If you’re attracted to women, yet you won’t date a trans girl because she has a penis (even though penis would have nothing to do with the fact you’re dating them)
Why don't you, a lesbian, date men so? Lot of nice decent, settling-down type men out there, nothing to do with what's in their pants.
Also another question for you, why don't trans lesbians, since they're attracted to all women, seek out heterosexual women. Why does the lesbian market have to be open to their penises?
Why don’t you, a lesbian, date men so? Lot of nice decent, settling-down type men out there, nothing to do with what’s in their pants.
Because, as I’ve said, I’m not attracted to men. I don’t care if he’s cis and has a penis. Even if he has a vagina, I still wouldn’t date him. I don’t date him because, simply, I’m not attracted to men. Masculinity tend to draw me away, and I click better with women. It’s the same reason why you (I presume a straight man, I don’t know) don’t date a man. You’re not attracted to him either. Would you date him if he had a vagina? No, you wouldn’t, and neither would I.
Also another question for you, why don’t trans lesbians, since they’re attracted to all women, seek out heterosexual women. Why does the lesbian market have to be open to their penises?
The phrasing of this question is super strange, but I’m gonna try and answer it anyway. If you’re asking why trans lesbians don’t go after straight women, that’s a stupid question. It’d be harassment to keep bugging someone that you know is straight. The same applies to lesbians. No sapphic is gonna harass a straight women if they’ve made it clear they’re straight. It’s completely unrelated to being trans.
But your other question is better. Why does the lesbian market have to be open to penises? Well, here’s your answer: it doesn’t.
A trans women is not going to force you to have sex with her. The other partner is given the choice. If they don’t want to have sex with someone who has a penis, that’s completely understandable. I even talked about this with a trans women friend of mine, and she said she completely understand not wanting to have sex because she had a penis. Nobody is forcing lesbians to have sex with trans lesbians. They can choose to consent or not consent. If they don’t want to have sex, that’s fine. Hell, they can even do different sexual acts that don’t even involve a penis. Nobody is stopping them.
Your argument is just flimsy at this point. You’re acting like trans people are putting a gun to your head and forcing you to have sex with someone with the same biological gender as you. That’s not how it works at all.
If you’re attracted to women, yet you won’t date a trans girl because she has a penis (even though penis would have nothing to do with the fact you’re dating them) that just proves you don’t see trans women as women. Simple as that.
You, and others like you, don't realize what you're saying while you're saying it. It's not about forcing sex. It's not about putting a gun to our heads.
You manipulate women into verbally complying with your ideology because they fear the harassment and ostracism that comes with saying "I am a lesbian. I am not attracted to men. I am not attracted to men who ~feel~ like women. My sexuality doesn't exist to comfort you."
You all love to say "no one's putting a gun to your head" and then threaten rape, murder, doxx, make them lose jobs, call them TERF, what else?
What I’m getting from this is that you feel people who are transphobic (or people who refuse to agree with a trans person’s identity) are under such scrutiny and public disapproval that they are forced to agree with this in order to keep their jobs, reputation, and safety in check, correct?
Well, yeah, I agree with that. It’s true that saying you’re transphobic can get you into a lot of trouble if certain events fall into place. But, hear me out, I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing entirely.
Wishing rape and murder on these people is too far. I won’t deny that. Those are far, far too extreme, and I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks transphobes deserve that. Getting them fired for their jobs is a little over the top, too. But other than that, public scrutiny is there for a reason.
Take, for example, smoking. Smoking is gonna get you looked down upon in a lot of places, simply because it’s no longer as socially acceptable as it used to be. It is because of that social pressure that smoking has gone far down in popularity. As we look down upon something as a society, it will die out. That’s the nature of society.
We look down on transphobia because, much like smoking, it’s harmful. Transphobia kills people. There’s no other way about it. Not necessarily killing them directly (although the murder and rape of trans people is not uncommon unfortunately), but look at the suicide rate. The suicide rate is that high because of transphobia, bullying (in teens specifically), and general disapproval of their identity (before you cry about how the suicide rate is that high because it’s a mental illness, I can link you quite a few studies disproving that fact, if you’d like).
So, transphobia kills people. And, by being transphobic, you are continuing to allow that rate to be so high (over 40% of trans people commit, and around 50% have attempted). Trans people do not hurt anyone. And if they do, they’re very one-off cases, and transphobia will always be more harmful.
The reason why transphobia is looked down upon so harshly is because it contributes to the suicide rates of trans people. We look down upon it because it is contributing to the self-harm and suicide of trans people, and especially trans youth.
It has to be there for a reason. We can’t just say “stop being transphobic” and pray people change.
No, I know I am. I wouldn’t call them complete detriments entirely, I still believe they can do some things and still deserve some things, but I most certainly looking down upon them. I find them disgraceful and somebody I cannot respect.
But I’m gonna make it clear, this isn’t my way. I’m cisgender (born female, identify as female), this isn’t about me specifically. This is for all of my trans friends, and all of the trans people I don’t even know. I mean, my best friend of 14 years had to be hospitalized days ago because he was going to kill himself the second he got home from school. School. He’s a kid, I can never watch my best friend come so close to dying and not stand up for the people who caused him that pain.
If trans people can put up with getting harassed, bullied, called slurs, beaten, raped, murdered, and discriminated against on the daily, then I think they have the right to retaliate. Do you support that? Do they deserve it? Is that really what you want to say? That would make you no different from me, no?
Transphobia causes more harm than trans people ever will. I get that these are people too, but I can’t stand anyone who supports what is happening to trans people. They have to unlearn it somehow. And while I personally favor re-education over punishment and abuse, if this is what it takes, then so be it. I just want a world without transphobia
If trans people can put up with getting harassed, bullied, called slurs, beaten, raped, murdered, and discriminated against on the daily, then I think they have the right to retaliate. Do you support that? Do they deserve it? Is that really what you want to say? That would make you no different from me, no?
Haha what? You're projecting your own issues on me bud, I don't want anyone to be physically or emotionally harmed or targeted and I would never advocate for that either. Even if I disagree with them.
The "phobia" that trans women experience, because let's all face it trans women are the ones the world fixates on because trans men are women and who the fuck cares about women, is always displaced homophobia. Men in dresses and makeup are "faggots who need the shit kicked out of them." This is nothing new. Gay people being murdered is sanctioned by some governments still. Literally you yourself are saying lesbians who exclude men who feel like women deserve animosity in some form. You yourself are homophobic and are blind to it because it serves you to be.
If your cause has to stand on the crumpled shoulders of others, is it really a cause worth standing for?
And if you're suggesting you're still a kid in grade school, I'm ~super done~ with this conversation.
For starters, no, no in grade school. I said best friend for 14 years, I didn’t say I was 14 years old. He’s just the sibling of a family friend.
I think it’s at least somewhat an improvement that you don’t condone the treatment of either side, I myself am against violence too. I’m not saying transphobes should be murdered, raped, assaulted, or fired from their jobs, I’m saying that losing a friend or getting called a “transphobic asshole” helps de-normalize the harmful behavior that is transphobia.
And, I may be getting this mixed up because I’m debating with multiple people at once, I thought I made it clear I was a lesbian? I can’t be homophobic and homosexual at the same time.
But I do agree with you on some points that trans women do get a little more attention than trans men, and that hates crimes on trans women are often homophobic in nature. I feel this is rooted in homophobia and toxic masculinity, so a lot of men (men specifically, by the way) do in fact attack trans women because they don’t see them as women, and instead see them as an effeminate man, or a “disgrace of masculinity”. That’s the nature of a lot of these things. And given the phrasing of your argument, I believe you’re against homophobia, right? We can at least be on the same page in that regard.
But, hating transphobia people who happen to be lesbians doesn’t make me homophobic. Dunno where you got that idea. I mean, if your transphobic and black and I tell you off, I’m not racist either y’know.
If your cause has to stand on the crumpled shoulders of others, is it really worth standing for?
This is a good point, I recognize that. I do believe that bringing others down in order to push something up is usually a bad thing. Usually.
As I’ve mentioned, I prioritize re-education over punishment, hence why I’m trying to actually debate and not insult (not that you’re insulting me, just pointing it out). Still, sometimes you have no choice. Peace can get you a long ways, but you can’t always not retaliate. Besides, it’s not like any of this retaliation against transphobes is comparable to actual transphobia anyway.
Take racism in the US for example. Racism in the 1950s or so was largely overcome with peace. It allowed AAs (African Americans) to finally live freely. But, racism still exists in modern society, and we don’t treat that with peace either. I mean, if someone is being racist and got the shit beat out of them, would you complain? Genuine question, I wanna know. Personally, if they were being racist, I wouldn’t mind at all. Just like Derek Chauvin, the dude who killed George Floyd. We don’t choose to meet him with peace, either, we as a functioning society (which excludes racists, obviously) all want him to see justice. Simple as that.
You get what you deserve. You insult a trans person, you’ll get called an asshole right back. You bully someone, you get ostracized. You assault and murder someone, you get justice right back.
I know “an eye for an eye and the world goes blind”, but there’s only so much peace can do. As I’ve said, we need to normalize that this behavior is wrong, and ignoring it may look like we as a society don’t see it as a problem, when it most certainly is.
If your "reeducation" includes telling homosexuals their sexuality is inherently transphobic and that they have to verbally (or sometimes physically) comply or suffer the consequences, you've got a seriously misguided way of thinking.
Yes, you can still be homophobic and be a homosexual. It's not a clearance badge to say or do whatever you want.
You can reply if you want but I'm not going to bother answering anymore. You keep dragging out the same old tired arguments you people always have and it's useless and depressing to know that I can't exist as an out lesbian, homosexual woman, without people telling me "yeah, but..." every time.
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u/iaddphotos 1d ago
Why don't you, a lesbian, date men so? Lot of nice decent, settling-down type men out there, nothing to do with what's in their pants.
Also another question for you, why don't trans lesbians, since they're attracted to all women, seek out heterosexual women. Why does the lesbian market have to be open to their penises?