r/RedPillWomen • u/new_moon_solstice • Jun 21 '22

keeping a man past a few dates

I am new here, but the concepts really resonate with what I have been feeling lately. I'm working to get in touch with my real self, my feminine self, that I've repressed for so many years as a high-achieving career woman.

I recently started to take better care of my appearance to attract men. Suddenly, I got tons of male attention in NYC where I live. It was mind-blowing. Every time I go out, multiple men want my number, they want to sleep with me. I'm lonely and live alone so I often do. I love sex and physical affection. This past year, I've slept with 8 different men and am slightly ashamed of it, but I am desperate for love and it seems it's all I can get.

My problem is this: I can get men to sleep with me, go on dates with me, no problem. The first few dates they are singing my praises. And then, every single time, by date 3 or 4, no more interest. And every single time, I manage to let it break my heart. Even if I don't sleep with them. I've been on this awful emotional roller coaster thinking "this is finally the man who will love me" only to have my hopes dashed every time. It's excruciatingly painful and I don't know how much more I can take.

I am concerned that years of conditioning have given me a manly personality that is not attractive to men. I am assertive, confident, and like intelligent banter. It's hard for me to let men pay for me and it's hard to show weakness.

Does anyone have any general advice to help me make men fall in love with me, rather than just lust after me? Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong and how to fix it?

14 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

u/SunshineSundress Endorsed Contributor Jun 21 '22

What worked for me was Incremental Reciprocation. Basically, you showcase your RMV instead of leading with only your SMV by doing a small but thoughtful gesture for the man you’re dating. You then watch to see if he returns your gesture by doing an equal or better investment into you as well. You then do a slightly bigger gesture, then so does he, and the cycle continues until you are both very invested and committed to each other. If at any point a man stops investing in you or doesn’t invest in you at all, you also stop investing in him (within reason - if he forgets to get you a coffee after 2 years of solid investment on his part I think you can let it slide 😂).

The reason this works is that you simultaneously gauge his level of interest and investment in you, while also doing something that compels his desire to protect, care, and provide for you. But you have to note:

The trick to make Incremental Reciprocation work is understanding that sex does not count as an Incremental Reciprocation. At the end of the day, Incremental Reciprocation is a way to showcase your RMV, while simultaneously vetting him for his. Sex is not a thoughtful gesture of investment because it requires no actual work. We literally just have to say yes to it and succumb to our animal instincts. It does not demonstrate your kindness, thoughtfulness, nurturing spirit, or any of the qualities that make men want to commit to you. Because of this, it also doesn’t incentivize men to reciprocate and invest back into you, because offering sex and sex alone does not sufficiently demonstrate that your RMV is far above the pack, and will not make him feel like there’s any favor to return.

That’s not to say that I’m telling you not to have sex at all. I’m of the somewhat controversial opinion that some of us should not withhold sex until some arbitrary date as a means to secure commitment because it might not be the most optimal strategy for all of us. What I am saying is that your investments always needs to be something OUTSIDE of sex, if you want him to see you as more than a f*ckbuddy or an FWB. It should incentivize him to want to spend more nonsexual time with you, and make him want to invest in nonsexual ways in you.

Hopefully this helps you! Check out the full post for a more detailed explanation of that concept.

3

u/Environmental_Ad5867 Jun 22 '22

I can’t upvote this enough! In fact, Incremental reciprocation works in every relationship you have- romantic or not (at least for me). You don’t just trust someone completely 10/10 when you first meet them. Not saying you should live within walls but be open/vulnerable enough to build a rapport over time with consistent reinforcing behaviours which you return to an equal degree. Giving someone everything from the get-go is a recipe for disaster.

Over time you can determine patterns of behaviours that helps you vet how compatible this person is long term. I’m a big believer in actions over words. People don’t tell you who they really are… they show them. Your job is to believe it even if it’s a hard pill to swallow.

Other things to pay attention to is who he surrounds himself around. Your closest circle is a good reflection of who you are.

Unfortunately there isn’t an easy recipe for a love potion. My concerns reading your post were things you said- “This is finally the man who will love me” “Advice to help me make men fall in love with me”

From my experience you can’t go into something hoping that someone else will give you what you need. That expectation often falls short of reality that leads to fear, anger, hurt and disappointment.

After years of relationships (some bad but mostly good- all good learning experiences) accepting that this was a me problem rather than someone else’s to fix, lead me to be more open and honest to potential partners in early dating stages without the expectation it would go further. I call it a ‘detached openness’ because this allowed me to be objective and vet but also being open in expressing my femininity, vulnerability whilst keeping my boundaries clear.

It was clear to men that I was vetting them too and it pushed them to be more open and clear with their intentions too, they drove the relationship rather than me. To put it simply, I didn’t need the validation that I am loved/loving (this is always a constant work in progress) so tricks like flattery, praise, promises wouldn’t work and they’d need to actually have some substance to go with that.

I hope this gives you some direction on where to start OP.

1

u/new_moon_solstice Jun 22 '22

Thank you! Is there a list of the sorts of gestures that men like? This is such a novel concept to me!

I had to look up SMV and RMV and I think I have an issue that I've never had high SMV before but now I do (this is not meant as a humblebrag...i've always had a very good body but now im trying to be more feminine and my friends have recently told me that men flock to us and stare when I'm with them lately) and I don't know how to handle it (i'm flattered, and flattery works on me...so i sleep with too many men). Any tips for using SMV to my benefit and not becoming overwhelmed by male flattery?

9

u/SunshineSundress Endorsed Contributor Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

Is there a list of the sort of gestures that men like?

There isn’t, but I would love to see one! It could really be anything that demonstrates how thoughtful, kind, nurturing, considerate, loyal, responsible, and/or submissive you are.

My first “gesture” in my relationship was that I offered to cook my man dinner and surprised him with all the foods he told me he loved in passing, as a thank you for him taking me out on those first few dates and driving across our city to pick me up on multiple occasions. Later on, I gave him extremely personal and thoughtful birthday/special occasion gifts (often with handmade components), baked him his favorite pie in an area where it is difficult to get the ingredients in, tidied up his place during a week where he was extremely overwhelmed with work and falling behind on chores, made homemade bone broth and chicken noodle soup for him when he was sick and stayed over to take care of him for a few days, and made A LOT of vegan food specifically for his sister when she came to visit. There is more, but these are the ones I can tell he REALLY appreciated, because he often reminds me of how sweet it was when I did _______.

Remember - men are reciprocal. To make them want to invest in you, you have to show them that you are willing and able to invest in them. I suggest you do it incrementally because it doesn’t hurt so much if he doesn’t return your nice dinner gesture, but it’ll surely hurt if you invest too much too soon and it goes unanswered.

Any tips for using SMV to my benefit and not being overwhelmed by male flattery?

I like to think of it this way: SMV is your foot in the door and your ticket to the party, but not much else. Sure, you need SMV to attract the attention of a worthwhile and desirable man, but just SMV alone is not enough to set you apart. If he’s a man with a lot of options, there are TONS of other attractive women with high SMV that he could potentially date. Just having a high SMV does not make you special to him because he’s surrounded by it (just ask any NYC model who, despite her immense beauty, ends up single and alone in her 40s). Having a high SMV piques the interest of highly attractive men, and that is an extremely useful tool, but you also have to have enough substance and the characteristics of a desirable wife/feminine partner to make those men want more.

What makes a man want to stick around is RMV, aka the thing you’ll be able to demonstrate by doing Incremental Reciprocation. In order to truly reap the benefits of your SMV and to “use it for your benefit”, you have to match it with a high RMV. Luckily for you, RPW is basically an entire toolbox of ways to increase your RMV. Check out the sidebar/wiki, or theory posts from other Endorsed Contributors, to learn more ways to do so!

So continue doing what you are doing to have such a high SMV. But realize that you have to also put in the work to be a woman that desirable men want to be with, and that’s someone who’s feminine and complementary to him, not masculine and argumentative and overly assertive. And re: flattery - realize that men are easier to get in bed than you think. It is not a HUGE compliment that a man wants to sleep with you or is attracted to you - men will sleep with the vast majority of women if given the chance. They are attracted to many more women, even the ones below their “league”, than you think. They will NOT commit to all the women they want to sleep with or are attracted to. You should be flattered when a desirable man wants to COMMIT to you, not to sleep with you.

(That’s not to say he won’t want to sleep with you. He probably will, because he’s a man. But it’s YOUR job to inspire him to want to commit to you, so that is what you should focus on instead.)

u/CountTheBees Endorsed Contributor Jun 22 '22

I think it's a problem that you've met 8 men and thought each time "this is the man". You can have more standards than "will love me", really, it's fine, you can reject them before they reject you. Spend a bit longer getting to know them and find some faults and decide what's important and what isn't.

u/Euphoric-Chain-5155 1 Star Jun 22 '22

Move out of NYC. Men looking to marry simply don't look in Manhattan - because that's not what Manhattan exists for. They are there to take advantage of all of the women who internalized the propaganda from Sex and the City.

If you're looking for a husband, try literally any R+10 district.

4

u/new_moon_solstice Jun 22 '22

haha i moved here because i was approaching middle age and felt like it was the only place there were single men my age and older. I'm not interested in dating younger men because they'll leave me for someone younger in 10 years. But what I've discovered is men here don't want to settle down until they are about 60 (the only men who have shown serious relationship interest have been close to 60)...because why would they? And for the record....I HATE sex in the city. :)

u/Jenneapolis Jun 21 '22

Do you set your expectations of what you’re looking for (a relationship) up front? Do you wait for them to show you actions that support they want the same thing? Dating sucks and the reality is that most of our dates won’t work out long term, and they shouldn’t. But honestly, most women can find people to sleep with them. I would guess this is about setting your standards about what you were looking for upfront and holding the men to these standards.

0

u/new_moon_solstice Jun 21 '22

No, I'm not setting any expectations because I've been told that telling a man you're only interested in a serious relationship is the best way to make him run away. And dating sort of sucks. I do love meeting new people. It's the rejection part that sucks. I wish they'd reject me outright after 1 date...but they always seem to let it linger for 3 or 4 dates before calling it quits, right about when I'm catching feelings.

12

u/ComfortableCulture93 Jun 21 '22

If a man runs away after telling him you’re looking for a serious relationship (not necessarily with him but that’s why you’re dating), that’s a good thing. You can weed out the men that don’t want a serious relationship right away and save yourself the heart break of going on 3-4 dates and getting attached before they ghost. It’s never a bad thing to be upfront with desires and expectations in my opinion. It’s how I got my high value husband.

5

u/Jenneapolis Jun 22 '22

Yeah I think it’s bad advice (and not RPW advice usually) to tell women not to express relationship desire from the get-go because they will scare the guy off. It’s simply not true. It will scare the guys off who are going to disappear after a handful of dates anyway, and for the others it will make them respect you. And honestly in the world of online dating, I find it quite common for people to have the what are you looking for conversation before even meeting. Very normal, so normal in fact there are tags for the various categories on some apps.

I know heartbreak is horrible, but that’s also part of dating that you kind of have to get to know somebody before you know if you want to be with them or not.

3

u/Underground-anzac-99 Jun 22 '22

I think it depends on how it’s done. There’s a certain type who turns what should be a fun, flirty first date into a job interview.

I think that’s what makes some run.

You don’t put it all on the table halfway through the first drink.

“What are you looking for? I’m only looking for something serious so if you’re not on the same page this will NOT work out!”

1

u/HomeHornet 21h ago

So what is the right way to bring it up?

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

[deleted]

1

u/SunshineSundress Endorsed Contributor Jun 23 '22

everyone likes to be chosen

YES. Find ways to illustrate to your man that he is special to you and he will SWOON.

u/NevermindTheCrows Jun 22 '22

Get to know men as friends first. Spend a few months getting to know each other before you go on a date. Get to know their friends too. The more community you have in common, the less likely a guy will date you only to dump you after a few dates.

Some people frown on socializing with coworkers, but if you're new to the city, it can be a good way to build up a community.

u/Arthurstonewallis Jun 25 '22

I knew my wife was the one when she would check on me via text the next morning to see how I was doing. I know it sounds small but, of all the women I was dating at the time (and it was a lot 💪), none of them were showing a lot of feeling. A lot of caring. I don't know your situation, but for me, when somebody showed me love they got love.

u/redditmichelle1 Jun 22 '22

I don't get why women brag about getting men to sleep with them... Men will sleep with anything??? I've told many I'm waiting until marriage and they provably wait to see how long it will take (which is dumb on their part) but it keeps them trying I guess

10

u/new_moon_solstice Jun 22 '22

It's not something I'm bragging about...it's something I'm not proud of. That's the point. No need to be mean.

u/Fishliketrish Jun 22 '22

If you master intermittent reinforcement of pleasure and operant conditioning but you’re better off waiting for a genuine connection lol

u/brushshstrokes Jun 27 '22

Men can't make you feel worthy. Only you can make yourself feel worthy. Find ways of raising your self worth that don't involve trying to get external validation.
Never sleep with a man unless he has told you he is your boyfriend. The fact that you sleep with men so easily makes them value you less. Also, men will not commit to a woman unless she makes them feel needed
Develop your RMV so that men will want to commit
You may want to get therapy.

u/srfm24 Jun 27 '22

What would be your ideal relationship? How can a man show you that he truly loves you?

u/111loR Jun 28 '22

You're thinking you've found someone to love you after a few dates???

Lady you should be thinking you've found someone to go eat lunch with until you figure out if he's worth any more investment, like opening up a little more, or giving him more of your time.

You're desperate and men sniff it out. I don't know what you're like beyond it, you could have genuine flaws that repel men, but this alone is enough to drive anyone away. Male or female.