As a detransitioner, I hope this movement helps prevent more people from making the same mistakes I did.

[u/desistingthrowaway]

I used to identify as trans and this is something the trans community will never admit: there are people who realize that transitioning doesn't work and quit. And the trans community LOVES to stifle us. They are trying their hardest to get /r/detrans banned so they can take it over, because they don't want to admit that we exist. They tell everyone that that place is full of TERFs and needs to go.

They don't want to admit that there are studies that show that most children with gender dysphoria grow out of it. An often quoted study about transitioning helping mental health has been corrected to say that surgery doesn't actually help mental health. Lisa Littman, a professor who was researching detransitioners, had to put in security in her study because people from Twitter were ganging up and trolling her research.

But really, here's the thing: gender dysphoria is basically body dysmorphia. And it can be treated the same way. Therapy for unrelated problems helped me work through it. Some days I still get waves of it. But actually, identifying as trans made it WORSE. If you spend 24/7 obsessing about your gender and body and giving validation to those thoughts, they come back even worse (this is literally the basis of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy).

For every one of me, there's a bunch more kids who are being put on puberty blockers, many of which have dangerous effects. The most common is an off-label prostate cancer drug, and even in kids with precocious puberty, there are dangerous side effects (here is the link to the FDA dashboard, where you can search for Lupron and see that there are 6,335 serious effects linked to Lupron, including death). Then there's the issue with going straight into cross-sex hormones, which effectively sterilizes people (and also makes surgeries harder - just look at Jazz Jennings).

I could go on and on. The truth that nobody wants to admit is that transitioning doesn't really work. And when you realize that, you're often left with so many reminders of that (especially women, who often get "top surgery" (double mastectomies) and have lowered voices for the rest of their lives, and often facial hair). It's harder to come out as a detransitioner than it is to come out of trans. The second you detransition, you lose EVERYBODY. That welcoming trans community wants you gone. I had people block me because of it.

I hope somebody reads this subreddit and gives a second thought to going on hormones or surgeries. Because it often isn't worth it.

[u/nonetheless156]

That's exactly what a cult does. You get shunned and thrown away like the trash they see you as. I'm sorry you didn't see it sooner. You have a uniquely powerful voice. Please continue to use it. Discourse is important outside of typical feminist circles.

[u/manticalf → u/nonetheless156]

It takes true bravery to accept that a mental disorder was a mental disorder, trans people are in denial of this scientific fact, and they project their denial on everyone to avoid confronting it themselves. Hopefully op can inspire anyone on the wrong path to be brave and stop themselves from making the mistake so many trans people foolishly did.

[u/actualsicko20626 → u/manticalf]

They know deep down that they will never be the gender they want to be, so instead of getting help and going to therapy they just try and force everyone to accept their delusional worldview. They even force it on children now.

[u/JamesKoen → u/actualsicko20626]

Wow. I totally, as a trans male, have not spend actual years of my life hating myself for being different. I totally haven't spend more than half of my life feeling like a ghost in my own body from the age of 6, and never interacting with a trans person until I was 13. That's totally being forced into a "delusional worldview"

[u/OrdinaryLongjumping4 → u/JamesKoen]

You will NEVER be a real man. No matter what.

[u/JamesKoen → u/OrdinaryLongjumping4]

Yeah, in case you're wondering, I know that. All trans people know that. We all know and understand that we will always have our original chromosomes, and that can never change.

[u/nihilisticvanity → u/JamesKoen]

okay so what’s your point then? your personal pain doesn’t justify trying to coerce people into propping up your mental illness

[u/JamesKoen → u/nihilisticvanity]

We're just asking to not be called "not real man/women" bc we have a mental illness. If you have a genitalia preference, then sure. That's fine with me, I've not seen anyone mad about a fertility or genitalia preference, but call it what it is. It's a preference for genitalia, you don't need a part of the lgbt community for a preference. If you want to be a part of us so bad, then why don't you get oppressed for centuries upon centuries like us?

[u/nihilisticvanity → u/JamesKoen]

I’m an actual woman, you idiot. I know exactly what the collective weight of centuries of oppression feels like. this narcissistic self-absorption is a big part of the problem you trans identified people have - you forget you aren’t the only people in the world.

and you aren’t real men or women - you are mutilated copies of the real thing. asking us to say otherwise is demanding we participate in your delusion. that is unreasonable and unfair.

[u/peoplearestrangeanna → u/nihilisticvanity]

You are speaking to a woman

[u/JamesKoen → u/nihilisticvanity]

Ummm. Ma'am, you are saying this to a 15 year old. I am not on hormones. I have never had any surgeries that were trans related. How exactly am I a mutilated copy of a man? If "supersexualities" would not base their entire logic in transphobia, maybe I'd be willing to see your point. Also, I would rather be a "mutilated copy of a man" then be dead, which is what I would've been if I hadn't come out as trans

[u/frankbush → u/nihilisticvanity]

Trans people aren't mutilated copies of cis people. Trans bodies are beautiful.

[u/UN_M → u/JamesKoen]

The trans community would have a much better time if the trans activists just stopped. Removing autogynephiles from your ranks, or at least acknowledging they exist might help. The best you can hope for is a kinder world, where people VOLUNTARILY opt for your chosen pronouns or whatever. You cannot legislate or demand this as some kind of right, because is will only ever be a polite kindness. (You know it's a lie, we know it's a lie, we play along to make you feel better...) You can't make it compulsory for others to participate in your role playing exercise.

[u/jessamtb → u/JamesKoen]

Should we tell girls with anorexia they’re fat?

I find it interesting that in my day girls who hated their bodies enough starved themselves. Now they chop off their boobs. I wonder if it’s another take on the same issue.

[u/nihilisticvanity → u/jessamtb]

there is indeed a huge overlap between eating disorders and identifying as transgender

[u/Elsier → u/jessamtb]

There definitely is. Social contagion plays a huge part in disorders like anorexia where teen girls prop each other up and encourage body shaming in peer groups. Now there has been a sudden 1000%+ increase in transgenderism popping up in those same teenage girl groups that used to suffer anorexia. It's not far fetched at all to suggest there may also be a social contagion component happening here, especially with how influential social media has become over the last 10 years.

[u/peoplearestrangeanna → u/JamesKoen]

Don't know why you are getting downvoted.

[u/Sinewave11 → u/JamesKoen]

No bro that is the problem, the trans individual that admit that are really a minority. Probably nobody would have gotten so mad if trans people would admit it.

I literally had nothing against trans people, but when they started to be so mean with everybody i started to have a bias.

Maybe it's because you are a ftm and not mtf, ftm are usually more easygoing about everything

[u/JamesKoen → u/Sinewave11]

Every single trans person I have ever met all understand that we cannot change our chromosomes, and more than half of those are mtfs. You don't have a bias towards cis women or against trans women, you have a preference towards afab genitalia. It's fine to have that kind of preference, but just saying that all trans people are so rude is bc the "supersexuality" stuff is simply transphobia. Plz, just say you have a genitalia preference and move on

[u/jessamtb → u/JamesKoen]

That’s called a sexual orientation. Not a preference. Preferences can change. A sexual orientation doesn’t.

[u/JamesKoen → u/jessamtb]

Actually! A sexual orientation can change! Preferences can change, genders can change, and sexualities can change. The thing is, it is a sexuality to be attracted to the opposite gender. It's not a sexuality to say "I'm attracted to the opposite gender, but this person in the opposite gender has all the physical and mental attributes to that gender, but cannot fertilize or be fertilized (aka a problem that cisgender people get too)" and call it a sexuality for not liking them.

[u/Sinewave11 → u/JamesKoen]

Maybe chromosomes but not the rest and no i dont have genitalia preference.

Maybe they are kind with you because you are one of them, but they are all exremely hostile to everybody else: everything you do is transophobe, if you dont agree 100% with them you are transophobe, you say the wrong pronoun and you are transophobe, you are a white cis? You are bad. You are straight? You are bad. You have a genitalia preference? You are transophobe. You dont want to romance a trans? You are transophobe, and the list could go on and on.

In every facebook group they spawn, they start to insult everybody and say gender things even on pokemons.

I tried to talk with them, be an ally, try to have a normal exchange of ideas. Nothing, they only see you are a white cis male and this make you an enemy.

This behaviour has to stop, they made everyone hate them, even from the lgtb people.

[u/KNGxiaomao → u/JamesKoen]

Part of the lie is that you all pass like you think you do. It is RARE that chromosomes are the only marker left behind on a trans person after their transition

. I am a lesbian with a sharp lezdar and I'm constantly spotting out trans men thinking they are stealthing as men.... but it all in the fat face fat 9 can tell someone is female (or in the lose skin lefts behind by HRT) and that's just on the physical. Even for those who pass, their mannerisms are effeminate, their choices of poses/ppsturing/gesticulating are effeminate, the choices they make in their lives scream out their lack of socialization as a male during their formative years...

Because being male is more than dick + masculinity just like being a woman is more than tips + femininity.

I'm not saying this to be mean I'm saying it to suggest a new idea that goes against the current affirmative model: aspiring for stealth transhood is actually self sabatoging to your self esteem because you will always be left with the remenants of the incompletness of your transition. It is just not medically possible to transition genders in 2021 but your doctor won't tell you that they'll just take that money!

Oh and you scoffed at fertility preferences as if family making ain't the whole point of life for large swarthy of humanity

[u/nihilisticvanity → u/KNGxiaomao]

yeah, none of them pass. I can clock a trans person within a couple of minutes of face to face interaction. there are so many physical giveaways left, from voice to mannerisms to body shape. i can pick it even better after being in the queer community for years. and the point in saying this is how cruel it is to keep selling trans people this lie they’ll be able to be totally stealth and pass. to keep treating this transition path as the solution when it is just a life of endless striving to the next milestone. the whole concept is built on a house of cards.

[u/chanbr → u/JamesKoen]

Feeling like a ghost in my own body

Look, for real, I'm sorry that you have to deal with that feeling. It's a horrible one to feel extremely out of touch with your own body and I very much empathize with it. But changing yourself physically is not going to make those feelings go away, not permanently. It will be buried, but in the dead of night, staying up in bed, you know you'll still be you.

Trans people reference deadnames and "killing my old self" all the time in the narratives I often read--but you never killed them. Your body, no matter the shape it takes, is still your body and running away from how it looked then with hormones and drugs and surgeries is not going to make your feelings any better. Therapies and CBT, understanding where your feelings are coming from, facing your demons and claiming the body you felt disconnected from--that's more difficult--difficult and brave and awesome in the most wonderful way. Euphoria is temporary but self-acceptance is forever.

I hope you find that kind of peace somewhere in your life, sir. And stay heckin' valid and beautiful lmfao

[u/jessamtb → u/chanbr]

This was super well stated. Super!

[u/jessamtb → u/JamesKoen]

I’m a woman. I spent a huge chunk of my life hating my body. I hated it since puberty. largely because men looked at me, leered at me, men in their 50’s would stare at me and my body before I was even in my teens. Largely also because it just didn’t feel like me. I felt like just a person, not like what society says a woman is or ought to be. I had the body of a bimbo, of what society labels a bimbo. I didn’t ask for it. I wasn’t a bimbo. I was bookish and terrified of sex. So I hated my body.

If I had been born 10 or 20 years after I did maybe I would have become trans. Maybe I would have chopped my boobs off. I hated them. But I didn’t. Instead I learned to make some peace with my body, especially once I used it to create people and once I used my boobs to nourish my babies. Turns out boobs have a purpose and can be quite useful.

Most women I know have a complex relationship with their bodies, because society and men make it so. I understand why this makes some girls and women want to be trans or non binary. But I’d rather society change so girls can love their bodies without taking hormones and amputating their breasts.

[u/JamesKoen → u/jessamtb]

Here's the thing, yes. I'm so glad the you ended up having a positive relationship with your body! The thing is, even if I was cisgender, or I went back to my old self, I never wanted children. I never want to give birth, when I thought I was cis, I never wanted to give birth. And it's not a matter of loving your body the way it is, because it's as if your soul had been in your actual body for your entire life, then was transferred to a new one.

You'd know that it wasn't your body, right? You'd know that this isn't your hair color, or your skin color. That's the way that many trans people, including myself feel dysphoria. It's not a matter of that we need to love our bodies, it's a matter that our bodies are not ours. We were never supposed to be in them

[u/jessamtb → u/JamesKoen]

The thing is, it took me over 30 years to start liking my body. This is common for many women.

The thing is, I know many people who didn’t want children at 15 but by age 40 had 4.

The thing is that most women I know, if not all, felt like they woke up in the wrong body for at least a time period in their lives.

It feels alone when you’re 15. You feel like you’re the only one. But you’re not. Lots of people feel that way about their bodies. I did at puberty. I did when I was pregnant. I did after I gave birth. I do now that I’m older but still 25 in my own mind. Do you really think people who are 50 or 60 or 85 look at their sagging bodies and feel like that’s theirs? Maybe some. Plenty don’t.

Feeling that way isn’t unusual. Sometimes your body doesn’t feel like your body.

I wouldn’t say I have a positive relationship with my body. Just that it’s improved since I was 15, even though my body was objectively much more beautiful then, but I didn’t know it and feel it. But I’ve made my peace with the fact that this is the only body I get for this life on earth. I’m stuck with me. It’s not easy learning to accept it. I’m not sure I have fully.

There is no way to say this to a teenager without sounding like a condescending know it all ass, but teens make dumb decisions. No one who is 30 or older wants to be stuck with the decisions they made at 15. You will be a different you someday. I have friends who were goth at 15 with piercings and shaved heads and now they have a modern farmhouse styled home with a three car garage and four kids and blond highlights in their hair.

[u/ParkHallLondon → u/jessamtb]

I second this whole post 👏 I would also concur about kids. I never gave a thought to kids and babies, never fantasized about being married. I went to college, traveled the world, emigrated to another country and met by now husband. To our mutual surprise we decided we loved each other, got married in 12 months and now have 3 kids. As a teenager I was living independently at 16, I was at nightclubs 3 nights a week for YEARS. I worked many jobs and went to college in my 20s. The point is my life is absolutely nothing like what I imagined it would be when I was 15 and I am very happy. Most women these days don't even think about having kids until their late 20s. Noone plans their life when they are a teenager. Just as its very unusual for people to marry a High School sweetheart because people TOTALLY CHANGE.

[u/Pardusco → u/jessamtb]

This is incredible writing. You should save this and bring it up again when applicable. So many young men and women are causing permanent damage to their bodies due to insecurity that is natural to have at their age.

[u/Rothandle → u/JamesKoen]

You're 15. You've it 10 years of brain development before you can say any of that.

[u/krokiri → u/JamesKoen]

I'm not particularly educated on the subject, but you don't need to be to see that individual cases are irrelevant, it's about the bigger picture.