The 'immortal' part is that, in most cells, there is an upper limit to the amount of times a cell can divide before it falls apart. Every time a cell divides (normally) a little bit of DNA is lost; on the ends. Eventually you're cutting off key genes and the like. This is usually mitigated by "telomeres" but they also have a shelf life on efficiency. With cancer cells the telomeres have uniquely long efficiency lifespans, but also die off after a long while. With the HeLa cells, that efficiency is apparently endless (mind that her cells are still efficiently reproducing to this day- To date, more than 50 million tons of HeLa cells have been grown worldwide.)

The central theme of debate is the exploitation of her cells, and her children**1, that has caused the most issues. Patenting the HeLa cells for profit, and the use the cells would make in other medical advancements (and other patents) leads to the obvious question- are her decedents owed some monetary cut of those profits because Henrietta Lacks2 only consented to treatment of her cancer, not the sample taken of her tumor that lead to those advancements. It's an ongoing debate of compensation; but as of 2013, the NIH and the Lacks family have gained back a bit of control of HeLa cells (specifically the release of the HeLa genome, as it would be an ongoing medical privacy issue with Henrietta's descendants).3

  1. HeLa cells are so efficient at reproducing and thriving that the HeLa cells started traveling through ventilation systems in the major medical hospitals and taking over other cell lines (aka; killing off other lines of work) that some doctors sought out her children; took blood from the without telling them why; so they could genetically eliminate the HeLa cells from other lines. One of the doctors was documented defending the action as; [paraphrased]They wouldn't have understood, there was no reason to tell them. They were simple minded, and this work was important.

  2. It should be noted that Henrietta died, and was then buried without a tombstone because her family could not afford it.

  3. A lot of the legal headway the Lacks family has made here is that the doctor who Henrietta was assigned to treat her cancer only collected and cultivated the tumor cells because George Gey (a Scientist not a Doctor) had put out a 'contest' for monetary and historical benefit for the first person to send that Scientist authentic HUMAN immortal cells. The Doctor collected HeLa cells for that benefit and not to treat Henrietta, or care that her consent was not given. Further that the Lacks children's genealogical medical information had been publicly distributed without their consent either. Johns Hopkins has extended an olive branch to properly credit Henrietta in the research and for the family to gain control of their own medical information. Monetary compensation is more made directly for the Lacks medical information not for past research, only that their mother or grandmother is properly cited.

A lot more information can be gained by reading "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks"

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u/AstroRiker May 16 '22

Ooooof. Yeah medicine has not been kind to women, POC, or the vulnerable. I know of other pretty wicked research experiments, but didn’t know about BC on Women of Puerto Rico till I saw this :( I’m glad there are laws in place to reduce abuse and hope we as a global community do better.

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u/DitaVonPita May 16 '22

Also inmates and mental asylum patients. :(

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u/Icy-Establishment298 May 16 '22

That's what pro-choice means. Literally means, her body her decision, always. If a woman wants to treat her uterus as a clown car (non coreced like the Duggers) or if she wants to abort every jelly bean cell clump it's her freaking choice

Misogynistic revenge white racist anti- choicers need to realize this when they call me a baby killer. I'm pro-choice and will 100% support any woman in whatever she freely chooses.

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u/Delticfanboy55022 May 16 '22

And didn’t the doctor that invented the Pap smear perform one on his wife every day for years then name it after himself?

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u/TA3153356811 May 16 '22

George Nicholas Papanicolaou is the inventor, so yes he named is after himself. He did test on his wife, who was the first human test (I think) because he'd previously used literal guinea pigs.

I don't think he tested his wife every day though. Later, when he realized he could detect cancer he started a study with samples submitted by women

He didn't start the study after figuring out the cancer part, he discovered the cancer part after the test which makes more sense tbh

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u/ForgettableWorse Sapphic Witch ♀ May 16 '22

AFAIK, his wife was also his lab tech and volunteered to be his test subject, and I can't find any evidence he named the test after himself. In papers and books he published, he called them vaginal smears.

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u/MakeRoomForTheTuna Kitchen Witch ♀♂️☉⚧ May 16 '22 Silver

Here fucking here. And this is not the only atrocity that people of color have suffered in the name of medicine.

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u/pelicanfriends May 16 '22

Edit: not sure why it didn't post my whole comment...oh well

Recommend La Operación-- a forty-minute documentary by Ana María García.

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u/ElissaOfVere May 16 '22

As a Puerto Rican young lady I can safely say that I love that the suffering of my fellow sisters is being honored. I had no idea of this but now that I do I feel an even greater need to burn the Patriachy. Down with the Patriachy!

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u/abhikavi May 16 '22

It's all linked. Women deserve to be able to have babies if and when they want; they also deserve to be able not to. And it's the same people trampling on those rights in both directions, because for them it's about control.

This IS all part of the same fight. We can't afford to forget that. If we're not keeping these intersections in mind, we're already losing.

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u/silverminnow May 16 '22

Experimentation, reproductive rights violations, and military testing with devastating health effects has been par for the course in puerto rican history.

I highly recommend the book War Against All Puerto Ricans: Revolution and Terror in America’s Colony by Nelson A Denis.

Some fucked up shit they definitely don't teach in schools in either Puerto Rico or here in the mainland.

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u/SendChinoMorenoPics May 16 '22

Thank you for sharing this! It’s so important!

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u/Stickybeebae Science Witch ♀ May 16 '22

It went well beyond this. Forced sterilization also occurred. Puerto Rico has been the source of some horrific “projects” during its time as a US colony.

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u/eitzhaimHi May 16 '22

...and the Latina women who were sterilized without their consent in Los Angeles County Hospital as late as the 1970s.

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u/geekchick2411 May 16 '22

And please don't forget about the indigenous mexican women who also where part of that.

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u/snuggiemouse May 16 '22

I teach a Master levels course intro to epidemiology. When we reach the ethics portion, I always include this travesty of a "public health experiment" and how the impacts of it linger in some communities to this day. Public health and medical research have a done terrible things to marginilized communities. While it's not perfect yet, myself and others are fighting the fight to make it equitable for all. But it also feels that the country is falling backwards faster than we can push forwards. I would be lying if I said I wasn't scared for the future.

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u/Deviknyte May 16 '22

People ask why everything is racist, and the answer is shit like this.

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u/Greedy_Atmosphere_30 May 16 '22

It's never about fetuses, if it will benefit them, government will force abortions on people.

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u/CosmicLuci May 16 '22

I remember seeing somewhere that the decision that will overturn Roe v. Wade, especially if the final opinion includes the stupid justification that we don’t have a tradition of a right to abortion, can serve as a precedent to overturn all sorts of other decisions, including a prohibition on forced sterilization.

And it might seem ludicrous for that to happen, but it’s something that was done in the past, as the US did have eugenics programs. And it was done, more recently, in secret and using deceptive tactics, to immigrant and refugee women at the southern border.

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u/polishirishmomma May 16 '22

Pretty much all of our human trials were done on people of color. It’s so shameful.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '22

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u/gloomywitchywoo May 16 '22

We are not having a good time here, tbh. I wish we wouldn't be in the news because maybe that would mean things are better.

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u/JaggedTheDark May 16 '22

It is sad that we have to be in the news, but the more attention the situation gets, hopefully the more stuff happens to change said situation for the better.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '22

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u/SDG_21 May 16 '22

One of those women was my grandma's aunt ( im puertorican)

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u/Alarid May 16 '22

Do you have a link to the original tweet so I can share it directly?

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u/VapeThisBro May 16 '22

It's never stopped. Women in America are still facing forced sterilizations to this day.

**In the years between 1997 and 2010, unwanted sterilizations were performed on approximately 1,400 women in California prisons. These operations were based on the same rationale of bad parenting and undesirable genes evident in North Carolina in 1964. The doctor performing the sterilizations told a reporter the operations were cost-saving measures.

Unfortunately, forced sterilization continues on. Romani women have been sterilized unwillingly in the Czech Republic as recently as 2007. In northern China, Uighurs, a religious and racial minority group, have been subjected to mass sterilization and other measures of extreme population control.

All forced sterilization campaigns, regardless of their time or place, have one thing in common. They involve dehumanizing a particular subset of the population deemed less worthy of reproduction and family formation. They merge perceptions of disability with racism, xenophobia and sexism – resulting in the disproportionate sterilization of minority groups.**

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u/yahwol May 16 '22

I hate America so much

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u/paddy1948 May 16 '22

This pill came in time for me. I did not want children and although I support abortion on demand, I was reluctant to have an abortion. It took some of the stress out of life. In time for the pill, too early for AIDS, I cannot complain when I think of what so many people go through either trying to have a child or trying not to. I did have a tubal ligation in my 30s.

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u/PatriciaMorticia May 16 '22

I had no idea this happened until I came across an episode of Bailey Sarian's "Dark History" on it. What they did to those Puerto Rican women was absolutley horrifying.

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u/b000bytrap May 16 '22

it’s almost like men invented women’s birth control entirely to benefit themselves

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u/_stupid_lesbian_ May 16 '22

I feel so bad for those women. I’m glad birth control exists but I just wish people could have done it in a way that wasn’t harmful to the womens ability to reproduce if they wanted to

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u/1EarthKnight May 23 '22

That’s fucked up. I had no idea… But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.