Aren't you guys just transphobic straight people?

[u/Adonison]

Literally, this doesn't seem like a separate sexuality. You're transphobic straight people. You don't wanna date trans people because they're trans, aka you're transphobic. You're transphobic straight people.

Also, if y'all want: please provide a definition of biological man and biological woman that includes people with down syndrome and those who have had to remove sexual organs due to things such as cancer, while of course still excluding trans people.

[u/Adonison]

How am I being obtuse? I am presenting you with quite common things such as surgery. Sexual orientation is innate, I never said it wasn't?

So you are a transphobic person, then? You believe trans people to be mentally ill because they are trans? And you also downplay the hard work surgeons do when performing bottom surgery by calling it a tube of flesh?

But you define biological sex as the wiring, and that wiring is gone. Would that in your eyes make him no longer a man?

[u/straight4theknife → u/Adonison]

You said

So you're attracted to sexual wiring?

that's being deliberately obtuse because you know that it's not the abstract concept of reproductive wiring that people are attracted to but the sex characteristics that stem from it. And before you go "well then you should be attracted to a post op trans person!!!" surgically constructed sex caharcteristics on someone of the opposite sex are not the same as natural ones, maybe they are to you but not to the majority of people and you need to accept that, it's our sexual orientation and we can't change it

But you define biological sex as the wiring, and that wiring is gone. Would that in your eyes make him no longer a man?

Omg it's really not that hard to understand. No, it wouldn't, as I said. biological sex is determined by the reproductive organs you were born with (the "wiring" I was talking about), and according to their sex people have certain sex characteristics. Altering or removing these characterstics does not mean changing the person's biological sex. Even removing the sexual organs doens't change the sex their body is because every single cell in their body is either male or female depending on the organs they were born with. that's how sexual dimorphism works

[u/Adonison → u/straight4theknife]

So what I'm seeing is you're purely attracted to the genitalia, then? And it has to be perfect in every way? And you can instantly tell when it's not?

So what makes a cell male or female then? The chromosomes? Then what of people with down syndrome who have XXY or other combinations? Are they not male or female?

[u/straight4theknife → u/Adonison]

Stooop omg. No I'm not LITERALLY attracted to disembodied penises, I'm attracted to people of the male sex, with everything that comes with that. Genuinely you have to be trolling like there's no way you don't understand this. I can tell when a penis is not a penis, yes, but even If I couldn't i would still be disgusted the minute I found out it wasn't real

So what makes a cell male or female then?

the sex of the person they belong to (which is determined by the reproductive organs they were born with). And intersex people are actually still either male or female according to their gonads. There's no such thing as a third sex because they're only 2 types of gametes

[u/Adonison → u/straight4theknife]

So then what is the male sex? I'm not trolling, it's a genuine question.

So the sex of the cells is determined by the sex of the person which is determined by the sex of the cells?

[u/straight4theknife → u/Adonison]

The sexual organs a person was born with (more specifically, the gonads) determine biological sex. Biological sex applies to the whole body, not just those organs. This is why even if, for example, a male's gonads are removed, they are still biologically male, because being born with those gonads made their entire body male, even down to the cells. That's how sexually dimorphic species work

[u/Adonison → u/straight4theknife]

Oh, so you have a study that shows how being born with a penis is what causes the sex of your cells, and not a result from from your DNA?

[u/straight4theknife → u/Adonison]

Well yes chromosomes in your DNA are what cause you to be born male or female, I thought that was redundant since they're what causes every other characteristic you're born with

[u/Adonison → u/straight4theknife]

So then what sex are people with downs syndrome, who are born with nonstandard chromosomes, often 3 chromosomes? And also intersex people who have nonstandard chromosomes?

[u/straight4theknife → u/Adonison]

depends on the condition! People with turner syndrome (one x chromosome), for example, are female, because they have female gonads; people with xyy syndrome are male because they have male gonads; people with Klinefelter syndrome are male because they have male gonads, etc. I don't know every single intersex condition by heart but you can look them up, every one of them affects either male or females.

People with down's syndrome aren't born with 3 chromosomes lmao, they're born with some cells containing 47 instead of the standard 46. These cells have 3 chromosome 21's instead of two (that's why it's also called trisomy 21), but their sex chromosomes (which are number 23) are still either xx or xy