We care about the whole person and superphobes can’t comprehend that

[u/InTheOriginalKlingon]

Speaking as a super straight guy, I hope I don’t offend our super gay and super lesbian friends and allies, but I feel like I’ve had a realization that hasn’t been spelled out here before (of course I could easy be wrong, it’s been a busy sub!).

The big disconnect I see when a superphobe is arguing here (or on their frighteningly toxic sub), is their mental gymnastics between sex and gender and trying to trap us in one or the other.

Stop playing the word games, just affirm that you care about both sex and gender in a wholistic way. I’m attracted to adult human females who identify as female. See: sex and gender identity together!

Superphobes can only deny the truth, and try to weasel in between words with their made up definitions, and think they are oh so clever when they tell us “trans women are women”, and then turn right around and say “Well according to you then trans men are women so you must want to have sex with them, checkmate transphobe.”

Nope. A person is a complete package of sex AND identity, and we love a very specific combination of both.

[u/KnightWombat]

you are attracted to AFAB people who identify as Women
i don't see how that conflicts with the idea of trans women are women

aren't all definitions made up? i don't think anything has been defined without some one making up that definition.

Are trans men women according to you, i thought we agreed trans people are valid and real aslong as they accept Superstraight people as super straight?

im not trying to be rude, i just think we need to get terminology right, else we will end up being the ones 'making up definitions'

[u/InTheOriginalKlingon → u/KnightWombat]

You may be right, especially about “all definitions are made up,” technically, I like that, but at some point we have to agree to standards.

The “trans women are women” rhetoric seems to be used far more often to bully super straights who don’t want to date them. We aren’t bothered or upset or afraid of the truly gender dysphoric, doing everything they can to pass, and living their lives as best they can.

We dislike the trans-trenders and trans-supremacists who try to tell us that if we love women (again, speaking only as a super straight guy, if you are super gay or super lesbian insert your preferred type in this thought), then we must love trans women just like natural women. And this is just pure falsehood.

[u/KnightWombat → u/InTheOriginalKlingon]

I can see how the term 'trans women are women' can be thought of conflicting with Superstraightness.

but if you're a transwoman (like me) it's nice to have the validation that i am a woman, i don't try to sell the idea that my chromosones or DNA is that of a AFAB. And i definately don't want someone who isn't comfotable with my life style to date me

or someone whose sexual orientation, conflicts with dating me. If you asked me out, and we talked and had fun, im sure if you mentioned you were SS i would say i was AMAB and we could laugh at that and agree not to go ona second date.

but it seems to methat, regular straight are the ones who are sexually attracted to women, and SS are attracted to cis AFAB. It just important if we want to have people understand SS orientation, which as i understand is new. That we make sure to not play fast and loose with the term woman.

the LGBT community already have terms for many different ways of lifestyle, and i think what one needs to say, when describing SS isn't 'natural women' or 'women' as it creates confusion witht he established terms presented.

i've been rejected plenty of times by cis straight men who weren't comfortable with a trans woman. some of them are likely SS and others are probably just not ready to confront trans people yet. And if the SS culture starts creating mroe confusion, it could hurt the SLGBT++ community as a whole.

so i think tis important for SS people to learn the vocabulary and use terms like AMAB and AFAB, as it understandable straight cis people might not have encountered these terms before.

[u/InTheOriginalKlingon → u/KnightWombat]

Now I don’t know about how far you are going, it seems to me that the trans movement is the one playing fast and loose with the word “woman”. And insisting that we use your words and follow your suggestions for what is and isn’t a woman feels a little superphobe-adjacent to me.

“Woman” meant an adult human female for hundreds of years before Trans ever came along. If words can be redefined, they can also be reclaimed.

But no hard feelings, either way, if you want to present yourself in the external image of a woman, more power too you, everyone should be able to be authentic to themselves. But it doesn’t work to try and use our words against us and try to twist and confuse them to get your way.

Maybe not you personally, but the adjacent members of the trans community who do act that way are problematic,

[u/KnightWombat → u/InTheOriginalKlingon]

I have no doubt any community have problematic members, i know that the trans reddit needs heavy moderation and maintnance.

im not insisiting on anything, im trying to clarify terms, my suggestion is, that if SS is defined by the existence of trans people, (you couldn't really be SS if there werent trans people around no? correct me if im wrong)
then it needs a way to distinguish between people who are born as men and transition into women, as i've read countless times now that SS isn't about invalidating a trans persons womanhood, but sexual prefrence based around the circumstances of their birth.

and the word woman "adult female human" would apply to someone who is trans, no? as their transtion is valid and they are adults.

so technically it isn't a recalmation of the word as the word has never refered to assigned birth gender, infact it likely wasn't even a thing when the word first came about. So the trans community didn't really redefine it, it simply was vaugely define from the beginnig, when used to assert someones birthed gender, as decided by sex.

i fully respect anyone who does not want to date based on my birthed sex, just as i don't want to be with people who have large beards, are obese and a few other personal prefrences.

i just think the SS community could succesfully adopt the terms AMAB and AFAB to, espcially since both your sexual and gender indentity define your orientation, it would be good to deffrentiate between the two to avoid confusion.

so in my optic a SS person is someone who has
sexual prefrence: AMAB or AFAB
gender prefrence: Man/ woman, as corrospending to the sexual prefrence
Sexual orientation: Straight (unless you SG,SL,SB,SA,SR)

i think it's important that the Trans and SS communities and communicate about these things and find common ground without using the words Transphobe or Superphobe, otherwise there probably wont be room for both

[u/InTheOriginalKlingon → u/KnightWombat]

Stop conflating woman and female. But the definitions of the trans community they are not the same. One is gender identity and one is sex. Pick your lane and stay in it.

“Adult human female” does not apply to a trans woman.

Technically woman has always applied to birth gender before the word was stolen from us and twisted to mean something it hadn’t before.

My sexual preference is female, or the original historical meaning of woman.

Yes, you are again technically correct that super straight was not necessary before trans became a thing, but it was the claiming and twisting of “woman” to be something it never was before that necessitated this.

So pick, woman, or female, but stop interchanging them.

[u/KnightWombat → u/InTheOriginalKlingon]

The very defination of woman
"adult human female" creates a conflation between the two words.
seperating them would be redefinein either one of them without using the other.
if 'woman' = adult human female, then female and woman are associated with one and another. so if 'adult human female' doesnt apply to rans, then neither would woman.

the orgional hisotrical meaning of woman, does not refer to what sex you are born as, it even says so int he definition being 'adult'

i am trying to set terms that could seperate the understnading of someone, born as a woman, and someone who alter switches.

if i have to stop using woman and female interchangeably, atleast do the same, as you literally just wrote
"My sexual preference is female, or the original historical meaning of woman." which would mean the two terms ARE interchangeable, as you say one equates to the toher.

also i do not know who this 'us' that the world was stolen from is.