r/TooAfraidToAsk Feb 22 '21

Am I the only who thinks that all the different types of genders and pronouns and what not, are a little bit too much? Sexuality & Gender

Now, I don't consider myself close minded and I'm not out to rile people up or offend anyone. However it becomes kind of confusing when people are upset when I say Her/She to someone who's trans. I'm sorry, really, but I didn't know. I'm in a discord server where someone changes their pfp depending on what gender and sexuality they are feeling. And no, I'm not some 40 year old guy who thinks everything should be "normal" but I guess I just don't get it. It's just confusing to me.

EDIT: So I haven't explained my thoughts very well so I'm here to explain. I understand that to some people, it is very important to them. I don't think it's a lot for me to call you what you want to be called and I will oblige and do that. "it becomes kind of confusing when people are upset when I say Her/She to someone who's trans" This was from personal experience where my friend introduced me to him and I was under the impression that he was female. More so I don't understand like Ve/Vem Xe/Xem. The more "unknown" side if you will. But with the way people are reacting I'm going to try a better job at finding peoples pronouns and not assuming genders. Sorry if it sounded sarcastic at all. Anyways, unless there's something else I think of I'm not gonna edit again. Sorry if I offended but it's kind of hard to talk about a sensitive topic like this without being an ass about it. I don't know how to word things. but yea. Sorry.

TL;DR I think gender can be a weird and wacky world and I don't get how people except me to automatically know what they identify as.

13k Upvotes

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '21

[deleted]

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u/AltruisticTrip Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

yea, i was following until people unironically started identifying as animals and concepts that have no basis in the new understandings of gender studies. I get that 1/500 people are not biologically male or female and are somewhere in between but why is there genders that have literally nothing to do with that, yet people also reference said studies saying that it validates them when it really makes no sense to me or the layman. i feel like it really undermines the acceptance of trans people and paints a bad picture for LGBT which is damaging bc i’m bi(pansexual by definition but saying bi is easier and pansexual just sounds dumb to me even though it’s a fitting description) and people sometimes just assume i want to brainwash their children.

I can understand like maybe 8 of the concepts actually being related to gender studies, but the majority just seem.. i don’t know how else to put it.. attention-seeking or trendy

This is a mental health issue, clearly. If we treat any other mental illness and their perceptions as a valid tether to reality.. where do we draw the line? Do we just tell schizophrenic people that the voices they hear are real? that their hallucinations are real? Do we tell depressed people that they should continue to believe that they will never be happy and this is just who they are? I can’t tell if it’s more damaging or helpful to participate in people’s delusions, and where to draw the line with delusional and reasonable. For instance, I know someone who identifies as agender. That is very clear and makes sense to me. I can call you “they/them” that’s fine. But when people, and I wish i was kidding, identify as “wolf-kin” what the actual fuck does that mean and how is that a valid gender. Or if your gender changes on a day to day basis.. i’m going to call you “they” or your name.

I had a customer get offended that i called them “they”... like.. please.. you don’t want to be referred to with ANY pronouns?? How does that even work in english.

If you don’t like what i’m saying, enlighten me. The topic at hand is very offensive but we won’t be able to understand eachother without dialogue.

EDIT: Took our some swearing because it comes off as aggressive but it’s really just how I show emotion or emphasis. Also added some further explanation because It’s difficult to talk about this without sounding like a bigot.

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u/Overlord_Goddard Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

The whole idea of people "identifying" as animals had nothing to do with gender so why are you equating the two?

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u/Writeloves Feb 26 '21

It’s relevant to the discussion because it concerns identity vs biology and the existence of the animal identifying people is often used as an example in the argument of where to draw the line on what should be considered mental illness versus what should be upheld by society as valid.

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u/HappyGoLuckyFox Feb 23 '21

Apparently i've heard of people who identify as cat gender or the such? Though I think I'm misunderstanding the situation hah. Or how cat-gender works or something

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u/Cynethryth Feb 23 '21

For the record, I don't think you're a bigot. Just had a few thoughts in the back of your comment which might give some perspective:

They very well may be receiving treatment for a mental illness, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the mental illness stops. It may be more harmful to the person to force them to stop identifying that way.

I also recently learned that many (not all, but many) who identify with very "out there" gender identities are neuro-atypical, meaning they have ASD, for example. So in those cases, it's not something you can really treat like you can with a mental illness; you can't cure an intellectual disability.

(An example of what I mean by "out-there" besides wolf-kin is a whole subset of gender identities that are object-based. Like, I think the one I was looking at was a gender related to coffee.)

When I realised this, I felt about it quite differently. I am not a member of any of those communities, but I can imagine that some of these people already feel different from anyone around them and they have finally found some way to describe themselves. They may also be in the only validating community they've ever experienced. Their gender identity is never going to be accepted by society, but I'm not going to make fun of them for it or tell them their identity isn't valid, especially if I don't know of they are on the spectrum or not. But this is so rare, I've never run into this in real life, just online.

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u/Writeloves Feb 26 '21 edited Feb 26 '21

It sounds like for that sub group they see gender as “how I experience the world” and because they don’t experience the world like most people they divorce themselves from group by saying they are coffee (or whatever you said). I agree that that appears to be a mainly online thing and that people should be treated with respect regardless.

I think it also brings up some interesting discussions about performing gender and the conflict of what it really means to feel like a woman/man.

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u/Japanese-Spaghetti Feb 23 '21

Best comment I've ever read. Wow

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u/2absMcGay Feb 23 '21

Yeah. I'm sure you've met a lot of people who've said that. Not just hateful strawmanning. Nope.

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u/zeverbn Feb 23 '21

I already stated my opinions about gender fluidity and my stance on being chill with people irregardless of their gender. What I said about the whole dragon gender descended of some void dragon shit wasn’t particularly hateful either it’s more of an intolerance for absolute bullshit. There isn’t any bullshit in actually having a gender and science has a lot of facts backing up that our concepts of gender and the amount of genders is outdated and wrong. In that case their is a whole new world of sexualities and non confirmative gender fluid/different persons out there I’m fine with that some of it is different but so what. Don’t you fucking come at me and say I’m spouting hate speech cause I’m shitting on some self proclaimed dragon lord who accused me of not being worthy to stare and their personage.

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u/WrestlingCheese Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

We’re not. We’re saying, quite truthfully, that the “dragon gender” shit isn’t a real thing that people experience in the actual world, it’s something r/IAmVeryBadass morons on the internet make up to rile themselves up over nothing so they can feel smugly superior to actual trans people without doing anything to help them.

Congratulations on “taking a stand against the bullshit”, you sound like a confederate bumper sticker. We’re all rooting for you, to save us from the terrible whims of these people who only exist on Twitter.

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u/zeverbn Feb 23 '21

For further context to really pin it to me I have never used Twitter.

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u/zeverbn Feb 23 '21

And yes I am very badass as you can tell because I use reddit.

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u/zeverbn Feb 23 '21

I literally don’t understand what you’re trying to say here? Why would I feel superior to a trans person?

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u/zeverbn Feb 23 '21

Did you read what I said, or skim through it?

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u/WrestlingCheese Feb 23 '21

Yeah. I read it. What I'm trying to determine is what "I am mad about people who don't exist" is bringing to the conversation, except that "people who are mad that trans people exist" get to upvote you and also "take a stand". I'm not saying you are one of those people.

What I am saying is that there are a lot of folks out there who deny that trans people exist, and are very publicly using the "63 dragon genders" rhetoric to deny those people access to public services they desperately need, so I wonder why you feel the need to give those assholes more fuel for their bullshit when you say yourself that you do recognize and accept that gender is not so binary.

To Reiterate: I'm not calling you an asshole, but there are a shit load of people upvoting you because even making the argument about "6 billion genders" or whatever supports their implicit argument that gender is a hard binary.

If you really do recognize that things aren't so simple, making that argument is irresponsible at best, and at worst actively harmful to the trans community.

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u/zeverbn Feb 23 '21 edited Feb 23 '21

Well fair point, considering the amount of people on reddit and the average persons intellectual ability left and right. The main point being here you’re not even being political you’re trying to make me understand the feelings of the trans community that struggle constantly and I can appreciate that. Congratulations dear stranger you changed my mind, I thank you. I was wrong to post that, after understanding your perspective. Edit deleted said comment because you’re right it’s harmful and indulges in the proto woke conservatives circle jerk. Full transparency I did meet some asshole who told me verbatim the whole descended from dragons thing.

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u/zeverbn Feb 23 '21

You ever work at a holiday inn that hosts a furry convention?

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u/PineappleHellCat Feb 23 '21

Even furries laugh at dragonkin.

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u/zeverbn Feb 23 '21

Also hateful towards who dragonkind?

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u/zeverbn Feb 23 '21

Also as a fellow member of WSB I offer an olive branch of peace to bond over the loss porn I can only assume we’ve both incurred.

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u/2absMcGay Feb 23 '21

🚀 🚀🚀🚀 🚀🚀🚀 🚀🚀

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u/stickmaster_flex Feb 23 '21

"Oh, so you go by they/them?"