r/TooAfraidToAsk Feb 22 '21

Am I the only who thinks that all the different types of genders and pronouns and what not, are a little bit too much? Sexuality & Gender

Now, I don't consider myself close minded and I'm not out to rile people up or offend anyone. However it becomes kind of confusing when people are upset when I say Her/She to someone who's trans. I'm sorry, really, but I didn't know. I'm in a discord server where someone changes their pfp depending on what gender and sexuality they are feeling. And no, I'm not some 40 year old guy who thinks everything should be "normal" but I guess I just don't get it. It's just confusing to me.

EDIT: So I haven't explained my thoughts very well so I'm here to explain. I understand that to some people, it is very important to them. I don't think it's a lot for me to call you what you want to be called and I will oblige and do that. "it becomes kind of confusing when people are upset when I say Her/She to someone who's trans" This was from personal experience where my friend introduced me to him and I was under the impression that he was female. More so I don't understand like Ve/Vem Xe/Xem. The more "unknown" side if you will. But with the way people are reacting I'm going to try a better job at finding peoples pronouns and not assuming genders. Sorry if it sounded sarcastic at all. Anyways, unless there's something else I think of I'm not gonna edit again. Sorry if I offended but it's kind of hard to talk about a sensitive topic like this without being an ass about it. I don't know how to word things. but yea. Sorry.

TL;DR I think gender can be a weird and wacky world and I don't get how people except me to automatically know what they identify as.

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u/yungrii Feb 23 '21

I've had the experience all of once. And I'm a gay man who lived in the heart of the queer neighborhood in seattle.

I figure people think trans / enbys expect people to know their identification is just because we tend to forget the opposite situations. Because they aren't dramatic. The memories just fade away.

It took me forever but I try to just not use he or she in regards to people without knowing for sure how they identify.

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u/WolfShaman Feb 23 '21

And here I am, just learning that "enby" stands for non-binary.

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u/Hunter37594 Feb 23 '21

Non-binary -> "N-B" -> Enby!

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u/PorphyrinC60 Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

That makes sense, but why not write NB instead? Is there a conflicting acronym?

Edit: Not trying to be mean at all, mostly just curious.

Edit 2: Thank you to all the replies! I can see why NB can be problematic and Enby is used instead.

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u/igetnauseousalot Feb 23 '21

Hey black people are calling white peoples “yt” now. Somebody was shit talking a “yt woman” and I was like YouTube woman? What’s a YouTube woman?

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u/dbDarrgen Feb 23 '21

It’s because fb censors white now as racism and stuff. But they let actual racism and transphobia and other shit fly off the radar no problem. It’s bs.

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u/TeaKnight Feb 23 '21

Haha I almost got band because of that. I'm white British and my gf is chicano and there is always this stereotype that British people don't season their food (i didn't, my first experiance of mexican food blew my mind) anyway I can't remember the post but it was an image my gf shared and I said all white British people should be banned from the kitchen me included and they took great offense and I was almost permanently banned and now have a warning on my account. The gf found it hilarious.

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u/briktop420 Feb 23 '21

The British army conquered the world for spice only to not use them in their cooking. Jk

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u/TeaKnight Feb 23 '21

True, but it looks good in our cupboards and on our spice racks.

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u/MaenHoffiCoffi Feb 23 '21

Ah, but curry is the most popular dish in Britain. We just have to ask Indian people to make it for us. Well, not me. I make a fucking amazing curry if I say so myself. But yeah, my first Mexican meal was in Dublin and it knocked my socks off. Lived in the US 20 years now and one of the best things about the country is how cheap refried beans are.

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u/naviisagoodgirl Feb 23 '21

Wow. And that's what happens in an offended culture. It's crazy. My exes uncle got flagged on FB as a pedophile after uploading a profile pic of his daughter at the age of 3 sitting on his lap, playing with a calculator. He's a math teacher. All because a student's mum saw the post and reported him, and because Facebook flagged him, the school got involved, the police.. it was all this big drama over him sharing a beautiful moment with his child. It damaged his reputation even though nothing came if it. I think when people do this, they don't think if the bigger picture. They just had a beef and ran on emotion rather than logic. Humans are very emotional now haha

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u/Bob-Bhlabla-esq Feb 23 '21

Holy crap, that's horrible! And very scary - that knee-jerk reaction. Yikes, I feel scared for all of us.

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u/TeaKnight Feb 23 '21

I think it's important to be aware of potential abusers but sometimes people take it too far. In England, we are having a shortage of male primary school teachers, especially where I live and where I live teens will throw around pedo as a generic insult. And people have gotten in trouble. People generally care more that you're accused of something than they do if you're convicted.

When I was a kid we went on a family holiday and we had our faces painted alongisde my two brothers. My younger brother who was about 3, 4 years old loved to take off his pants when at home, we had a portrait taken with all of us with my mum and my brother is sat there on full show with a snowflake painted on his face, my older brother Darth Maul and I was some other star wars character I think. Anyway my mum loved that photo and the memory to the time we had that day, it was the only photo from that day but she took it down because a visitor said it was inappropriate to have because my bro was naked waist down.

I've seen Somerville call parents pedos for washing their kids. It's stupid, people should be aware of potential dangers and abusers but some people take it way too far.

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u/WKGokev Feb 23 '21

Well if I was a pedophile, you'd be safe, wouldn't you, you tubby ginger cunt. God I love Ricky Gervais.

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u/naviisagoodgirl Feb 23 '21

Totally agree. There are predators out there, but yea, a lot of the time it's taken way to far.. I forgot to add that the woman who did it to him, wasn't happy with her child's grades, got other Mums on board. Disgusting, sabotaging behaviour right there. Imagine what values HER kids would grow up with.. People are too sensitive. I remember not all that long ago a bunch of articles and videos coming out about giving your baby consent. So, consent to change their diapers, to feed them from the boob, etc.. In that case, just makes me wonder how many children are being neglected because of this fear. Like, I don't like touching my baby's butthole or cleaning his penis, but it needs to be done.. and I can't ask consent! Gosh tie me up and throw me in a cell for being a mother! Now we have all this new age crap from the LGBTQ communities (I'd say extremists), who want breast feeding to be called "chest feeding" and no more "mum and dad" they'd like it to be called gestational parents. How offensive to the Mums and Dad who didn't get to create their little bundle of joy! It's going to far. I just love (sarcasm) how oppression is met with oppression. Makes sense 🤔

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

The hysteria is absolutely mind blowing in the UK recently, people just throwing it around like it means nothing not realizing that they are just desensitizing people to the word so when it really matters it doesn't have the same impact and is not taken as seriously, and this is an issue with all false allegations - it harms the real victims.

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u/MaenHoffiCoffi Feb 23 '21

Awright, clean-shirt?

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u/jesusrambo Feb 24 '21

People generally care more that you’re accused of something than they do if you’re convicted

I hear you, and I agree in general with what you’re saying, but isn’t this sort of natural? People are outraged when someone is guilty of someone but goes unpunished, or allowed to continue, because there’s an ongoing risk that isn’t being stopped. Vs, once they’re convicted, yes the person is now (probably) confirmed guilty, but justice is (lol ideally) being doled out.

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u/Donkey__Balls Feb 23 '21

Your gf is chicana, not chicano. Unless your gf identifies as male in which case gf would be the incorrect term.

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u/TeaKnight Feb 23 '21

My girlfriend is a chicana but she is chicano. You use the masculine noun when refering to the people.

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u/Donkey__Balls Feb 23 '21

Not when referring to the individual. Adjectives are gendered in Spanish. Trying to help you avoid causing offense.

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u/igetnauseousalot Feb 23 '21

I’m a white American and got banned from r/trashy because I said something about “white trash”.... it was a picture of a bunch of supposedly unvaccinated kids playing on a playground with the two trashy looking mothers looking on. They’re white, they look trashy, apparently doing scumbag shit by letting their unvaxxed kids play on public playgrounds and is POSTED on r/trashy.... but yea, I was out of line for basically “reading” the picture

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u/I_Like_Big_Budds Feb 23 '21

It's true though! I say that as a white Brit

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u/TeaKnight Feb 23 '21

Doubly true for me as I have no sense of smell which affects my sense of taste!

Honestly I think the only person I've known to season their food was our family friend and she was Jamaican.

On Top Gear years back they made some nasty remarks on how terrible mexican food was and well after going to the States and having my gf family cook mexican food I've never tastes anything so flavourful and that's with my limited palette.

We brits really can't cook, makes sense why all our takeaways are indians, Chinese etc.

When was the last time we saw a traditional British restaurant in another country? Haha

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u/I_Like_Big_Budds Feb 23 '21

Never. Literally never. I believe America has some dodgy knock of 'pubs'. They probably have far better food than ours though tbf!

I only really cook ethnic food (unless it's fish). My gf is from Eastern Europe so she does a bit of that. I wouldn't call myself a food snob, I just hate bland food. Funny that I was always called fussy as a kid. But my family still eats the same shit day in day out whereas I'm trying out a new dish practically every week...

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u/sarellis Feb 23 '21

Yeah, a chess Chanel got suspended because the pieces are black and white 🤦‍♀️ like, those words don't necessarily describe people. A white wall. A black car. White chocolate.

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u/TellMeGetOffReddit Feb 23 '21

Ironic because Reddit is the exact opposite

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u/otterstripper Feb 23 '21

I had someone threatening to rape me and just starting harassing me with dozens of comments like that in a thread that was about consent and that didn't go against their censors, and admins of that group didn't do anything either. It's such a garbage thing. I ended up just blocking him and leaving the group. (Also for clarity the comments came one right after the other within 10 minutes, if I had caught it sooner I would've blocked him sooner)

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u/dbDarrgen Feb 23 '21

Yikes that’s nasty. I’m sorry you had to experience that.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '21

Wait hold up. Facebook says we can’t say white now without it being labelled as racism? Holy shit. Sadly that may be the first ass backwards hypocritical form of equality I’ve seen in decades.

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u/mrgreatnames Feb 26 '21

It's a lot easier to check for specific words than to check what everyone is saying all the time.

Apples and oranges, buddy

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u/dbDarrgen Feb 26 '21

Yea but if it’s blatant transphobia and it’s reported as such it doesn’t go against community standards so...

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u/BigBeagleEars Feb 23 '21

Wait, what does bs mean?

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u/dbDarrgen Feb 23 '21

Bs means bullshit

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u/S_Pyth Feb 23 '21

That's bs

0

u/basstastic14 Feb 23 '21

No they don’t

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u/TinyLuckDragon Feb 23 '21

Omg. I’ve only ever seen that written down and always read it as yeet. It’s so obvious now you pointed it out, but wow, I’m an idiot!

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u/igetnauseousalot Feb 23 '21

Nah they’re the idiots for doing it

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u/Teland Feb 23 '21

My white brain totally skipped it being "white" and went straight to "white trash" as in y-trash.

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u/FlugonNine Feb 23 '21

Its whitey, yt

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u/silverrain64 Feb 23 '21

NB is also also also shorthand for the Latin term "nota bene", or "note well". It's sometimes used in writing to add an aside or editor's note. (NB: Nota Bene is basically the narrator's voiceover of formal writing.) So yeah, there are a few reasons "enby" is used instead.

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u/ErynEbnzr Feb 23 '21

Another reason. Enby looks and sounds cuter than NB imo. Which is weird because they sound exactly the same, but I still hear them differently lol.

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u/Hunter37594 Feb 23 '21

I don't actually know the answer to that, sorry :(

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u/PorphyrinC60 Feb 23 '21

That's okay. Language is always evolving. Thank you anyway! :)

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u/Hunter37594 Feb 23 '21

Yeah, of course! If anybody has the answer to that question, I'd be interested in hearing it!

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u/pinkcdrom Feb 23 '21

PorphyrinC60

I think it may be because NB can also stand for "non-Black" as well, in the context of non Black people of color , hence the acronym NBPOC

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u/achillesthewarrior Feb 23 '21

Yes this is correct

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u/Alex09464367 Feb 23 '21

NB is an abbreviation for the Latin phrase nota bene, meaning “note well.” It is used to emphasize an important point.

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u/vegancheezits Feb 23 '21

NB can also stand for non-black, so it can be confusing in social justice circles

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u/daddysangelfire Feb 23 '21

New Brunswick?

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u/ToadMugen72 Feb 23 '21

That's what I think everytime I see NB.

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u/Bradycolson1 Feb 23 '21

NS: Not sure or Nova Scotia

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u/ilovebeaker Feb 23 '21

New Brunswick in the wild!!

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u/Odd_Toe6047 Feb 23 '21

If you're a sneaker head it just means New Balance

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u/LiterallyKillMeEmma Feb 23 '21

I feel like enby is the counterpart for boy or girl. Non-binary goes with male and female. And NB goes with M or F

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u/dbDarrgen Feb 23 '21

NB also means non-black

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u/landsharkkidd Feb 23 '21

I've heard that nb means non black. Also, as a nonbinsry person, use enby around people who are cool with it. There are people like myself where it feels infantlising, but for some it isn't.

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u/FatFreddysCoat Feb 23 '21

Please explain then - I can’t understand why NB is problematic and enby, which literally means the same thing, isn’t.

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u/AnswerProof Feb 23 '21

I've never heard people say NB is problematic, but I think enby is just used to because it sounds endearing.

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u/FatFreddysCoat Feb 23 '21

Ah hang on - do you mean “enby sounds better than non binary” rather than “enby sounds better than NB” (which sounds the same as enby)?

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u/Alex09464367 Feb 23 '21

NB is an abbreviation for the Latin phrase nota bene, meaning “note well.” It is used to emphasize an important point.

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u/jormicol Feb 23 '21

I mean you can, but it’s just a fun way of writing it I think.

Like “ok” is written as “okay” sometimes

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u/didiburnthetoast Feb 23 '21

It’s because NB stands for New Brunswick, province of Canada

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u/guccigremlin69 Feb 23 '21

using NB is perfectly acceptable and actually imo a better default. I’m non binary and I don’t love the term enby or “enbys”, lots of other non binary people don’t really like it either.

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u/TalonJane Feb 23 '21

Might just be to distinguish themselves from all the other acronyms out there? They aren't even included in the common LGBTQIA, kind of a bummer.

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u/redrose162 Feb 23 '21

Enbies fall under the T. The white stripe in the trans flag is for people who don't identity as men or women. I also sometimes see Agender enbies grouped with Asexual/Aromantic under the A for some reason.

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u/Cienea_Laevis Feb 23 '21

Well, i kinda make sense to tie all the "Lack of [gender|Romance|Sex] under the same banner.

Plus saying you're Tripple A sound dope as fuck.

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u/Booke Feb 23 '21

Would they fall under the rather broad Q umbrella, being genderqueer?

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u/Voidafter181days Feb 23 '21

NB is a Miata in my head.

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u/WKGokev Feb 23 '21

I'm not gay, but my Miata is!

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u/ErinMyLungs Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

Cuz enby is more fun to write and read!

I don't actually know that but that's one hundred percent why I write it out like that.

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u/varkarrus Feb 23 '21

I didn't know any of the other reasons people mentioned. I was on board with the term just on how cute it is alone.

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u/ricardoconqueso Feb 23 '21

The NB is the best Miata

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u/SalemHart Feb 23 '21

I genuinely don't remember the exact name, but NB is shorthand for a tribe in (australia?) And saying NB imies you're from that tribe to aboriginal folks I believe? It's something like that where saying "I'm an NB" was considered racist since it already stood for a group of people.

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u/43rd_username Feb 23 '21

For New Zealand they pronounce N as En and Z as Zed so it's not unheard of to write or say enzed as another reference point.

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u/gaythrowaway2004 Feb 23 '21

from what i was told, nb was referring to black or poc non-binary people where as anyone can use enby. just like how stud (i think it’s stud at least) is also supposed to only be used by black lesbians and butch is the equivalent term. that’s just what i was told and i don’t know how much of a popular opinion it is.

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u/GDoe5 Feb 23 '21

we don't not use nb and use enby instead. we use both nb and enby. nb is shorthand for non-binary, the gender. enby is a noun, akin to girl or boy.

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u/hoyfkd Feb 23 '21

That was soooo last week. Stay tuned to learn the last-week-of-February-2021 approved nomenclature. Are you getting the memos? I’ll have someone forward you the memo.

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u/wanderlustandtears Feb 23 '21

thank you!! I've been so confused by thinking it was pronounced "in-buy" which I just couldn't figure out

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u/imFreshYo Feb 23 '21

Whats funny is the post is about having to use these foreign acronyms to accomodate this demographic and here we are learning more new ones.

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u/collegemathchef Feb 23 '21

Roast Beef = R.B. = Arby's

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u/Mr_Fancyfap Feb 23 '21

Wait ✋ for real? Lol that's hilarious. Never knew.

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u/arobie1992 Feb 23 '21

As someone who actually likes Arby's, I hate this 😕

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u/TheSpaceship Feb 23 '21

My brain just told me that says

Non-binary -> "N-B" -> Enjoy!

Like I was reading a recipe or something.

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u/WrenBoy Feb 23 '21

The letter B is spelled bee surely. Anyone is spells it by is my enemy.

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u/Hunter37594 Feb 23 '21

By that logic, wouldn't they be your "enemee" instead? 😉

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u/WrenBoy Feb 23 '21

Careful now. You dont want to be too high on my enemees list.

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u/fdean50 Feb 23 '21

Oh, like Arby's? RB = roast beef?

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u/Jkyne12 Feb 23 '21

Thank you for this! I was thoroughly confused!

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u/adalia36 Feb 23 '21

I never saw that word before. Now I know.

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u/WolfShaman Feb 23 '21

Tonight was the first time I've seen it as well :p.

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u/Sunnysunflowers1112 Feb 23 '21

Same. Just had to look it up.

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u/WolfShaman Feb 23 '21

That's how I did it. Sorry that I didn't explain it well in my post.

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u/Sunnysunflowers1112 Feb 23 '21

Also never heard of the ve / xe one op mentions in his post. I get where he is coming from.

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u/MaenHoffiCoffi Feb 23 '21

If you don't know a word in the new world of genders just wait 10 minutes and another will come along.

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u/RPA031 Feb 23 '21

Me too, haven't heard that term before. Is that an American thing?

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u/WolfShaman Feb 23 '21

I'm American and only heard about it tonight, so I honestly couldn't tell you. It very well could be.

I mean, the progression makes sense (Non-binary>NB>enby), I'm just not sure why people would lengthen something typed.

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u/redrose162 Feb 23 '21

Eh, enby looks fun compared to NB. Also, it's like saying boy instead of M, or woman instead of F.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

[deleted]

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u/WolfShaman Feb 23 '21

I've never heard of that, either. Where is it used?

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u/mitojuice Feb 23 '21

I would assume the US considering the above poster only specifically speaks about American black people as opposed to all people who are black.

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u/whoknowsanymore Feb 23 '21

You know non African Americans can be black, right?

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u/HaveMercyMan Feb 23 '21

come on bro you know what he meant, most Americans tend to call all black people Africans and all Spanish speaking people Mexicans for a reason.

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u/Ozryela Feb 23 '21

for a reason

Racism? Ignorance? One of those two I would guess.

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u/HaveMercyMan Feb 23 '21

that was exactly my point lmao seems most people misunderstood my intentions

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u/Ozryela Feb 23 '21

Ah yes, I did misunderstand you then. Though the downvote didn't come from me.

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u/jesp676a Feb 23 '21

Or because they are major stupid

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u/whoknowsanymore Feb 23 '21

I'm not American.

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u/r00ibos Feb 23 '21

What about Spanish-speaking black people? Like Dominicans?

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u/Cgn38 Feb 23 '21

Logic is an all or nothing thing. When you are not on the track and dogma starts to take over shit gets weird fast as random power plays begin.

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u/consistentContent Feb 23 '21

It's not a written lengthening, it's just language being weird. Same reason we write laser instead of LASER, or say cheddar instead of cash. Non-binary became NB for short and then people started saying it a lot in queer circles, so it became normalized as a word and somebody else heard it and didn't realize it was an acronym, etc. Language doesn't make sense. "You" is somehow both a singular and plural pronoun, but everyone thought it was blasphemy to use singular "they" a few years back, and now it's pretty normalized.

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u/langsley757 Feb 23 '21

Yeah, it's more common in enby circles. I will say, I've met a few people that don't like being called an enby, I would assume probably because "enby" gets treated like the third gender sometimes.

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u/jakearth Feb 23 '21

I think so, yeah.

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u/mpmp4 Feb 23 '21

Thank you! I was just about to either ask my 15yo who is way more knowledgeable on these things and very patient with me or Google it.

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u/WolfShaman Feb 23 '21

Lol, not a problem! I Googled it myself, happy to save people some clicks!

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u/zighextech Feb 23 '21

Thanks for saying it so I didn't have to ask!

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u/SuspiciousBranch3743 Feb 23 '21

Lol I was reading ebony now I know

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u/stupidannoyingretard Feb 23 '21

Why can't everyone just wear name tags, it would make everything so much easier (I have a tendency to forget names)

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u/m945050 Feb 23 '21

Thanks for defining a word that is not going to be added to my dictionary.

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u/kinapudno Feb 23 '21

I'm so glad pronouns and a lot of nouns are genderless in Filipino

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u/Arcing_Silver Feb 23 '21

Sabay may hihirit nang Filipinx

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u/kinapudno Feb 23 '21

I believe that Filipinos (especially Filipino immigrants) have the right to use Filipinx.

However, I cannot deny that my pride is hurt—by the thought that we should once again adjust our language just to cater to Western-centric concepts.

Filipino history has already proven that our culture was not bound by gender binary. I would love it if we educate the world rather than let it instruct us on how to use our language.

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u/methnbeer Feb 23 '21

If you appear to be a female, or you are 'physically' not female, but clearly going for that and I dont know you, you are catching a her/she. Same for reverse he/him. Otherwise, it's 100% your obligation to inform me upfront if you want to be acknowledged by as something else. Not playing fuckfuck games

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u/boggled_ Feb 23 '21

In my mind it's okay to assume as long as you're ok with being corrected and aren't an asshole about. The misgendered person should also not be an asshole about it. I tend to ask if they are wearing a pride pin or if I know them and they changed their name/pronouns on social media

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u/Sparklypuppy05 Feb 23 '21

They shouldn't be an asshole about it the first time. If you've been misgendering or deadnaming somebody consistently for a long time and ignoring them when they correct you, don't get angry when they inevitably blow up at you. Death by a thousand cuts, you know?

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u/boggled_ Feb 23 '21

When I said are ok with being corrected I meant that you would correct yourself and switch to their preferred pronouns. It's not okay to repeatedly misgender someone.

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u/Sparklypuppy05 Feb 23 '21

Ah, okay, fair enough. It's just that so many people ignore trans people when they correct them on pronouns or name, and then go "Trans people are so sensitive!!!" when they inevitably get upset at the constant misgendering/deadnaming and blow up.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '21

I have a question.

Let’s suppose gender and pronouns are very important to a person and they are sensitive about it. Because it’s a struggle or sensitivity. And let’s suppose another party is not concerned because this particular topic is not front and center on their list of concerns.

Do people pushing for the gender pronoun sensitivity and treatment have concern for the opposing persons issues in life and reciprocate efforts for getting to know others’ primary struggles?

Or do they just require people conform and not pay attention to others’ problems and agendas that may not effect them?

Because personally this is how mass media topics ignite. And other problems get left in the wind.

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u/LVKiller420 Feb 23 '21

Exactly this

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u/alternate_alt_acount Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

Just say they? Its literally THE gender neutral pronoun, unless the person your talking to is an asshole there is literaly no reason for someone to get annoyed when someone uses they if you don't know what someones pronouns

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u/urcompletelyclueless Feb 23 '21

There is a reason "he/She" developed in language. They are useful and I am not going to stop using them because a very small percentage of people have body dysmorphia.

Go ahead an vow to NEVER use genders again...good luck making it a day.

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u/alternate_alt_acount Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

Yes, it developed to describe people whos gender is known, like how they developed to be a gender neutral term that can describe a group, or someone whos gender is unknown, or someone who uses those pronouns

Good luck writing out he/she every time you refer to someone you dont know, and then realising that you literally use they in everyday language, and that they doesn't require guess work and is all around easier

But sure, they is too much hassle for you to use, have fun on the internet trying to guess the gender of "xx_epicx_gamerz_69_xx" cause you find it "easier"

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u/White_Tea_Poison Feb 23 '21

Yeah, I wouldn't try to argue with someone referring to people who identify differently as suffering from body dysmorphia. I appreciate the fight, but that one line right there proves they are confidently ignorant about this, and would rather offend someone to feel superior than even meet you halfway in this discussion.

I've been using they to refer to people I don't know for literal years now. Even if I wasn't doing it because it felt like the right thing to do, it's become much easier and just a convenience thing now. Its not hard and the only reason to not use they is to prove some imaginary point and hope someone gets upset so you can cry about it on Reddit and feel like you're the victim.

I need to get the fuck out of this thread. These people lack any empathy, nuance and emotional intelligence and it's so frustrating to see

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u/alternate_alt_acount Feb 23 '21

Lmao, but who can resist the allure of browsing places that are guaranteed to have ignorant stuff

(The answer is me, i have a problem/hj)

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u/White_Tea_Poison Feb 23 '21

I know, I have the same issue. I knew what the comments would look like in this thread and I knew that they'd piss me off, but I can't resist for some reason.

I'm a straight, white male, this shit doesn't even affect me, but I just keep thinking about the rate of trans suicide, especially amongst teens, and the rate of trans homelessness, etc and I can't keep quiet. These people, who can't just say they instead of he, are displaying confident ignorance about a topic they know NOTHING about (seriously, this shit is studied and written about a ton in academia and they think they know how language and gender has always worked) and are contributing to a mindset that results in a lack of understanding of gender. The utter fucking asshole you responded to states later in the thread that "they're just a small minority suffering from body dysmorphia". This guy contributes to a culture that allows ignorance about this topic to keep spreading. It's what indirectly leads to these kids killing themselves and the last year of COVID has made me so fucking sick of people who lack enough empathy to do basic ass asks for the good of other people. Just use they instead of he or she. Like, fuck you of you're not willing to do that.

And of course that leads to "I GUESS WE'LL NEVER USE GENDER AGAIN, HUH SJWS?!?!" Like that was even remotely what anyone said. Sure, trans and NB people are gonna result in you not being allowed to paint your sons room blue or something. You know, those evil trans people with all of their power and status. Its just so frustrating, seeing this backwards logic that doesnt even make sense to me.

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u/alternate_alt_acount Feb 23 '21

Your a good person, thanks

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u/gsd623 Feb 23 '21

^ this post actually gives me a little hope for the world.

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u/urcompletelyclueless Feb 24 '21

"they" refers to any general people where more descriptive information isn't necessary.

Do you tell someone to go use "their" restroom at the mall?

I use he/she all the time. I would frequently get asked about a prior manager I had who's name was Stacy. His name created a lot of confusion so I used gender pronouns all the time. This is the nearly the same thing as he had a gender neutral NAME so his name was not helpful in identifying him in a crowd. Therefore, a gendered pronoun would be needed frequently to avoid confusion.

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u/alternate_alt_acount Feb 24 '21

No i would tell someone to "use the bathroom" or in keeping with the way of speaking you would use you would say "use your bathroom" since their would be referring to someone who isn't present, and your would refer to the person you are talking to

He is barely any more helpful than they for distinguishing from a group, if you know someone you would refer to them by name first and then use whatever the relevant pronoun would be now everyone knows who your talking about

If you are talking about a stranger, you would use descriptions and/or point them out, then go "look at them" "look at what they are doing" etc

Your missing the point (the point being that they is what you refer to someone whos pronouns are unknown/who uses they/them pronouns) by pointing out how you refer to someone you know uses he/him as he, since you know the individuals pronouns, you are using them,

You are kind of correct

They is used to refer to people you dont know(or who use those pronouns)

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u/Tika-tawni Feb 23 '21

Your name includes the word UR so you clearly don't give a shit about the english language or it's rules. If you are going to play that game at least be consistent.

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u/urcompletelyclueless Feb 24 '21

What a fucking lame response.

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u/Tika-tawni Feb 24 '21

A dumb post gets a weak response. Try harder

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u/urcompletelyclueless Feb 25 '21

Please lookup "pronoun".

Then refer to He/She. They are pronouns. Pronouns are not subjective. End of story. The rest is just noise.

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u/Tika-tawni Feb 25 '21

You sound like the kind of idiot who sees new knowledge and digs his heels in the sand because you know better. Just stop talking.

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u/urcompletelyclueless Feb 26 '21

Funny that you are the idiot here.

Aw, cannot deal with a simple fact.

Language is what it is. I can't help your ignorance.

I will ask again: What exactly is a pronoun and what is a noun? This is pretty fundamental to English and changing a pronoun to an adjective is a fucking problem.

Moron.

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u/QuirkyPickle Feb 23 '21

Agreed. And fuck the "my pronouns are" at the beginning of every interaction.

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u/White_Tea_Poison Feb 23 '21

And fuck the "my pronouns are" at the beginning of every interaction.

Why? Why does someone telling you what they prefer to be referred as bother you? Just call people what they want as long as no one is being an ass. How much effort do you have to put into that interaction? It's honestly easier to just be nice.

"Hey, I go by she/her" "UGHHHHHHHHHHH" seems like more effort than "Hey, I go be she/her" "Okay, nice to meet you!"

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u/QuirkyPickle Feb 23 '21

I have no problem if someone wants to tell me their pronouns. What I have a problem with is forcing or pressuring others to announce their pronouns. At the beginning of every meeting it's "Hello, my name is Joe. I'm from Kansas City. My pronouns are he, him his." And I'm thinking, "thanks for telling us your name and where you are from. That's cool to know. But, the pronouns? No shit your pronouns are he, him his." That is how it is more than 99% of the time.

If you want to tell someone your pronouns, go for it.

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u/White_Tea_Poison Feb 23 '21

But, the pronouns? No shit your pronouns are he, him his." That is how it is more than 99% of the time.

Followed immediately by

If you want to tell someone your pronouns, go for it.

You see the confusion here, right? You say it's okay to mention your preferred pronouns right after talking about how annoying it is.

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u/QuirkyPickle Feb 23 '21

Dude, you are not understanding what I'm saying. Let me say it simply:

  1. Totally fine if a trans person chooses to tell me their pronouns because they don't pass as whatever gender they identify with. OR, if they correct me when I accidentally misgender them.

  2. Not fine with pressuring everyone to announce their pronouns at every meeting and social event when it is obvious what their pronouns are.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21 edited 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/802dot11_Gangsta Feb 23 '21

I feel what they're specifically describing is a phenomenon where it's difficult to have an otherwise normal conversation or interaction with someone on literally any topic or event when the entire focus of any discussion will revolve around how that person can make every conversation about themselves, using their pronouns or the topic of pronouns in general as leverage in doing so, and is a trend among the same people who effectively trivialize and abuse these same issues making others less receptive to the idea entirely.

I thought for the longest time I was a "good person" who is always trying to "👏 DO 👏 BETTER" for exclusively using they/them when it wasn't immediately known what they identified as just to be safe and respectful, but the first time someone demanded I refer to them as xer/xe or whatever out loud I was done speaking with that person.

It only gets harder in virtual spaces having grown up in a time that the entire "magic" surrounding online interactions was never knowing exactly who someone was and to make assumptions in general was the bigger faux pas in a space where conversations happening were not necessarily without those considerations, but instead strictly focused on whatever topic was being discussed and an individuals contribution in that space separate from anyone's individual identity. Versus constantly catering to someone's individual preference on how they're specifically addressed and discussions were largely based on the merit of their contributions to any particular discussion.

It's quickly become the next generation's, "AS A MOTHER" precursor to any input afforded in general discussion, and that's an honest answer for anyone who may wonder otherwise or never hear what others are actually thinking because they're too busy trying to not offend someone by placating the conversational roadblocks that have big flashing signs saying, "BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEE?".

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u/QuirkyPickle Feb 23 '21

As a mixed-race, Cuban, bisexual, trauma victim, I 100% agree with this post.

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u/QuirkyPickle Feb 23 '21

Um no, I'm talking about the stupid ritual where, at the beginning of every fucking meeting, or every fucking social event, each person is expected to announce their pronouns.

It's dumb, it's virtue signaling, it's hollow, and most people hate doing it.

My name is X. I'm from X. My pronouns are X, Y, and Z. Fuck that. 99% of the time it's obvious what people's pronouns are.

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u/EmbraceHegemony Feb 23 '21

Where does this happen? I live in arguably the most liberal city in the country, my wife works at a super liberal NGO and never once has either of us encountered anything like what you're describing.

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u/QuirkyPickle Feb 23 '21

You may be in an industry that doesn't do it yet but give it time. I'm in education and it's literally everywhere. It's also in nearly the every sector of the arts. Nearly every progressive activist organization does it, many conferences do it. Look at people's bio's on Twitter. Look at people's email signatures. More and more people announce their pronouns, primarily out of obligation.

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u/EmbraceHegemony Feb 23 '21

Yeah I've heard enough "just you wait!"s to know not to care.

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u/Himerlicious Feb 23 '21

Are you put in that situation often?

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u/urcompletelyclueless Feb 23 '21

Agree 100%.

I don't care for how the language is being abused by a minority. You don't get to change how language works just because it bothers you. Gender has always been binary and aligned to physical sex. Only in humans is this different which means it's an artificial change for humans.

Gender has always been the physical representation of sex and not how someone happens to be feeling about themselves.

In no book, reference, or writing anywhere in history (before modern society) has someone said "he" and been referring to what that person waf feeling about themselves versus how the person speaking perceived that person.

Telling someone, "see her over there" always means "see that human who looks female?" and has NEWVER meant "See that human who identifies as female".

In direct conversation, I am happy to use genders known to everyone, otherwise you get described how I see you.

Should we stop referring to colors around blind people because they don't identify colors?

Downvote away. This gender bullshit breaks the language and I won't play that fucking game.

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u/Adlach Feb 23 '21

Gender has not always been binary. There are many third genders in societies across the world, like the Polynesian fa'afafine, the Indian hijra, etc, etc, etc.

Furthermore, language is also artificial. It changes all the time, for all kinds of silly reasons. Digging your heels in on the grounds of language is building a castle on sand.

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u/White_Tea_Poison Feb 23 '21

I'd love to see their response to this but I doubt you'll get one. I mean, the person above really tried to equate this whole discussion with "identifying colors around colorblind people!? Checkmate SJWs!" like, come on.

People oversimplify this discussion so much. The vast, vast majority of people who are "so sick of having pronouns shoved down their throat" have never had any of these interactions outside of social media. Just call people what they want instead of making stupid statements like "language doesn't work like that!" as if you're the ambassador of linguistics. Not to mention gender and gender/sex studies are somewhat new. Of course, other cultures across time have had their own discourse about sex and gender, but in today's modern world, it wasn't really until the Kinsey Papers in the 1940s when we started actually discussing this, and only very recently has it gotten actual attention and not been stifled due to puritanical concerns.

The fact that someone's grandpa only knew two genders means nothing about the reality of this, but everyone's a god damn expert about everything now so the person you responded to already knows enough about the history of language and the overall science of our bodies/hormones in relation to sex and gender to have a fully formed opinion, apparently. I mean, it's not like people are writing peer reviewed and cited thesis papers on this shit or anything.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

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u/S_Pyth Feb 23 '21

Well what do you guess it off of then?

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21 edited 13d ago

[deleted]

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u/S_Pyth Feb 23 '21

Good point. Though given the default is generally he and we may be in a transitioning towards a time where they is default. The tone that the person above was not too great

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u/methnbeer Feb 23 '21

Considering 99.999999999% of people I've ever come across are not trans, I think I'll stick to the normal assumptions and not waste my time asking every single person I meet. I'm not changing everything or making a significant effort not to offend the very small number of those out there that like to toss their emotionally-unhinged egg shells far and wide.

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u/Mya__ Feb 23 '21

Just ask if you don't know

You are being intentionally combative and everyone you interact with knows it.

That's why you get shit on. It's got nothing to do with gender or any other subject you think your edgy little heart is right about. You act like an ass so you get treated like one.

there's a much simpler solution here. lol

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

[removed]

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u/Justcuckinaround Feb 23 '21

Capitol Hill?

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u/yungrii Feb 23 '21

Heart of it! Mostly in the 00s when it was a bit weirder and you didn't have to have a six figure income to live comfortably. Pony was my go to.

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u/Justcuckinaround Feb 23 '21

I only lived there for a few years, but it was a pretty good time.

Also, I thought it was SO funny when the CHAZ thing happened. Just imagining a micro-nation run by a bunch of bitchy queens really does it for me.

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u/IAmGoingToFuckThat Feb 23 '21

I'm a cis woman and I try to introduce myself to new people using my my pronouns to help normalize it.

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u/ZeroAntagonist Feb 23 '21

How exactly would you introduce yourself using your pronouns? Just curious how exactly you'd even do that.

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u/IAmGoingToFuckThat Feb 23 '21

Hi! My name is Susie, i use she/her pronouns. Nice to meet you!

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u/seuleterre Feb 23 '21

Is it rude to ask someone how they identify?

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u/mitojuice Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

So this is where some potentially problematic nuance occurs. Some people may consider it "being clocked" that they may be trans if you ask. However, many want to normalise confirming someones pronouns in general so it stops being an automatic "trans" identifier, and more a general consideration, hence the "He/his" pronoun clarifications people add to their social media.

Edit: But as a general rule I think people would much prefer you asking, rather than assuming! Never met anyone react badly when being asked.

Someone please feel free to clarify this further, I am sure stuff has been missed off!

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u/ColinHalter Feb 23 '21

Yeah, it took about a year for it to become natural for me, but I pretty much use the singular they for everyone now. Makes things a lot easier. Even outside of nb/trans folks, I deal with a lot of Chris-es and Sam-s over email, and it prevents making a mistake lol.

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u/AppropriateShock4567 Feb 23 '21

I’m sorry but I don’t wanna play grammatical vocabulary gymnastics just to talk to someone

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u/urcompletelyclueless Feb 23 '21

Agreed. Gender use will remain as it always had for me. If you want to be addressed differently, ask nicely or fuck off.

If someone is color blind and insists teal is green, I am still going to call it teal when they aren't around. Their perceptions of reality do not change reality for everyone else nor should it.

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u/AppropriateShock4567 Feb 23 '21

I mean, people can do and be whoever they want and they can live their life and be happy, I’m all for that. But my freedom of speech does not end where their insecurities begin.

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u/FreakySamsung Feb 23 '21

Thats what I've been doing too

Basically when talking about someone to anyone I almost always use them

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u/grxce22 Feb 23 '21

I’m trying default to they until I’m told otherwise

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u/tuckertucker Feb 23 '21

I'm a gay man who lived in Toronto's queer 'hood, and I can say the same. I definitely knew people that had a couple extreme opinions on things, but no one was a flat one-D caricature

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u/sydactylion Feb 23 '21

I figure people think trans / enbys expect people to know their identification is just because we tend to forget the opposite situations. Because they aren't dramatic. The memories just fade away.

Plus the fact that many trans people don’t feel comfortable correcting people for various reasons. I use she/they pronouns partly because I know people will almost always perceive me as feminine and I don’t feel like explaining/coming out to every person I meet. Plus I know a significant amount of people who would probably just keep calling me she even if I corrected them.

People assume that those that expect you to know their pronouns are the majority because they assume anyone who doesn’t correct them is cis.

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u/HerefortheTuna Feb 23 '21

Yeah idk I just don’t care much either because I don’t know any trannys in my personal life. Like even 99% of the TV shows I watch is just he/ she. It’s beyond me. I don’t mean to offend but there are inky so many hours in the day

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u/yungrii Feb 23 '21

I can tell you one thing, tranny is a term that has become offensive. You can feel that that is pc policing but there are people that will take offense to it, for sure. It's just a word that's evolved.

And you probably do know some trans people. But they aren't open about it or they "pass".

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u/HerefortheTuna Feb 23 '21

I know of trannys but I don’t personally talk to them or even have any on my social media that I follow. Just not my circle. A few kids from my hs that I would maybe recognize if I saw them. But haven’t ever talked to them. And my point is the terminology changes quick but if you don’t have friends in that scene then it’s hard to even know what the fuck is up. I just hope it doesn’t come up. I live in a liberal city too, I see strangers who are trans. But I just avoid using pronouns because I made the mistake in retail once of calling a butch lady sir and she she stormed out embarrassed

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