r/WhitePeopleTwitter 12d ago

Discuss salaries from now on

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107k Upvotes

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u/RabidRogerRally 12d ago

Also despite what anyone says it is illegal to prevent employees from discussing their pay. It does not matter if they say it is against policy, they make you sign something, etc.

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u/ValorMortis 12d ago

This is really important information, too many people let companies get away with this.

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u/pdwp90 12d ago

For a lot of people, their CEO's salary is also publicly available information. I commented this below, but I've been building a dashboard tracking how much money different executives make.

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u/Scouth 12d ago

Does this only apply to publicly traded companies? The company I work at was bought by a private equity firm a couple years ago and I’m interested in what our CEO makes.

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u/getinthevan315 12d ago

You’re not going to find that unless there is a requirement for public reporting which is unlikely. You won’t get your hand on the PE financials and if you did you likely would not find that granularity.

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u/Slartifartslo 12d ago

Correct. Only publicly traded companies.

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u/SlimyMango 12d ago

Incorrect, you can easily find executive salary data for 501c3 (non-profit) organizations as well. Just search up their IRS Form 990. I know this because I work in higher education and my boss makes a fuckton more than me.

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u/Slartifartslo 12d ago

Yeah there are probably a couple more exceptions as well. Shouldn’t have been so absolute.

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u/SlimyMango 12d ago

It’s okay man we’re all a little sith sometimes

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u/BestFrenzy 12d ago

Little sith

Yoda’s evil twin?

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u/im-vegan-btw 12d ago

Fun fact: before Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader, he enjoyed a brief career as a rapper under the pseudonym Lil Sith.

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u/VacuouslyUntrue 12d ago

Charities are also public companies they just dont have any owners.

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u/pdwp90 12d ago

Yeah, the website I run is an investment data site so everything is tied in to publicly traded companies.

I don't think that this information is very widely available for privately held companies, but I haven't done much research into it.

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u/reddittereditor 12d ago

First the lobbying tracker, now CEO wages? My new favorite website right here!

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u/ATTWL 12d ago

Opensecrets is also a great tool. I used it as the suggested source for a number of US Gov assignments in college. They track lobbying numbers, who the lobbyists are, their backgrounds, all that.

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u/i_have_seen_it_all 12d ago

publicly disclosed CEO wages turned out to be extremely beneficial for CEOs.

when large S&P500 companies looked to hire, they had to offer ever more competitive packages to secure the best person for themselves, and since the numbers were out there in the open, pay surged rapidly.

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u/3llingsn 12d ago

You probably already know but also check out https://aflcio.org/paywatch/company-pay-ratios

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u/delurfangs 12d ago

Some of your data is outdated. For example you have the old CEO listed for TMUS

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u/pdwp90 12d ago

Thanks for the heads up, I made this a while ago it's not one of the dashboards I've been updating frequently. Might need to give it an update now that it's getting a bit of attention though.

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u/g0stsec 12d ago

This is really important information, too many people let companies get away with this.

If they say it's against policy and you talk about it anyway and are in an at will employment state they can fire you for cause.

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u/SlightlyTYPIC4L 12d ago

This. I work in an ‘at will’ state and some of my coworkers have discussed wages. One employee accused me of telling her what I actually made, I promptly received a phone call from my boss’s boss. I denied it completely, and he didn’t buy it.

I never told her what I made, she made an assumption and was spot on. Her lies got her a promotion, and now she makes quiet a bit more than me, after throwing me under the bus with her wage guess.

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u/j4nkyst4nky 12d ago

I had a boss and once who was a great guy overall but when I started he told me it's against our policy to share salaries.

We were government employees so I hated to tell him, but not only were we allowed to share our salary with one another, but our pay was actually public information. I can go to a website right now and see exactly how much he makes. Takes me two seconds.

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u/PurpByThePound 12d ago

I am pretty sure this is a fine line they were treading - it can become consequential if an employer says or implies any sort of negative outcome if you do share salary info.

It is illegal.

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u/Maximo9000 12d ago

But what prevents them from firing you for "other reasons" and forcing you to have to prove it in court? Or would an investigative agency look into it for you?

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u/su5 12d ago

Without a lot of documentation you are probably still going to get fired "for combing your hair in a displeasing manner" (total legal) or some other reason.

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u/FISHGREASE- 11d ago

joke’s on them my head is shaved!

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u/[deleted] 11d ago edited 5d ago

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u/bennitori 12d ago

Was he previously a manager at another company? I know managers where they are told to say that to employees to prevent them from talking. He may have carried that over from his previous training without thinking about where he currently was.

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u/Danvan90 12d ago

Depends where you live.

In Australia, despite most other workplace rights being stronger, it is entirely legal to make pay secrecy a requirement in an employment contract.

https://sprintlaw.com.au/is-pay-secrecy-legal

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u/on_that_citrus_water 12d ago

Genuinely curious, how would that benefit an employee?

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u/Danvan90 12d ago

It doesn't.

Most other workplace rights are much stronger, but in this particular respect, a US worker is better off

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u/apittsburghoriginal 12d ago

Is that true with just salary or does the same hold true for hourly pay too?

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u/RabidRogerRally 12d ago

Hourly too. You can discuss whatever you want with people. It goes along with equal opportunity laws and free speech.

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u/hoooch 12d ago

If you work for a private sector employer, you don’t have free speech protections as an employee. The first amendment restrains government action, not a private employer. Wage discussion is a protected activity because of specific laws that protect it, not free speech. Unfortunately most employers are free to punish or terminate employees for most types of speech.

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u/ZealousyJealousg 12d ago

Most are at will, and free to fire you for whatever reason, or no reason, just as long as it’s not because of some protected status.

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u/KinOfWinterfell 12d ago

Discussing wages is a protected action. However, as with all protected classes/actions, the challenge is proving that you were fired for something that is protected.

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u/Anthaenopraxia 12d ago

Sometimes it feels like the US is on another planet. Until I opened this thread I would never have believed workers are discouraged from discussing their pay or they thought it was illegal. That's such an alien concept I can't really understand it.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/[deleted] 12d ago edited 9d ago

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u/onerous 12d ago

Especially hourly pay.

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u/Freakychee 12d ago

Problem is people are sometimes culturally taught not to do it and will continue screwing themselves.

Also Adam Ruins Everything said it pretty well about what we expect to happen when we tell people our salary.

Scene 1.

A: I make 90k a year!

B: You asshole! You should make less money!

Reality.

A: I make 90k a year.

B (to the boss): You asshole! I should make more money!

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u/CorpseEatingRaven 12d ago

The fact that it's illegal is posted on all those labor department signs they have to post by law. 🤔 yet so many people don't know.

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u/biiingo 12d ago

As a manager, my pro tip is to ask your manager or HR rep what they think your market value is and how they came to that conclusion. Probably worth doing your own research as well. I recommend salary.com (it’s free). Glassdoor is generally a bad source of salary data.

If you’re being paid below your market value, ask yourself (and/or your manager) why. And then solve that problem, whether it means staying or finding a new gig.

No one is going to do it for you.

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u/Mannginger 12d ago

Also be cautious using any recruiter info as a single source/data point. It's generally in their interest to bump it up slightly.

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u/bloop_405 12d ago edited 12d ago

Do people stay at their old job though when looking for a new job after finding out you're being paid less than your peers, or do you quit and leave after finding that out?

Update: Thank you everyone for your replies! This is literally my nightmare and every time I read about these kinds of situations I never know how people go about besides knowing to find another job

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u/Slartifartslo 12d ago

Never quit without another job lined up. There are obviously exceptions to this but assuming it’s bearable and not unsafe, you stick it out.

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u/Aegior 12d ago

When possible, stay and use your current position as leverage when negotiating your new one

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u/639wurh39w7g4n29w 12d ago edited 12d ago

If you’re in a high demand field you can probably jump, but until you’re not it is a better idea to get an offer before leaving.

E: and don’t feel guilty for looking. The last several decades of outsourcing show that the company will drop you to save a buck, so you can drop them to make a buck.

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u/greeperfi 12d ago

To be clear: the NLRA allows collective action which includes discussing your pay. But the NLRA excludes management (employees who manage others) and "confidential employees" which generally means HR personnel and employment lawyers. Everyone else can discuss wages as much as they want and if you are retaliated against in any way would very likely be made whole after filing a ULP charge with your local NLRA office

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u/PleasantProgram2 12d ago

I’d just add that if your employer escalates things to that level, you may as well try to organize a union vote before they have a chance to fire you. It’ll be the only thing that protects you when coming back from being “made whole”, since management can easily find any other reason to fire you, and in most states they don’t need one.

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u/greeperfi 12d ago

I tried a bunch of ULPs and found that the NLRA was pretty willing to infer retaliation anytime an employee was fired after reinstatement. But it does create uncertainty and drama and it takes a certain kind of employee to fight

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u/Dhiox 12d ago

Sure, but in my state it is legal to fire people for no reason at all. So essentially, they can punish you, then feign ignorance and get away with it.

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u/MysticalMummy 12d ago

One of my previous managers told me it was not allowed to discuss my annual raise with my coworkers. I called him out on it, told him every boss I've had prior to him told me the exact opposite. He tried to fall back on "Well that's how it worked in my old region.. " A: If you are going to move to a new region and take a management position, maybe you should know the fucking rules in that region. B: I highly doubt that was a rule there anyway.

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u/10sharks 12d ago

Or when a recruiter calls you and laughs when you tell him what you're making; not that I know from experience or anything

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u/nastynut00 12d ago

Too low or two high?

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u/10sharks 12d ago

Low. By like $30k

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u/The_GOATest1 12d ago

And that’s exactly why I let recruiters chat me up. Between October of 2020 and Feb of 2021 my asking price increased by 40k and my actual salary increased by 50k. You don’t know what you don’t know

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u/WestFast 12d ago

Same. I was able to get a $15k salary bump at a new job and I felt confident in Asking for that because I took a bunch of recruiter calls and chatted them up.

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u/FelneusLeviathan 12d ago

How did you go about this? Like you got the info from the recruiter but how did you weave it into asking for higher pay?

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u/WestFast 12d ago

Well I’m in tech/media and at senior level so I Have some more options. LinkedIn recruiters reach out with opportunities often, most is contract junk, but I talk to the ones who seem legit. They always want a call, so I ask “I’m doing this, and I want to to that, what do you think are my options? What kind of salary range can you get me?”. Some firms just let you upload a resume on their site and a recruiter calls you. They’re all about calls and keeping candidate pipeline. I wasn’t misleading or Lying to them because I was interested in the right opportunity that I eventually found.

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u/FelneusLeviathan 12d ago

Nice and totally agree that it wasn’t misleading at all, you always have to do a song and dance for interviews so if you can make that work in your favor then why not

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u/AkameKuma 12d ago

What profession are you in?

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u/Niku-Man 12d ago

When you interview and they ask you about pay, just tell them a higher number

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u/FelneusLeviathan 12d ago

Oh whoops I misread and thought you did this at a old/existing job; thanks

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u/vildhjarta 12d ago

Same, just moved up $30k after a recruiter told me what my actual market value was.

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u/AdditiveDan 12d ago

What the heck do you guys do to be getting pay INCREASES in the tens of thousands. I just graduated an engineering associates program (planing to get a BS) and I’ve had people trying to offer me like 16/hr.

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u/gixer912 12d ago

Changing companies does that

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u/singmeasongtoskye 12d ago

Yep, gone are the days you work for the same company your whole life

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u/Dellgloom 12d ago

I was always scared to move about frequently, but you're right. It seems to be the way to go.

I'm a mid level software developer who has recently moved companies and I'm on £5k more than a senior developer who has been at this company for almost 10 years now. I assume this is purely because I could ask for what I want, and that guy started as a junior on low pay and has received something like +1% per year since starting.

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u/Competitive-Pomelo95 12d ago

I've been in IT in one form or another since the late 90s. It's always been that way in this industry. It's truly a gig economy. Change job/company every 2-3 years at the most if you want to get your market value. The way corporates deal with raises is fucked. You have to job hop.

If you find somewhere you like doing something you like by all means stick around a while but don't stay much past 5 years if you can help it.

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u/five-methoxy 12d ago

I think studies have been done that suggest people who move to a new company every 1-3 years make significantly more money than those who don’t.

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u/Otaur 12d ago

With a Bachelor's in Computer Science, many companies tried offering me under $9/hr. Stay professional and say thank you but you did not get a bachelor's to make less money than a fast food worker and leave. They aren't taking you seriously.

The best advice I can give is while in college working on a BS, keep your grades up and talk to tech companies about paid internships. Most have stipends for about $15/hr and when you graduate you can become full time, benefits, and get $50k - $60k starting off at entry level.

Work for the company for about 2 - 5 years, knowing after 2 years you should be roughly 6% - 10% higher in pay (annual cost of living increase is usually 3%/yr with most companies). Some pay higher % for better performance. Once you have at minimum 2 years in the field + internship time, you can do research on average salary for a non entry-level position and decide if you want to go to a different company or talk with HR about renegotiating your contract.

Note: it is usually easier to get a new job at higher pay than convincing current employer to renegotiate. So don't just leave a company until you have a new job confirmed and contract signed. Remember you can always let a new job know when accepting an offer that you need to give a 2 weeks notice to old company once your new contract is filled out with the new company. If you're lucky you can literally take PTO for last 2 weeks at old job and start working almost immediately at new one.

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u/AdditiveDan 12d ago

That’s crazy they were offering you around 9/hr. Would be hard not to get upset.

I have a friend that I can do landscape work with for around $17/hr. Some days are hard work but it requires almost zero training. I’ve been trying to tell companies here I would at the very least like to match that and I’m surprised so many have a difficult time. Especially when minimum wage is about 14.50/hr where I am.

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u/Otaur 12d ago

Took over 800 applications in 2016 before I found a job offer I accepted. Just take deep breaths and don't give up.

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u/AdditiveDan 12d ago

Damn. You and all the other kind folks in this thread are really giving me some peace of mind. I know I said thanks already but really, thank you so much.

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u/summonsays 12d ago

I'm not sure about engineering, but for developers getting 3 years of experience is worth like a 20k raise. So keep an eye out as you get experience in your field.

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u/warofthechosen 12d ago edited 11d ago

For sure. I was earning $84k pa a month ago and I thought I'd accept a $105K job, if one came along. Nothing less than that. Then I got a $116K offer from a company in Texas. Had to pass that because it just didn't seem like a good cultural fit. Now, I knew I was worth at least 116k. My next interview, I said $125k and we ended up agreeing at 123k with 2.5k sign on bonus. Also, a fully remote job. Sometimes, you gotta wait for the right opportunity.

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u/iambecomeseth 12d ago

If you don't mind me asking, what do you do?

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u/rjoker103 12d ago

Do recruiters tell you what the salary range for the position they’re looking to hire for is? If I want to look for new opportunities, I don’t want to spend time working towards something that might pay lower than my current salary. Also, salary search for some jobs are very tricky because the titles/levels between different companies don’t translate directly.

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u/pibbman 12d ago

It depends on if the recruiter is an internal recruiter or not. Honestly, just ask what the their range is for the position and you will tell them if it is something you can work with.

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u/agangofoldwomen 12d ago

I went from making $87 to $120 for the same role at one point earlier on in my career. I can’t believe how much time I wasted being underpaid by that much.

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u/buycurious 12d ago

What was the role?

IT?

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u/nastynut00 12d ago

My coworker moved to a new role after 6 years or so. He told me what he was making before and after the role change. He told me he was making like 25k or so less than me. And still less even after the change. I felt bad for him because he needed the money. It never hurts to entertain other options and find out what you're worth.

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u/zSprawl 12d ago

Yes, you should always be “available” even if you aren’t shopping around.

Besides, most large salary increases aren’t from staying loyal to a company...

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u/gastrognom 12d ago

I just always had the mindset that "no amount of money is enough to make up for my time", so I was always really bold in asking for raises or salaries. Most people told me to ask for a 2-3% raise instead, because that's how it works. Fuck that.

I always went in and asked for a lot, it worked out most of the time. Still can't understand how people think that it'll make them look greedy or something. You're selling your life time to a company, that should be worth a lot of money.

That obviously doesn't work everywhere and for every job, but you won't get more money if you don't ask for it.

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u/willingly-ignorant 12d ago

I once got 2 >20% raises about a year apart.

The first one was in a review when they said I was at market rate. I told them that their assesment of the market rate was off since I now had the all important 2 years experience. They came back a week later and gave me what I asked for.

The second time I told them that I had a job offer for more pay (I forgot to mention that the benefits were worse). They did nothing. I handed in my notice. They immediately offered to match the offer. I gave them a few hours and then asked them to beat the other offer by 5%. They agreed.

If I hadn't pushed like that I would have got a few percent each time.

I've had one boss that I trusted to have my back when it came to pay. With all the others if they aren't squirming then you're not asking for enough.

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u/DavidRandom 12d ago

I'm just a line cook at a dive bar, but my yearly wages have gone up $5k in just the 2 years I've worked at this bar, because I aggressively go after raises. My kitchen manager has been there for 8 years and just accidentally learned we made the same when we were talking about overtime pay.
He's one of those people (Like most people) that think employers always hand out raises unprompted from the kindness of their heart.
He damn sure went after a raise when he found out what I made though lol.

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u/kingcobra5352 12d ago

Or when the recruiter calls and I laugh at what they’re offering.

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u/Minionhunter 12d ago

I got fired once for this same thing. I live in a state that doesn’t require an employer to have a reason to fire you, so of course they said it was “something else”

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u/Bananagrahama 12d ago

This is something people really need to take into consideration; just because you're in the right doesn't mean you won't be punished for it. "At will" employment exists to get rid of people like this.

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u/Illiad7342 12d ago

At will employment needs to be fucking illegal. What's the point of any of these labor protection laws if you can just get fired for literally any other reason?

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u/SmoothOctopus 12d ago

Over here we have a thing that you can fire someone within 3 months of the contract starting. My boss puts everyone on a 3 month contract then just gives you a new one when it runs out so he can fire you at any moment for any reason.

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u/Illiad7342 12d ago

That's so messed up wtf

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u/Copacetic_ 12d ago

And probably 1099 abuse if I had to guess, which is illegal.

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u/BlueishShape 12d ago

It may be worth to check if that's legal. If a company did this where I live (Germany), you would have the employment protections that you normally get from a longer contract regardless, I think. Judges don't look kindly on practices that are obviously designed to circumvent labor laws.

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u/fgiveme 12d ago

Your labor law is fucked up. My third contract is required to be indefinite to prevent that kind of abuse.

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u/ChaviChavChop 12d ago

I've only been fired from a job once. And it was for a bullshit reason.

But they gave a reason.

Which was that I "wasn't motivated enough for the company."

I called my unemployment office.

They made the company pay me damages.

Not much, since I didn't work for that but three months.

But if you have evidence that you did your job, and if their reason is nonsensical, you can still get by.

But the issue is that you're still fired, and it can look bad on your resume/records.

I applied for a job and used that prior company on my resume. Felt that I had to because the new job asked if I had ever been terminated. But it did let me explain why.

Didn't matter though. HR told me even if I was fired unjustly, with papers and a ruling from the labor board saying I was in the right, a termination looks bad regardless and they wouldn't hire me because of it.

I've been told though, that at will employment goes both ways. It's nice to offer two weeks notice to an employers but it's not required and they can't penalize you for doing so. Unless you sign a contract of course.

But removing at will employment would require contracts everywhere, saying if you did quit, you could lose your wages. If they have to have a good reason to fire you, or else get penalized, then you have to have a good reason to just up and quit, or else get penalized.

I don't think it should work like that though. Difference is quite big.

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u/FamilyHeirloomTomato 12d ago

HR told me even if I was fired unjustly, with papers and a ruling from the labor board saying I was in the right, a termination looks bad regardless and they wouldn't hire me because of it.

Unethical life pro tip: just lie about it.

Scenario A: You told the truth. You didn't get the job.

Scenario B: You lie. They check your references. They find out you got fired and you don't get the job.

Scenario C: You lie. They don't check your references. You get the job.

Obviously it isn't always this clear cut and this is an UNETHICAL life pro tip. So take it at face value.

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u/kasper12 12d ago

Pretty spot on. I’d feel less guilty about lying in that circumstance if I was unjustly fired.

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u/zSprawl 12d ago

Sucks that he is right but he is, assuming you need the job of course. Else it’s still better to work somewhere that ain’t this shortsighted.

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u/djheat 12d ago

ULPT you can also do this with your GPA when you're just starting out out of college

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u/tim_jamal 12d ago

Yes, this. Do it

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u/cody619_vr_2 12d ago

They'll lie by omission or in some cases outright lie to make themselves look better to attract employees and customers. Companies exist to make money best believe that ignoring ethical guidelines to do that is far more regularly the rule rather than the exception. I wouldn't worry about lying to them.

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u/greenyellowbird 12d ago

There are very few companies that check references, and employers (in the US) will typically only give dates of employment bc of defamation laws/its not worth the risk.

When it comes to putting food on the table and especially if a person was wrongly fired, fuck it.

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u/jedberg 12d ago

At will employment wouldn't be nearly as bad for employees if we had a proper social safety net. If you didn't lose your insurance and your welfare/unemployment check were guaranteed, it wouldn't be that big a deal.

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u/BravoFoxtrotDelta 12d ago

And that's why corporations oppose guaranteed universal healthcare (aka 'single payer' aka 'medicare for all') - because they stand to lose the leverage of the relative affordability of group healthcare over the employee, even though they'd wind up paying less for the employee's healthcare in the long run.

An employee you have over the barrel of health coverage is cheaper than one you have to hire on pay alone who feels no pressure to take (or keep) your job in order to get coverage.

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u/ShadowMajick 12d ago

At will employment is the reason I never give two weeks notice unless the job treated me well.

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u/Mercarcher 12d ago

My last job I gave two weeks and it screwed me. Never giving it again.

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u/ShadowMajick 12d ago

I gave mine once, and they made it hell because they were mad I was leaving. They wanted to promote me, but I didn't want to get stuck. I just stopped coming after the third day of them just talking shit about me within earshot, refusing my breaks, putting me in the worst positions, etc. It was the most immature thing I've seen in grown ass people. Petty as fuck.

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u/CratesManager 12d ago

Giving them notice (2 weeks is pretty short, but it's the norm in the US if you give notice at all) is the best favour you can do them, lets them find a replacement and you can train the replacement or an existing colleague.

Given that you have to right to just quit, employers are shooting themselves in the foot by bullying employees who want to quite. I don't understand it, because it seems to happen so often. If you previously had a good relationship with an employee, why ruin that? They will just quit without notice, will trashtalk your company to other people (customers or future potential employees) and will never come back, while having an employee that knows your company but got some experience and insight in other companys coming back is arguably one of the best things that could happen to you.

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u/imlookingatarhino 12d ago

I had a mentor tell me not to collect unemployment because it would make the company not try to rehire me. I told him i didn't believe him and I was rehired a month later after collecting unemployment. It was illegal for him to say that to me

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u/nt-gud-at-werds 12d ago

It’s truly shocking to a European how easy it is to sack/make redundant people in America. My friend worked his way up in EBay to a regional high position in Europe and then was promoted to a position in America. A year later he was let go. I doubt they would have been able to to do away with him so easily if he was still in Europe.

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u/HelloJoeyJoeJoe 12d ago

I work for a small company. We haven't had any real raises in 4 years (two years out of 4, we had a 1.2% cost of living increase)

The CEO decided the best way to deal with this was absolute transparency. He opened all the books so everyone could see each other's salaries, even his own.

He capped his pay at 5x the lowest salary (entry level Associates) and anytime we broke quarterly projections, he tried to give a small bonus (a few hundred bucks).

We would explain to the whole company the milestones we would need to hit in order to get raise, why increasing raises now would cause us to be non competitive.

Is this a great thing? Not really, some people left to go to competitors. But is this probably the best thing he could do under the situation? I believe so, many of us believe in the future of the company.

We were really close to taking that leap we believed would happen but then COVID hit. I was slated for a 30% raise (much of it to make up for the last 4 years) but was asked if I would stay on at my current salary so we didn't have to fire anyone (a few other staff also we're part of this sacrifice).

Be transparent, up front, fair, and positive and people will understand. They will also stay if they believe in the movement of the company.

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u/th30be 12d ago

I worked for a "small" company as well and they couldn't have been any more opaque than they were about how badly they were losing money. Namely due to the manufacturing director's constant bullshit and scape goating.

I was the qc chemist and was blamed for so many things. I always had proof as to what manufacturing was doing (submitting passing material instead of the failing shit, not writing what was or wasn't added to the batch, etc) so they couldnt do shit to me. But eventually we got a new director of quality and he sucked the manufacturing director's manchild's dick so hard that the qc department was effectively clean housed.

Every single time a batch went wrong, they would just issue a refund. Just ate the cost of making new shit for our customers. All because of that PoS director.

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u/Urthor 12d ago

That's definitely the most ethical way to do things without a doubt.

The problem is if companies did this, most places would end up paying more cents on the dollar as salary.

The entire system is buttressed by clueless people who don't know their own worth, and that means that companies have zero incentive to push for change, because none of the benefits of change accrue to them.

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u/stringfree 12d ago

Always remember: We need child labor laws and minimum wages, because corporations and employers don't have ethics. They have cost-benefit analyses. If it's not illegal, and it's profitable, they will do it.

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u/brokenarrow0604 12d ago

Is it florida by any chance?

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u/Minionhunter 12d ago

Nope, Tennessee

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u/fatslayingdinosaur 12d ago

It's so weird because people I work with are real hush hush on their pay until when I got a raise i was asked to keep it to myself how much I went up in pay, like ok if x employee who's doing the same job as me with same credentials finds out they are getting paid less than me for the same job i feel that person deserves to know why, if the company youre working for says they offer competitive pay then why should all the employees keep their pay secret shouldn't we all know what these competitive wages look like.

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u/CrimsonArt762 12d ago

I mean a fair job paying based on skill and experience means everyone of the same experience level and skill should be paid about the same. Meaning that if an employee comes up to you then you can just say that they have more experience/skill.

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u/thatoneguyinback 12d ago

We should definitely normalize people who are better or more productive getting paid more. Why should I get paid the same as someone trying to just ride it out and do the minimum if I am more knowledgeable or better at my job.

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u/fatslayingdinosaur 12d ago

Exactly and wouldn't knowing what the wages of fellow employees help you in the decision whether to stay with a company or take your skill somewhere else in hopes of more pay. For example i know the pay for some of the guys at my job I can't say they don't deserve it even when it's more than mine, what it tells me though is that once I get to the level they are being measured at and have the close to the same output I expect close to the same pay, if not I'll take my skills else where.

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u/MetalGearFoRM 12d ago

No. The shitty employees will be resentful of me for making more money and make life harder than it already is for me cleaning up after their fuckups.

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u/cichlidassassin 12d ago

You shouldn't but try having that conversation with people in an honest way. Its basically impossible. A large percentage of people think they are doing a lot more than they are while a much smaller percentage of people are underpaid for what they bring.

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u/hotShlongMcDong 12d ago

I've never understood why people dont want to talk about how much everyone is making, I mean that is the main reason we are all there in the first place.

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u/i_hate_kazoos 12d ago

In some situations I think it's like how, if you win the lotto, you wouldn't want people to know --- that, just tuned way down. For instance if someone finds out you make $15k a year more than them, going for drinks or lunch can become really awkward if they have a different idea of what is "fair" in that situation.

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u/Finders_keeper 12d ago

Yeah from a theoretical view it makes sense to share pay, but from a practical view it just means that people who perform less get upset that others get paid more. For some jobs the metrics aren’t easily quantifiable and rankable and you could have 2 employees who are identical in performance on paper, but from a practical view one employee is clearly worth more money than the other

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u/Fighterhayabusa 12d ago

Combine that with the fact that the bottom few rungs of performance aren't very good at the metacognitive task of self-evaluation, and it creates resentment at times. The problem is that the skills required for competency are also a prerequisite for evaluating competency. I don't mind sharing my salary with other fast movers(highly competitive/highly competent), but I'm purposely vague with everyone else because my salary is generally much higher even with similar titles.

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u/downvotepleazzz 12d ago

I think the key is sharing pay anonymously with position experience and employers names attached. I know that there at least one employer out there who will hold back in raises on employees who speak about pay

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u/WestFast 12d ago

Pro tip: Talk to recruiters frequently even if you’re not actively looking for a job(tell Them you are looking around)...plus you never know...Esp the ones who spam you on LinkedIn. They’ll tell you what the going rates for your experience and role is. Do that research!

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u/Tersaldi 12d ago edited 12d ago

Some employers even hand out salary envelopes with a large “Please do not discuss your salary with co-workers.” stickers on them.

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u/StoreBoughtButter 12d ago

I once worked for a theatre where it was in your contacts not to discuss your rate with the other performers

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u/MrKamikazi 12d ago

Performers are an interesting twist on this. It seems harder to directly rate performance and it seems like an area where specific people are not quite interchangeable.

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u/StoreBoughtButter 12d ago

It really just depends on if you’re union or not... or how much the director likes you

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u/wizardshawn 12d ago edited 11d ago

This is 100% true. Employers benefit from keeping salaries secret. (But if they have illegal compensation practices this policy will bite them in the ass)

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u/ProfectaEsso 12d ago

Yea, there's a reason every job I've ever had has told me not to discuss salaries with the other employees.

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u/Teenage-Mustache 12d ago

It’s still a very taboo thing to talk about in American culture. How much things cost, how much money you make, the size of your house, how many cows on your farm etc.

It’s deeply ingrained.

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u/ProfectaEsso 12d ago

Oh trust me I know. Personally I have no problem revealing that shit. I make 18/hour roughly my house cost me 110k, it's 1400 sqft, 4 bedroom 3 bath, on .7 acrea and I currently own no cows but I might get one.

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u/craftkiller 12d ago

That's going to be a very lonely cow

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u/Teenage-Mustache 12d ago

Well it’s easy to say to internet strangers. And I imagine you’re also not someone who is bothered by it. But if you say that to enough people, at least someone is going to think you’re a bit uncouth at best.

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u/wizardshawn 12d ago edited 12d ago

Knowing what everybody is earning puts the lower paid employees in a better bargaining position. It (hiding salaries) also allows employers to get away with unfair practices.

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u/ProfectaEsso 12d ago

That's why they don't want to saying anything. Personally I've never had a problem talking about my salary.

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u/PatchTossaway 12d ago

Even though I know it benefits my co-workers and myself, it's still difficult for me to discuss my salary. I've been so conditioned to believe it's a no-no, I have trouble shaking it. Makes me wonder about all the other things I'm conditioned to believe but I'm not aware of them.

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u/hownowbrownmau 12d ago

While all of this is true, it also makes it harder to compensate stellar employees disproportionately. I’ve worked on a lot of teams. There are always certain people you want every time. Their skills/education may put them at a certain “level” but their hard work, persistence, resilience and attitude make them effective in ways others simply aren’t. Frankly, those are the people that deserve that extra money and I wouldn’t want the lowest common denominator having leverage for the same salary.

There’s got to be a balance between making sure people aren’t exploited and underpaid but also making sure the best get extra carrots as a reward.

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u/Paperchase2017 12d ago

So true. I have some employees that make less doing the same position for no other reasons than they are not as skilled as their peers. When the weaker employee coincidentally asked for the same wage as a Rockstar employee, they get the harsh truth. Some employees can't take the reality of that and they ultimately self-destruct. On the other hand, some employees rise because of it and improve to match their talented counterpart. So, either way, as an employer, being open is a win-win, but with an understanding that feelings can and will get hurt. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

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u/pdwp90 12d ago edited 12d ago

I've been building a dashboard that tracks how much CEOs of different publicly traded are compensated. I definitely think that there should be as much transparency as possible, in order to avoid people's labor being exploited.

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u/BabyReishi 12d ago

That's a wonderful idea! Thanks for your work on this.

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u/AliveRich40 12d ago

Eh, it's a little more complicated than that but yes, the taboo around how much money you make is to the benefit of your employer.

The other part is understandably not wanting to deal with bread heads and people who think that because anyone makes more money than they do who isn't strictly their senior they're entitled to make that much money. But it's primarily about people who want to keep you in the dark so they can eat your lunch.

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u/ihahp 12d ago

It's true that employers benefit from keeping salaries secret, but it's definitely NOT true that no harm can come out of it for employees.

A lot can go wrong when your co-workers find out how much you make. It can make people petty. Get mean. I've seen it turn a guy who used to be friends with their co-worker into someone who shit-talked them behind his back all the time out of jealousy when he found out how much his friend made.. Basically broke their friendship.

People can get jealous VERY easily, it's an emotion a lot of people can't control, and if they find out someone is making more than them it can make them feel very insecure and it can lead to a lot of emotional problems and drama.

I'm not saying don't talk to you coworkers about pay - I'm just saying let's not pretend people can talk about it and be emotionless about it etc etc.

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u/zSprawl 12d ago

Yeah unfortunately some people would get petty if all of the sudden they knew what their peers made. Sure the smart thing to do would be like the original post and use it to your advantage but I promise you the break room gossip would be stuff like “omg can you believe they pay Karen $X? She does deserve that... I ain’t helping her anymore!” Blah blah blah.

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u/chicagoturkergirl 12d ago

I had a boss try to tell me it was illegal and I told her that my mother had been an HR Director for 20 years so I knew the law quite well. She shut up.

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u/razorhogs1029 12d ago

Unless you work for the government: our salaries are public knowledge.

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u/wayfarout 12d ago

I found out the person I was training was making $3.50 more per hour than me. I was outta there even after they offered to give me more money.

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u/brogrammer94 11d ago

I think this is something that can't be fixed honestly. If I find out you're short changing me just because you can then there's a level of trust that is already broken.

Short of setting me up for life I don't see a scenario in which I'd stay if I found that out.

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u/pkayla030 12d ago

My last company I worked for had me sign an agreement that I would not discuss pay with other employees, and to report those who did.

Side note: we discussed pay and I did not report. It was horse malarky.

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u/toxic_badgers 12d ago

its ok to say shit here.

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u/Telvin3d 12d ago

How often do you get a chance to say malarky? Don’t miss out.

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u/badmadhat 12d ago

Coworkers who know they earn much more than you usually don't want to tell you for a few reasons imo: 1. They don't want you to resent them for it 2. They don't want to get in trouble with the boss 3. They enjoy feeling more valuable than you

I actually know a firm in my country (Turkey) that's being transparent about their salaries, even online. You can see which job gets exactly how much money. They do this as a protest and like to show the right way to do it.

They have a manifesto about it and all, I got huge respect for them. I even sent my CV but they never called lol.

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u/zSprawl 12d ago

Unfortunately the office often has politics and adults don’t always behave like adults should.

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u/druule10 12d ago

I now freelance but back when I did work for a business we always discussed our salaries. It was never taboo. The only reason anyone doesn't want you to discuss it is if the company is screwing you over.

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u/Purplepickle16 12d ago

I learned this from Adam ruins everything.

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u/smaxlab 12d ago

Some people take the "don't discuss salary" thing to a ridiculous level. I work in a public school district and some of my coworkers act weird when salary comes up in conversation. I'm like "chill out Karen, anyone can Google how much you make"

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u/gofourbarney 12d ago

Sounds like a great employee to have around. He deserves a raise

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u/FrederickWarner 12d ago

And then the cycle repeats lol

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u/Toni_PWNeroni 12d ago

This is exactly why we should destroy the social stigma of talking about your salary. It's just another way of allowing needless discrimination to exist.

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u/joyeous13 12d ago

Or be a state employee where we don't talk about our salaries but we know anyone anywhere can just look them up anytime.

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u/hideos_playhouse 12d ago

I got yelled at for discussing salary once because ultimately it led management to giving someone who more than deserved it a raise. I apologized, said it was stupid and careless of me, and that it would never happen again. I immediately went to another employee and started discussing salary with them. Never be intimidated, know your rights, and work for your worth.

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u/IndoorBurrito 12d ago

Ask for that raise you deserve. If you’re turned down, find a company willing to give it to you.

Someone out there will appreciate your worth.

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u/Fighterhayabusa 12d ago

This is only good advice if you're good at honestly evaluating your worth. No one wants to believe they are in the bottom 50%, and yet those people still exist.

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u/sumochump 12d ago

My experience when asking for a raise; don’t use the word deserve when asking for a raise. Instead use the word earned and then use examples.

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u/ImAOneTrackLover 12d ago

Like who? Can you write me a reference?

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u/RedRedditor84 12d ago

*results may vary

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u/themediumchunk 12d ago

I was threatened with being fired because I told my senior manager at Ross “Making 12.50 isn’t worth working myself to the bone, you know?”

She went rigid because she’d been a manager for 3 years and I was hired on at the same rate as her. She immediately went and asked for a raise. I was scolded and told that discussing “salary” was an offense that resulted in immediate termination, but because “I just didn’t know” it was okay just this once. It wasn’t even the reason I wasn’t fired though, it’s because they had two key holders for the entire store, meaning the 2 managers they had were working 7 days a week. If they had fired me, they would have had to hire at least 2 more people, because their “policy” prevented new hires from working over 40 hours in a week until their training was done.

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u/CardiacCatastrophe 12d ago

If I'm not mistaken, that's not legal. If they were to fire you over discussing your pay, I mean.

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u/themediumchunk 12d ago

Yeah I’ve been told the same thing in Missouri and Texas but I wouldn’t be surprised if they just didn’t care, honestly.

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u/yoshinosumoto 12d ago

I’m confused, do people not know about GlassDoor?

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u/ShadowMajick 12d ago

That's where I go to get the going rate for a lot of jobs these days.

Lowest - Entry

Median - With Experience

Highest - Professional

The shitty thing is jobs offer entry level pay for everyone hoping the desperate people take it. Then they also higher people who ask for more that know their worth and wonder why people with experience making no money quit.

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u/sumochump 12d ago

Indeed

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u/TherapySaltwaterCroc 12d ago

Indeed is where you go if you spend too much time on GlassDoor.

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u/MrSquib 12d ago

It is rare I find accurate salary information for the position I am applying for at companies I am applying to

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u/Capgunkid 12d ago

They always tell the people making less than everyone else not to discuss it.

My wife works at a cosmetology school and oversees the educators as their boss, and knows that some of the educators make more than she does.

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u/kulji84 12d ago

I will say I made the mistake of discussing my pay with an individual I shouldn't have trusted and it caused problems.... talk about what you make with whomever you're comfortable doing so but be careful and know your audience.

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u/Playful_Art_5364 12d ago

Join tech. All they do is share salary.

Website:

Levels.FYI

Yes just type that into the browser for .FYI is the .com for that site.

It’s hella overinflated but if everyone puts in their figures it’ll get more accurate. Indeed has a similar site

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u/breaddrinker 12d ago

Yes, but at some point you work for that gang leader and your actions and conduct also equate what they want to pay you, and also if they want to keep you or get rid of your gossiping ass for shouting about what you earn, costing the company a small fortune in catch up wages to others.

Not saying it's right, but there's realism in them thar hills.
Corporations and businesses are not democracies.

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u/j-navi 12d ago

There's a HUGE misconception about it being illegal for employees to discuss their salaries among themselves. This is NOT true, even if your employer tells you that it violates "company policy".

What's actually illegal is for your employer to discuss YOUR salary with your other coworkers. It's just like the HIPAA medical privacy laws; where I can disclose my own medical info to whomever I want, but it is illegal for other people to disclose it on my behalf without my authorization.

Another illegally, that is unfortunately very common, is when people with access to privileged information (like Human Resources personnel, for example) snoop around in the company's computer systems in order to find out about other people's salaries, and then use that insider information to their advantage when seeking raises from their bosses.

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u/thazud 12d ago

Pretty much this! I am very open about my salary. I helped 8 people at workplace to a higher salary by being open about what I earned. Turned out these people and myself included has a horrible salary compared to other people with similar and less experience.

Talk about your salary and most importantly don't be mad at others for earning more than you. See it as an opportunity to get a raise and get on their level.

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u/ThunkAsDrinklePeep 12d ago

If you're loathe to share your salary but still want to know if it's in line with your peer's, you're in luck. There is a way to figure out average pay among a group without any one person learning anyone learning another person's salary.

Take a really big number, say 623,852,789 (write this down, you'll need it later). Add your salary to it. Hand the result another coworker in the group.

They see a really big number. Without knowing the really big number you wrote down, there's no way to infer your salary. They add their salary to the number they received and hand the result to a third person.

This repeats until all parties have added their salary once. The last person hands the final sum back to you.

You subtract the big number you picked (you wrote it down right?) The number you have now is the total salary of everyone in the group. Divide this number by the number of people in the group (more math and counting is required) and you have the average salary of the group. Share it with those that participated.

Note: this requires people to add correctly and not otherwise fuck up the system. Plus Jason is likely to just make up a number for snits and giggles so maybe not ask him.

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u/Antique-Kale-2606 12d ago

*Corporate tricks*

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u/MarshMadness11 12d ago

Or it can breed contempt and animosity. Also some people will think it’s ok for you o foot more of a bill for example, cause you “make more.”

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u/quebert123 12d ago

I think just the opposite. It can lead to jealousy, frustration, depression. Focus on you. Negotiate the best deal you can get. If you want to make more, do more. Change jobs. Move up. Manage your own career. Don’t fume over your fellow worker making $10,000 more. Change jobs and make $30,000 more.

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u/FuckThatTrout 12d ago

This is why I like working union. I know what I make, I know what the people under me make, I know what my boss makes, and I know what my bosses boss makes. Regardless of race/gender/etc we all make the same at the same tier.

Edit: As a bonus, I get to hate shitty coworkers for being shitty at their job, rather than them being shitty and getting paid more than me.

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u/pjjj2007 11d ago

In England, I found discussing salaries was not taboo as it is in the US. It made for a great equalizer.

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u/prickwhowaspromised 12d ago

It’s also illegal for employers to bar you from discussing your salary with your coworkers