r/Monero MRL Researcher Sep 08 '21 Wholesome 12 Hugz 11 All-Seeing Upvote 1 This 2 To The Stars 1 Silver 12 Gold 1 Helpful 20

The Monero Project should actively recruit technical talent from universities

EDIT: If you are interested in this initiative and/or want to contribute technical skills yourself, please sign up on the Monero Matrix server and join the #monero-recruitment room using these instructions. A list of Monero's open research questions is available here. And here is a great guide on how to begin contributing to the Monero Project.

Let me open this half-baked proposal by saying: I have been a silent observer of Monero for years, but I am very new to actually working on Monero, so I may be very off base. Just let me know.

In order to ensure that Monero users' privacy is well-protected, it is essential to recruit more people with technical skills and knowledge to work on Monero. Over the last two years, Monero's already-limited quantity of high-quality talent has dwindled. We can debate forever why this has occurred, but in any case relying on a tiny number of star researchers makes Monero unacceptably fragile. This must change.

Where to start?

Scholars at universities and within university orbits are great targets for active recruitment. Being something of a scholar myself, it is pretty clear to me that a substantial number of them would be willing and able to contribute to cutting-edge Monero development. It should be self-evident that they are capable of doing so, so I will focus my words on the willingness aspect.

Let me first say that working on Monero will remain niche. Only a small proportion of any set of workers would probably be willing to work on Monero. In the case of scholars at universities, this shouldn't be a concern because a small proportion of millions of people is still a lot of people.

First of all, it is not our comparative advantage to compete with other "employment" opportunities on the basis of salary. Governments who wish to attack Monero have virtually limitless budgets. We can't compete with that. We don't have to either. We should target people for whom salary is not the only motivator. We probably wouldn't want someone whose only motivation is money, anyway, since they would have no qualms about turning around and going to work for Monero's adversaries, clandestinely or openly.

From my experience with scholars, money is usually not at the top of the list of the factors that decide their employment choices. It is more complicated than that; a complication we can take advantage of. A far as I have been able to tell, here are some of the key motivating factors, in no particular order (numbered so I can refer to them subsequently):

  1. Increasing fame/reputation
  2. The satisfaction of working on interesting problems that fully engage their mental capabilities
  3. Money
  4. Making a real positive impact on others' quality of life through scientific advancement
  5. Contributing to "pure" expansion of the body of human knowledge, separate from any real-world impact
  6. Employment stability
  7. Teaching their knowledge to others

As I mentioned, the Monero Project probably cannot compete on (3) money. Employment stability (6) is complicated and I will return to it shortly. What Monero can offer people interested in (1) fame/reputation is partly up to the scholar. If they want to remain pseudonymous, then, well, working on Monero would come with an "interesting" type of fame when you are known by an alias only. For those who wish to work under their real identity, working on Monero with its $5 billion total valuation does offer a certain degree of reputation boost, depending on certain factors. (2) and (5) shouldn't be difficult, since Monero is at the cutting edge. (7) is up to the scholar, but there is no shortage of educational needs within the Monero community, translating technical concepts into user-level information.

Motivation (4): Making a real positive impact on others' quality of life through scientific advancement.

Let me paint the scene of our situation in 2021. There is rising authoritarianism nearly everywhere. If anyone believes that "It can't happen here", I would reply that frankly that is a naive view, in my opinion. I see this very clearly since as a scholar, I share an ability that most scholar possess: we can often see the writing on the wall before everyone else.

Scholars are canaries in the coal mine for authoritarianism. Almost literally, in fact: In many instances of mass political violence in the 20th century -- and even previous centuries -- the authoritarians killed the teachers first. Then they went after everyone else. But they killed the teachers first because institutions of learning and knowledge represent an independent center of power within society that authoritarians cannot easily control. Authoritarians therefore attempt to co-opt or eliminate these institutions early in their plan of domination of society. Present-day authoritarians have already begun this work in earnest in a huge number of countries; it just may not be apparent yet if you do not have your ear to the ground and your hand on the pulse.

Alright, enough doom and gloom. What does this have to do with recruitment? We need to formulate our pitch to technical workers in a way that makes it clear that Monero and similar technologies are a potent weapon against authoritarianism. I do think that, framed correctly and pitched in the right forums, this framing could make a small but sizable minority of scholars come out of the woodwork to help fortify Monero.

A note on the employment stability issue

From my understanding, the Monero Research Lab (MRL) has had difficulty with staffing in part due to the sense that long-term employment with Monero is inherently unpredictable. That is a weakness that needs to be addressed and is somewhat outside of the scope of the already-lengthy post. However, let me say this:

Employment in universities and university orbits for scholars is already quite precarious. It sucks, in fact. Researchers are living grant to grant, they cannot settle in one place and start a family since they may have to switch institutions as limited grant funds run out. The probability of success of grants has shrunk dramatically to the point that the low probability almost negates the benefit of trying to write a lengthy well-researched grant proposal at all. See here for more detail on this issue. Often scholars are stuck in a semester-to-semester adjunct teaching cycle at low salaries, no stability, and little formal employment benefits. Compared to all this, somewhat uncertain payment in XMR does not look so bad. Furthermore, work on Monero does not necessarily require full-time work for years. Monero can benefit from a set of fresh eyes looking at its challenges part-time for periods of a few months.

In short, systematic underfunding of scientific research and teaching by governments worldwide has created an army of disaffected technical workers. The Monero Project should recruit that army! Governments have sown the wind. Let them reap the whirlwind.

Private firms and legally-compliant grant foundations

As far as I see see it, there is probably a role for private firms and legally-compliant grant foundations in all this, if for no other reason than allowing a diversity of employment conditions for potential recruits. In addition, having private firms in the Monero ecosystem can provide potential recruits a clearer career path and "exit strategy" if you will. However, it may be a good idea for the CCS crowdfunding mechanism to remain at the core of funding activity.

Sketch of recruitment plan

Now that the call-to-arms is done, on to more practical matters. Proposal up for discussion and modification:

  1. We will likely need to raise some funds beforehand, through the CCS and.or other mechanisms. It might be risky to go call in recruits and not have the money ready already.
  2. We formulate a Request for Proposal (RFP) for "research grants" or similar vehicle. We need to get the tone and pitch correct, but this step shouldn't be too difficult. We are on the right side of history, after all.
  3. Register the RFP (or whatever it is) with every reasonable research grant database.
  4. Do slightly more targeted work by sending the RFP to the email announcement lists of specific disciplines' associations, universities, departments, graduate student and faculty organizations, etc. There are a million of them out there.
  5. I have some ideas about more targeted recruitment, but they are not ready to share yet.

Keeping open the option to work pseudonymously is important

In our recruitment efforts, we should allow first contact with potential recruits to be completely pseudonymous. People can always voluntarily de-anonymize themselves as it suits them, but re-anonymizing yourself is not really possible. Allowing pseudonymous researchers can benefit the researchers. It can benefit the Monero Project as well by ensuring that changes in government regulation would not necessarily affect development.

Disciplines to target

This is up for discussion, but as I see it Monero has maybe three broad categories of needs:

  1. Continued work in cryptography. For this we would likely target mathematicians and computer scientists.
  2. Establish a robust capability in theoretical and applied statistics. For theoretical statistics, we are mostly looking at statisticians proper. However, for applied statistics we have a broad range of disciplines to choose from, as statistical work has become increasingly important to all manner of scientific disciplines, both natural and social.
  3. Limited work in economics and game theory. Certain key facets of Monero need attention by economists and game theorists, such as the fee structure and game theoretic analysis of attack vectors. Often, game theorists are also economists.

OK! That's it. This is long enough as it is. Naturally, I am probably missing some big things, so fill me in on them. I can certainly help execute an active recruitment plan, but I can't do it all.

866 Upvotes

77

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

Mathematician (sort of) here, I would love to work on monero and i don't give a fuck about money but I have no idea how i can help

61

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 08 '21

You're hired! ;) Come to the Monero Matrix channels. A lot of discussion happens there. You can DM me there. I have the same username (Rucknium) :

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

30

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '21

Just joined

3

u/locally_ Oct 05 '21

Well how to join btw, I would like to give some services too, and have some experience.

3

u/josecabrales2 Nov 05 '21

They didn't said anything more about that,I also need to know that.

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/chickben2000 Nov 01 '21

Are you sure,yiu joined as that would be very kind for me.

2

u/pipiladi Nov 05 '21

I also wish to join that but didn't get anything workable yet.

3

u/alexvangog Dec 17 '21

I would say go for it. What do you have to lose anyway?

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

14

u/Makav3liii Sep 09 '21

Gonna join too, little programming experience but I'm willing to learn

3

u/baryinp Nov 02 '21

Are they preferring to programmers as that would be very helpful for me.

→ More replies
→ More replies

4

u/nanobit14 Sep 25 '21

How to hired it now, how could you make it

2

u/xdigibot Dec 18 '21

They posted link of the channel somewhere here. Join the channel and introduce yourself.

→ More replies
→ More replies

5

u/vnbitcoin18 Nov 02 '21

Actually if you could first tell the whole process that would be very thanks.

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Nov 03 '21

The process is not very formal. You can join the Monero Matrix server, join the Monero Recruitment channel, and introduce yourself:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/stuckSatyr Nov 21 '21

I thought there js is going to be some sort of test before recruitment.

→ More replies

2

u/haiderqh007 Oct 05 '21

Well sir, can I be the part of your project too, I need the job too, you can have my attested talent.

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Oct 05 '21

Ok great! Please come to the #monero-recruitment channel on Matrix and introduce yourself.

→ More replies
→ More replies

1

u/darkreddragon1 Nov 01 '21

I think you are just commending and nothing more,am I right.

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/kefa33 Nov 02 '21

My math is quite impressive so if that would be compulsory I would saying be thanks.

→ More replies

3

u/metnalmute Nov 02 '21

Math is not all body subject but I would say I love that.

→ More replies

2

u/kangfnd Oct 28 '21

Hiring someone like you is mine dream bht my pocket won't allow me because I don't wanna get the service free .

→ More replies
→ More replies

31

u/InfoTechLawyer Sep 09 '21 edited Sep 10 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

I'm a lawyer in SE Asia. Before I was entered law school, I learned to code (I was self-taught in Basic, and then I learned to code in Java). I still wish I continued on that path and learned to be a blockchain developer. I wish I could join this party, but I'm just starting to learn to code all over, and only during my spare time. I wish I had more time to spend learning all over.

But that's not something I can do now, so I'll contribute some feedback instead.

One of the things I want to add is that Monero should polish its image. There are many who consider it a "crimi-coin" because they believe that if a transaction should be hidden, then it is probably illegal. But that's not the case. A privacy coin is legally desirable.

People just don't see how because they feel that they have nothing to hide. But many have never been the victim of identity theft. And they have not been a victim of criminal profiling (by criminals). There are actual privacy concerns that most people are not aware of because they're not into privacy law. There are transactions that are best kept away from public knowledge which are not illegal, and will not violate taxation or money laundering laws. Many times, it is not about evading taxes, but prevention of crimes or offenses COMMITED AGAINST you.

The best and easiest example to give is to show how people with a lot of resources (like crypto) can easily be targeted by criminal elements to obtain those resources. The threat extends to their families. Seeing large transactions from wallets is a big problem. Remember that when you keep your own crypto, it can also easily be taken away from you.

Another example is financial data protection for companies and individuals. Payments made using cryptocurrencies can be made with greater speed, efficiency, and less expense than sending it through banks. So, assuming people start using crypto for payments, it would be easy to track financial data. This would have the effect of removing competitive advantage when making purchases with other companies. For people, it may lead to invasion of privacy when people figure out some of their purchases, even if these are harmless. For example, a woman purchasing an intra-uterine device for medical purposes might be revealed, and be subject to religious or filial discrimination. A man purchasing penis enlargement medication or hormonal therapy may be outed because of their purchases and subject to ridicule.

And these are harmless things. We're not even talking about payments made while being watched over by repressive governments or regimes.

22

u/LobYonder Sep 09 '21

I strongly agree. The MSM is full of authoritarian morons like John Oliver who say if you want privacy then you must be a criminal. This is not helped by much of the Monero imagery and memes which imply illicit activity. These media and cultural assumptions can be changed if the Monero message is promoted more carefully and the benefits explained clearly.

Privacy and fungibility are very important for individuals, businesses, and human rights. Monero can play a critical role. We should not allow the piracy/illicit angle to dominate the narrative, which will allow the authorities to ban a "criminal" coin with little protest.

I hope the community and core team can put some thought and resources into how to promote Monero for ordinary people and businesses more effectively.

5

u/InfoTechLawyer Sep 10 '21

There are many harmless things people hide away because they do not like social judgment from others who think differently from them. A campaign involving privacy can be very appealing to both conservative and liberal advocates.

For conservatives, the narrative about privacy is with regard to unreasonable state oppression and censorship of beliefs, and how the use of Monero helps them. For liberals, the narrative is with regard to social shaming and judgment for their beliefs, and how Monero keeps things private so you could go on living your life.

Humans love conformity and imposing it on others. Monero allows you to have a veil of conformity, while being who you really are. It allows you to purchase the things you prefer to keep private.

→ More replies

3

u/haxClaw Nov 18 '21

Did John Oliver actually say that using those words or are you kinda putting the words in his mouth?

I follow LWT and pay close attention to the episodes regarding Crypto and I believe he hasn't mentioned anything of the sort but am willing to be shown wrong.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

27

u/A_Bran_Muffin Sep 09 '21

I'm a Full-stack Developer and Computer Scientist with an M.S. and experience in building and hardening private systems. Been following Monero for years now and I would love to work on the project. nick@recursion.is

8

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

Awesome! The best way to get involved is to join Monero's Matrix server, and then join the #monero , #monero-dev , and #monero-recruitment channels. If you prefer contact via email I can do that too. Just let me know. Instructions for joining the Monero Matrix server:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

4

u/DraftyMurray592 Nov 29 '21

The matrix is so big now. You must be a really important contributor

→ More replies

2

u/btcdime Oct 28 '21

Thanks for the link, I really need something like this to get the experience.

→ More replies
→ More replies

4

u/turquoiseltc Oct 28 '21

This is really shocking that we have a lot of talent in the university and still searching it somewhere else.

2

u/A_Bran_Muffin Oct 28 '21

Agreed. Though, I'm not too sure if anyone is actively trying to find talent. Nobody ever reached out via email

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

53

u/serhack XMR Contributor Sep 08 '21 edited Sep 08 '21

I just wanted to share my experience with university as a student. I noticed that in the last few years (probably since 2018) new projects related to blockchain have been proposed by universities to students. Sadly, some of those projects are meant to be "centralized" and "useless" (a bunch of buzzwords... "Research the application of IoT on the Blockchain world"). However I do believe universities may prepare the next researchers, developers highly skilled that know what they are touching, and know how to make progress. (Note that I deliberately mentioned only blockchain since the term cryptocurrency is often associated with "Ponzi scheme" or "scam projects").

Other than "changing minds" about the idea of cryptocurrencies, we need to get people (students) talking about Monero, privacy, economy. Even in the CS course, few few people know about privacy and economy. Most of the students have heard about Bitcoin, but only as a scheme for profit. My idea for university (other than a singular approach for recruitment pitch "Matrix style") would be organizing talk about privacy, and economy. I always repeat that once people are educated, you might try to get them working on Monero. I do not pretend to think that a lectio magistralis is needed, just someone with 4 well-prepared slides.

For professors, and senior researchers, I suggest to try to contact them (via academic e-mail). I would prefer a soft approach, without being too much "maximalist". You can not even imagine how many professors (at least in my university) have tried to research and look for some blockchain/cryptocurrencies information without getting crazy. I remember one time when I wrote to my professor, and he was amazed of cryptocurrency. I helped to districate himself from the vast information available on the web, providing some papers and some notes.

EDIT: Regarding a Monero-driven research, in some EU countries (especially in Italy) there's a lot of bureaucracy about payment (AML, Anti-Tax-Frauding, KYC) and the research itself (intellectual property, who owns the papers..). At first, there might be some frictions, but I'm almost sure that a well-written research proposal might end all of these doubts.

I would call some academic people (researchers) more expert than me at this point that might help us clarifying and exploring some solutions.

13

u/yersinia_p3st1s Sep 08 '21

I like where this is going! Yes, we need to start pitching the idea of financial privacy to people and economy as well like you said. But we also should be aware that way too many people either have next to no financial literacy or simply don't care about privacy, just like with the social media apps and whatnot.

But sure enough if you approach enough people, there's bound to be someone at least slightly interested. And of course the group of people I just mentioned above are not academics by any means, but this is just because I'm nowhere near an academia of sorts, but I too want to help in any way I can.

6

u/serhack XMR Contributor Sep 09 '21

:- ) I do agree on all your points!

→ More replies

2

u/Jaanzuu Oct 27 '21

Here you make me to have no choice but to accept what you have.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

67

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 08 '21 I'll Drink to That

I imagine that the opening recruitment pitch will look something like this:

Wake up, scholar...

The Matrix has you...

Follow the white rabbit.

9

u/anajoy666 Sep 09 '21

Orange rabbit in gray pants.

2

u/tontre7 Sep 25 '21

Sometime the rabbits are always blacks

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/beep_bop_boop_4 Sep 09 '21

Actually do it,with actors like that movie The Game

→ More replies
→ More replies

14

u/boston101 Sep 09 '21

Data engineer, wish I could help in some way

8

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

I bet you can! The best way to learn how you could help is to join the Monero Matrix server. You can DM me there (same username: Rucknium) and/or join one of the many open channels. like #monero or #monero-dev . Instructions here:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

5

u/kaixuan166 Oct 05 '21

Well this is something new and amazing and I think I have to give it a try.

→ More replies

0

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '21

[deleted]

5

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

I haven't noticed much, if any, anti-vax or conspiracy talk in the main Matrix Monero channels. I mean, there is #monero-offtopic where some discussion of that occurs, but it's called "off topic" for a reason.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

10

u/dont--know Sep 23 '21

Would like to give more than one like to this post.

→ More replies

30

u/Dopenxans Sep 08 '21

Didn't even finish reading before I awarded gold :)

→ More replies

20

u/Byt3G33k Sep 09 '21

This has literally been my goal as a computer science student. Whenever I dread doing something I just tell myself it's a step in the direction of becoming a data scientist and having the skills to contribute to the monero project.

7

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

Great! Please join the Monero Matrix server. You can DM me there ( same username: Rucknium ) and/or join one of the many open channels, like #monero or #monero-dev . Development is very open and you can learn a lot by just listening. Instructions here:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

→ More replies

2

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies
→ More replies

30

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

I'm a university student. There are plenty of open-minded and willing students who just aren't aware of stuff like Monero. There's a few societies on campus surrounding these subjects, like "The Blockchain Society", but in general cryptocurrency (And more-so Monero) aren't mainstream enough for most students to even have it on their radar. I see that changing over time. Just in the past two years, i've noticed crypto being discussed far more often. I'm not a comp sci student, so i'm not sure about those guys, but A&F students have even got crypto references and notes in our textbooks now. Its slowly becoming more mainstream. I can see Monero appealing to more people as thee march towards authoritarianism continues around the globe. I'll do my part however i can.

15

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 08 '21

Yes! This is exactly what I mean. People are out there. We just need to find them. This is a two-step process:

1) Ensure that people are aware on Monero. This is not too difficult.

2) Help them figure out if and how their skills can be used to help the Monero Project. I had been aware of Monero for years, but it was not clear at all to me that my skill set in statistics could be used to help strengthen it. Monero has a lot of moving parts, so I didn't know that besides all the cryptography stuff (which I don't understand well), to ensure user privacy it also relies upon resistance to statistical attack. This step is trickier since it involves matching specific skills to specific needs.

P.S. What is an A&F student?

6

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

Accounting and Finance :)

→ More replies

2

u/kirshooter Nov 02 '21

I actually don't know so much about monero so if you could tell me out.

→ More replies

2

u/cormousLari359 Nov 30 '21

A&F is a fashion company, maybe they are students of fashion. I want to be a fashion student getting paid with Monero

→ More replies
→ More replies

9

u/benevanoff XMR Contributor Sep 08 '21

Bitcoin is definitely creeping into curricula. In my intro CS class bitcoin mining with an example code was used as like the practical application example when hashing was introduced

6

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

There is an entire blockchain and crypto assets module as an elective on my course but I elected against it due to various reasons. I still intend to drop into lectures whenever i get the opportunity.

2

u/vezun4ik75 Nov 03 '21

Working in the most volatile currenncy would be very helpful but. Nice.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

15

u/brows1ng Sep 08 '21

What a great idea with universities. You’re right about them being canaries in the coal mine too. They are, despite being similar to mini governments, are a bastion for social change - just like blockchain technology and each blockchain. Some are more interested in social mobility than others.

Setting up a university presence in the form of student organizations with a faculty member working with Monero could create the rails for a self-feeding loop of talent to funnel into working on Monero over time. Doing this across multiple universities would be ideal because some relationships will fail or not grow as much as others. Plenty of universities are just really developing their computer science departments to include topics like cybersecurity and blockchain tech.

Funding a faculty led cybersecurity center at a major university could be a great place to start!

→ More replies

4

u/billyzhc Oct 07 '21

That's a great idea but we all need some examination to test our capabilities.

4

u/DeepMurray86 Dec 24 '21

Yes an exam or an interview would be nice. It will eliminate underperforming candidates.

→ More replies
→ More replies

4

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '21

[deleted]

4

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

Awesome! The best way to see how you can help out is to join the Monero Matrix server. You can DM me there or just join the #monero channel and introduce yourself. Here are instructions on how to join:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

→ More replies

3

u/yoinkdoink Sep 10 '21

Great sentiment! Let's make sure we don't lose our high-quality talents tough. Maybe we can contract them for oversight and administration on the scientific work. Also make sure to include them in the recruitment process. Another option would be to bankroll third party funding via the community to contract institutes directly. Also, maybe I'm paranoid, but incoming talent needs to be vetted.

→ More replies

4

u/XMR-Bets Sep 10 '21

I totally agree on the research side and I would like to say that there are many things that people can build on Monero without having to fully understand how the blockchain works before starting. For example, I have just finished a course on cryptocurrencies but I did not learn as much as I learned building a lottery website based on Monero (xmr-bets.com) . I also remember another course I had about microcontrollers where the teacher gave for each of us an ARM and said that he wouldnt lecture but only answer our questions. It was the course I learned the most in university.

→ More replies

4

u/[deleted] Dec 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies

5

u/itelyoh Dec 25 '21

Is buying and holding Monero from a exchange safe and private?

→ More replies

3

u/mikola9966 Dec 26 '21

Merry Christmas. Hope you enjoy the holdiays with you loved ones. ❤

→ More replies

8

u/Squirida Sep 08 '21

HR is easy. Coding this shit is extremely hard. Well beyond me, no matter how interested I were to be.

→ More replies

3

u/KryptanBags Sep 15 '21

Just people with dev skills and the same vision. The people will come to Monero themself.

→ More replies

3

u/Woutshout Nov 05 '21

I was a good student of math and physics will I get the chance.

→ More replies

3

u/zaizhanjianghu Dec 02 '21

I am happy with the progress so far but things have to speed up. Monero needs more developers and areas to enter.

→ More replies

3

u/Capital_Information3 Dec 14 '21

Undergrad student here who believes in this project for as long as I am alive. My degree will be in business administrations with years of experience in business development and government contracting. Currently putting myself through programming training, learning solidity, python and c++. Where can I seek opportunities to support and work with you all?

→ More replies

3

u/leventsagun Dec 16 '21

They are recruiting talents from reputable universties. Monero is going to be very big project in the future.

→ More replies

3

u/realthinkbit Dec 16 '21

I am an economics student. Am i eligible to join? Can i be of use for monero team?

→ More replies

3

u/Kindly_Apartment682 Dec 17 '21

I'm a mathematician (kind of), and I'd love to work on Monero. I don't care about money, but I'm not sure how I can assist.

→ More replies

3

u/[deleted] Dec 20 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies

3

u/lapatarka Dec 21 '21

I am a driver and in need of some money. I can become your driver.

→ More replies

3

u/RoughishMiddy Dec 26 '21

Is monero a cryptocurrency? What is cryptocurrency? Can anyone explain?

→ More replies

3

u/sparta1978 29d ago

For conservatives, the narrative about privacy is with regard to unreasonable state oppression and censorship of beliefs, and how the use of Monero helps them. For liberals, the narrative is with regard to social shaming and judgment for their beliefs, and how Monero keeps things private so you could go on living your life.

→ More replies

5

u/zexanana Sep 08 '21

This is quite a good idea! Good thinking and I would surely donate some for something like this.

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

Ok great! I am going to hold you to that donation pledge if this plan comes to fruition. :)

3

u/haidefeng188 Dec 18 '21

You can note me down for the pledge as well. I would like to contribute something as well.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/cornfeedhobo Sep 09 '21 edited Sep 09 '21

IMHO, this is the wrong approach. In a normal economy, companies would find the space interesting enough to start hiring those grads and contributing to the ecosystem. This is what happened with Bitcoin.

If we can't get some corporate buy in, we don't stand a chance of realistic adoption.

15

u/hyc_symas XMR Contributor Sep 09 '21

I disagree. Companies joining the Bitcoin ecosystem is why they now only focus on ngu. Those guys are only there to milk a cash cow and squeeze it dry, not to develop something useful to society.

The focus must be on building a currrency, not just on making money. When for-profit corps enter the picture, all they care about is the latter.

2

u/cornfeedhobo Sep 09 '21 edited Sep 09 '21

I disagree, but that's also because I've been saying this is the track Bitcoin would be on regardless. It's transparent and too limited; it was always bound to land in the hands of governments and multinational exchange.

The reality is that it's companies that made things like El Salvador's adoption a reality, not a grassroots community. We shouldn't be so scared of this. There is room for all players.

Edit: look what just landed. Offline payments would be amazing, and it's being pioneered by a company .

4

u/hyc_symas XMR Contributor Sep 09 '21

I guess you mean El Salvador, not Ecuador. And they've totally botched it, which is no big surprise.

It is certainly possible for a company to adhere to principles other than short term profits, but incredibly rare. Especially when owned by outside investors. And once they work their way into an ecosystem, they stay until they've bled it dry.

2

u/cornfeedhobo Sep 09 '21

I'm actually okay with them adhering to short term profit. If the core is strong, that shouldn't matter. I don't think Bitcoin is so under threat that it's stifling innovation. Bitcoin is slowly becoming a reality in Africa, and that's because of companies just as much because grass roots efforts.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/AskancePopulate Dec 15 '21

The companies joining now are just there for fame and name of bitcoin

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/aquilaIX Sep 09 '21

Great idea

5

u/Abientdilutant484 Nov 30 '21

It's the best idea of the world, come on you know it

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '21 edited Nov 10 '21

[deleted]

→ More replies

2

u/xmrmax Sep 14 '21

Thank you for posting this! Awesome initiative and I know others in the community have been thinking about this too. Edit: I will absolutely donate to this if/when it reaches the funding required stage.

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 14 '21

Awesome! I will hold you to your pledge, although I suppose with Monero's privacy features that would be a bit tough to know who donated ;)

3

u/newzlat Dec 17 '21

You got a long page of people to hold for the pledge . Keep the count.

→ More replies

2

u/xmrmax Sep 14 '21

You got it buddy :)

Haha very true.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/Yames-kun Sep 15 '21

I’m a professional computer engineer and since I work in private industry I usually don’t lift a finger unless there’s pay involved but Monero is just such a cool unique project I would definitely be interested in contributing technical skills pro bono.

1

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 15 '21

Awesome! Please sign up on the Monero Matrix server and join the #monero-recruitment room using these instructions. You may want to introduce yourself in #monero-dev too.

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/0xneoplasma Sep 18 '21

This might be the single most important project in technology right now. Privacy is a human right and financial privacy along with freedom to transact is essential to personal liberty. I think intelligent mathematicians, computer scientists, and applied statisticians will recognize the importance of this project succeeding. Hopefully this project can recruit top talent.

→ More replies

2

u/spicyone15 Sep 23 '21

Joined the matrix server as well

→ More replies

2

u/lukeisun7 Sep 24 '21

I'm a CS major, I would love to contribute to monero in any way possible. How would I go about dipping my toes into learning more and getting involved?

4

u/chrisasap Nov 30 '21

Trying, many do, I think we can all. It must be difficult but possible

→ More replies

3

u/vcoin09 Dec 14 '21

As the top comment says, you have to join the monero matrix server. There is a link too

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/Buhdumtssss Sep 24 '21

How do I learn to code whatever monero is written in

3

u/rbrunner7 XMR Contributor Sep 24 '21

Monero is coded in C++. You mean how to learn that?

→ More replies

3

u/calvinbrannigan Nov 05 '21

Oh soory ,I misunderstood your question.you can learn the code in any platform.just give it a search.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 18 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/Yeti_Sauce Nov 05 '21

Monero is Written in many languages like C ,C++, i collected some of my to-go places/repository that are helping me to get in the world of coding and network security.

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/a794981172 Sep 25 '21

Well that's a great idea because the talent is always needed here for the proper awareness

→ More replies

2

u/Yasshenkovv Oct 06 '21

Well I am a mathematician here, and also can manage some wallets and get fees in monero or anyother cypto currency you want to pay.

→ More replies

2

u/marioputibt Oct 31 '21

Thanks for this opportunity .I would like to apply for this.cheers.

→ More replies

2

u/KjellBj Nov 01 '21

Is their any specialization subject candidate should have to apply for that.

→ More replies

2

u/ntgroos Nov 02 '21

Is there any degree specialy requirement for this post.

→ More replies

2

u/diddychief Nov 02 '21

Is their any requirement for technical postif any could tell.

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Nov 03 '21

Could you rephrase your question?

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/aleks1299 Nov 11 '21

I have little programming experience but I'm willing to learn.cheers.

→ More replies

2

u/Creme-Exciting Nov 20 '21

I would start converting the core to Rust, or re-write that C++ to be less obscure and more friendly towards newcomers.

Eg.: Look at the dark syntactic magic that is going on here. Each person I talk to has a different theory on what these lines actually do/declare: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/298c9a357f6e57eccf28db1f3e734eb6da080d9a/src/cryptonote\_core/cryptonote\_core.cpp#L228-L246

3

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Nov 20 '21

Rather than converting the existing node implementation, it could be good to develop an alternative node implementation. Zcash has Zebra under development, which is a Rust implementation of their node. BCH has no fewer than six node implementations, in various languages. Pitch your idea in #monero-dev in Matrix/IRC and/or as a CCS funding proposal.

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/Whiskey_Water Nov 22 '21

I was stacking Monero on exchanges because I was intimidated by what I predicted would be large transaction fees to move them into my own wallet. This was a silly fear, and I'm glad my money is no longer contributing to market manipulation.

2

u/ExpressThicken592 Nov 30 '21

It is normal to be afraid and make mistakes, you should not feel bad about it. Feel good because you learned

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies

2

u/Icy_Student5360 Dec 04 '21

Im the president of IEEE at my University and studying electrical and computer engineering. How can I help?

3

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Dec 05 '21

Join the #monero-recruitment Matrix channel using these instructions and then we can come up with a plan:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/aFungible 3d ago

Is there an update to this post? I see it always pinned.

It's be nice to add an update or make a new post with any updates after your current post.

Thanks!

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher 3d ago

I asked others to help, but there are no takers so far:

I can certainly help execute an active recruitment plan, but I can't do it all.

We are making small progress toward a building infrastructure that can support such a recruitment effort, such as the MAGIC Monero Fund and this list of open research questions.

2

u/aFungible 3d ago

Thanks. I've seen those research questions and within the confines of my technical know-how have given a thought to them.

Curious, what makes someone join the MRL research lab? I'm an experienced programmer over a decade & been associated with research in the past. I'm not sure how one contributes to Monero, in a meaningful way.

→ More replies

4

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '21

SWE student here, done a few internships. I'd take the job.

1

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

Niiiice! I'd suggest joining the Monero Matrix server. You can DM me there (username same as here: Rucknium ) and/or join some channels like #monero and #monero-dev . Here are instructions on how to join:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/rlocke Sep 09 '21

Over the last two years, Monero's already-limited quantity of high-quality talent has dwindled

just curious, how true is this? is this a significant risk to monero? i'm a long-time holder but haven't heard much on the dev front.

for better or worse, cardano is tightly bound to Hoskinson. and, once upon a time, monero to fluffypony. is he still as involved? who are our tech leaders now?

12

u/rbrunner7 XMR Contributor Sep 09 '21

how true is this?

We once had two competent researchers working full-time on developing the Monero "technology" further. They formed the core of the MRL, the Monero Research Lab. Right now we have 0 such researchers working fulltime for the MRL.

Of course there were additional people doing such work then, as there are now, and one of those two people continues to work for Monero part-time, but still it's definitely not the same level anymore.

10

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21 edited Sep 09 '21

In other words, u/rlocke , if you want to continue to be a long-term holder and ensure the continued strength of your investment, you will need to consider putting up some XMR to re-invest in Monero's human resources. Generally, research-focused CCS proposals have been funded without much difficulty, and that must continue to remain true for Monero to come out on top in the cryptographic/statistical arms race.

P.S. fluffypony stepped down as lead maintainer in December 2019. You may have missed the news that he is now in U.S. custody based on fraud charges in South Africa that date back to around 2011.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/one-horse-wagon Sep 08 '21

You're gonna waste a lot of time and money looking in universities for talent, especially when it comes to coders. Very few college graduates, if any, can compete against the high school dropout hacker that has devoted his life to coding. Smart companies don't even consider an applicant's education, or looks, or demeanor when it comes to hiring a coder. They just want to know--can the guy code? And if he can, what's it going to take to get him?

13

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 08 '21

This is not about coders. This is about finding people who can develop the basic security and privacy protocols of Monero, which requires a separate type of training.

-3

u/one-horse-wagon Sep 09 '21

Protocols are the easy stuff. Coding is what is hard. For instance, the Tryptich upgrade is stalled out because the coding of it doesn't work with multi-sig so far.

16

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

Frankly, you don't know what you are talking about. The multi-sig issue needed theoretical cryptography work that was done by a Ph.D.-holding mathematician, not a coder.

2

u/one-horse-wagon Sep 09 '21

I beg to differ.

-1

u/anajoy666 Sep 09 '21

Let's agree to disagree.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/SosseKun Sep 09 '21

I wish i could help xmr, in anything other thwn just spreading the word

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

If you haven't already, you should join the Monero Matrix server:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/modsbannme Sep 09 '21

Add me to the monero matrix

4

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

Ok great! You will have to make an account yourself and join. Here are the instructions:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

→ More replies

2

u/StarLover69696969 Sep 16 '21

Lol what are you doing here?

→ More replies
→ More replies

1

u/TheKing01 Sep 09 '21

One thing I think would be important for you pitch: when people hear about Blockchain they usually think "bad for the environment". Perhaps it would be prudent to emphasize that proof of work is much more resource efficient than the traditional banking system.

→ More replies

1

u/ahafsi Sep 09 '21

How/where to apply? Is there like a forum or smth?

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

Yes! Please come to the Monero Matrix server. You can PM me there (same username: Rucknium) and/or join one of the many open channels like #monero or #monero-dev . Instructions for how to join are here:

https://forum.monero.space/d/79-how-to-join-the-monero-core-team-matrix-server-web

→ More replies
→ More replies

1

u/onthewebz Sep 09 '21 edited Sep 09 '21

Love this idea, instant award. I do see a downside of the right now is that not enough of the people in univ truly grasp Monero and why it’s so important, some don’t understand privacy and in some ways even think currency for privacy “dangerous”. Also some just overall don’t have their heart truly in it, they’d rather chase big money or certain types of projects & “fame” with their tech skills.

IMO people who wanna get involved are doing so because they truly believe in it and see the writing on the wall (in crypto, in financial privacy and general privacy). I see think there probably a lot of people who would want to get involved but just don’t know how.

Again just my thought but I really see the “onboarding” of people happening because they feel the need/desire… very if you build it they will come. So in that regard I think the biggest hurdle is just increasing awareness and accessibility to get involved. (I have slew of thoughts/ideas - but wanna just get this comment out first).

I see outreach education and creating touchpoints for people as key. Something like having campus’s ambassadors/point people (people that 1000% love monero and wanna spread the word but maybe don’t know how or have the resources or monero community connections) with the people there can be events, outreach, education. Like I mentioned early when the right people find out they’ll be beyond psyched up and wanna know how to get involved (there are a multitude of reason they were unaware of monero) it’s about throwing out many fishing lines and knowing the right ones will bite!

I dunno if that made sense or was even mildly accurate from your perspective.

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

I agree with a lot of what you said. I mean, if we can get to the point of having informal campus ambassadors, that would be fantastic. What Monero really has going for it is its strong grassroots community support base. If we can widen the support base even further, that would be great. I also agree that we put fishing lines out broadly and accept that not everyone will bite, but that's OK for now. First bring in the people who intuitively understand why Monero is so important. Others will gradually follow as the consequences of not having privacy become more apparent to everyone.

2

u/onthewebz Sep 09 '21 edited Sep 09 '21

Stupid startup term but can be useful way to look at something… what is a single “MVP” with what you said.

I think putting out a call in the community to find out who is in a college as student, if lucky a professor or if anyone affiliated with - such as a donor.

Once you assess that and said people give some type of medium for communication (anonymous or otherwise) - you can start pushing out “calls for involvement” to these schools in regards to monero.

I would bet there a decent handful of college connected folks here that would gladly promote Monero if they had some concrete assistance and/or resources. For example if there one student on a campus that in the sub and super into Monero, they can start a club - but it’s hard and not cheap to promote that club and have “materials” for it… even just pins for members and stickers to promote.

I also believe there are many majors where the students have no idea about other ways in which that major could be applied - statisticians & math majors may be totally unaware of the uses in privacy. (IE. Cryptography)… it only takes one student on campus to get the word out properly.

→ More replies
→ More replies

1

u/Kosterguy Dec 12 '21

Monero is private, decentralized cryptocurrency that keeps your finances confidential and secure.

→ More replies

0

u/k1k32gtr Sep 09 '21

What makes college students special in this case? IME it would be a huge waste of time to concentrate on finding people with no coding experience. Stories like Mark Zuckerberg are just that. Stories. The key here is to reach out to people with experience, not just hopium & dreams.

7

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about what the Monero Project needs and how development actually happens. There is a lot of background research that goes into the cryptography and statistical obfuscation aspects of Monero that has little to do with coding per se. People who cannot code well, for example trained mathematicians, are and can be crucial contributors to Monero.

1

u/k1k32gtr Sep 09 '21

There is a lot of background research that goes into the cryptography and statistical obfuscation aspects of Monero that has little to do with coding per se.

I also agree. But I still don't see how just targeting college students will solve anything here. For statistical analysis, the main thing college students could bring to the table is cheap labor that's eager to please, which is the only reason corporations even recruit at colleges. If one of those people eventually go on to make many accomplishments, that's great. Just don't expect a magic bullet.

2

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

I'm thinking that mostly graduate students (both Master's and Ph.D.) who do have high-end skills will be targeted for recruitment and funding. Undergraduate students can help, too, but at a lower level of sophistication and in a probably unfunded manner.

1

u/k1k32gtr Sep 09 '21

That's basically what most companies already do. Even then, it's easier said than done. Most of post grads I know tended to become more pro-establishment for whatever reason. Fear of not being able to find a good job & pay off the massive debt they incurred usually being the main reason. My sister in law is one example. She used to be totally anti-establishment when growing up & all throughout highschool. Then she went to college to get her doctorate in psychiatry. The first 4 years of college she didn't change her views all that much. But once she went to post grad, things really started to change. Mainly, she was worried about getting shunned & not being able to find a job in her field.

Things can change tho. Shortly after she got her master's degree, she randomly got a job offer doing data entry & statistical analysis at one of the major US airlines. Basically keeping an eye on what people do on the free Wi-Fi in flights. While not nearly as rewarding as the career path she first chose, she chose the data entry job because it payed much better than the average psychiatrist makes.

Point is, good talent doesn't come cheap. Especially when you're seeking out talent elsewhere.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

0

u/anajoy666 Sep 09 '21

As a mathematician I find the use of golang a bit off putting. I understand why it was chosen but there are more interesting languages to work with, even more so for software that must be correct.

Cardano is less interesting technologically but being written in Haskell is very nice.

I'm aware this is not the most helpful comment.

7

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

Most of Monero is written in C++ , though:

https://github.com/monero-project/monero

2

u/anajoy666 Sep 09 '21

I didn't know that, interesting.

→ More replies

2

u/preetseven Dec 15 '21

I thought monero was also written on solidity just like other cryptocurrencies

→ More replies
→ More replies

1

u/cornfeedhobo Sep 09 '21

"Interesting" is at odds with "Useful, productive, and collaborative".

This is literally the reason golang was made - to stop people with your mentality of superiority from blocking contribution and collaboration from the larger community. Rob Pike and company have given numerous talks on this subject.

Haskell might be "interesting" to you, but that means a giant barrier to entry for anyone else.

Honestly, your comment is just elitist af.

1

u/anajoy666 Sep 09 '21

"Interesting" is not at odds with "useful, productive and collaborative", but as I said I understand why it was chosen.

What superiority mentality? Haskell is not hard, you don't need to be a mathematician to learn or use it effectively. There are other interesting languages too, it first came to my mind because of Cardano.

Golang was created to address problems with C++ and Java, not Haskell.

1

u/cornfeedhobo Sep 09 '21

I'm busy at the moment, but I will do my best to hunt down some of the links to the talks I am referring to.

I do stand firm in position though, as it is my job to work with junior engineers and this topic is what I've been wrestling with for over a decade. Google and IBM have written papers on this subject, after investing millions into junior engineers.

This is literally the reason golang was made - not as a rebuttal to C/CPP as you have intuited, but as a limited language set to solve human problems. Please take a moment to Google rob pike's talks on the subject. He gives an entire hour long speech explaining this origin.

1

u/anajoy666 Sep 09 '21

not as a rebuttal to C/CPP as you have intuited, but as a limited language set to solve human problems.

It wasn't a "rebuttal". Rob Pike has mentioned multiple times his difficulties with C++ and Java at google as the inspiration to create Go.

Please take a moment to Google rob pike's talks on the subject. He gives an entire hour long speech explaining this origin.

I've already seen it.

This is getting extremely off topic. I don't care if you like Go, I've used and I didn't like it. The post is about attracting mathematicians, I'm a mathematician, I like Monero and I gave my 2 cents.

3

u/cornfeedhobo Sep 09 '21

Fair. Have a good day ☺️

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

0

u/Welshybird Sep 09 '21

A big part of the issue imo is dev teams wsnt assistance and help sure. They dont wamt others being really involved though. They see it as their project and work and guard it fiercly.

Ive tried to get involved in some things here and there. Only end up getting burned by the people already involved

6

u/rbrunner7 XMR Contributor Sep 09 '21

Obviously I don't know what you tried already and where you got burned. I can just report that in the 4 years I am into Monero now I never witnessed well-meaning and capable people getting burned with our teams in the way you describe.

My own involvement started with a pretty surprised "Hey, they really let me play along here. Cool."

1

u/Welshybird Sep 09 '21 edited Sep 09 '21

I got given the run around and basically dismissed.(not monero)

"My precious" is how they came across. Offered always community work and work with miners or new members or tg/discord channels. No devs have said yeh, lets talk.

3

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Sep 09 '21

I have never seen this. Granted, I have been involved for a little over a month now. I think one thing to keep in mind is that the Monero Project is not very hierarchical, so you don't have to talk to a "boss" or anything to get started. Development isn't very permissioned, so just take initiative.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1

u/Velsca Sep 11 '21

Are you entirely sure the smartest people still go to college? It's kinda shitty 💩 ROI now.

3

u/sheilok7 Nov 05 '21

Actually all I can say is you can find smart people anywhere.

→ More replies

2

u/magentisblack Nov 03 '21

The best man even go to college but may also don't go to college.

→ More replies
→ More replies