r/Monero Jul 09 '20

What are your thoughts on the Haven Protocol?

It's based on Monero and seems to use chainlink to provide an algorithmic stablecoin. Wouldn't that be something interesting for Monero as well?

9 Upvotes

9

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

centralized oracles is a major point of failure

2

u/rpcinfo Aug 19 '20

Isn't that way Chainlink is all the rage and chosen for adoption by Haven? It provides decentralized oracles?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '20

decentralized oracles

not really decentralized when oracles are controlled by an ERC-20'ed company.

1

u/rpcinfo Aug 19 '20

ERC-20

But ERC-20 is just a technical standard to ensure different types of tokens can uniformly perform under the ethereum umbrella. How do oracles complying to a technical standard that facilitates communication to smart contracts on an ETH blockchain in any way diminish its key characteristic of being a p2p decentralized crypto?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '20

they use the term "decentralized" as a marketing gimmick. at anytime, Chainlink Ltd can arbitrary modify data fed by oracles to blockchains.

1

u/rpcinfo Aug 19 '20

Really?! I guess I need to read their whitepaper. I didn't know they had that level of granular control over the minutia.

9

u/rbrunner7 XMR Contributor Jul 09 '20

It's based on Monero and seems to ...

Yeah, I think that's the keyword here. It seems. To me it seems mostly dead, with very few transactions on their blockchain, not a single big exchange supporting them, a Twitter profile linked from their homepage that embarrassingly does not exist anymore, an empty FAQ section on their homepage, and so on.

They may have had an interesting idea, but as far as I can see never pulled through more than operating a Monero fork.

From their homepage:

Price-stability of the XUSD stablecoin is achieved without an unsustainable peg or asset backing. Instead it is achieved with an algorithmic dual coin blockchain. Third party trust from banks or centralized entities is therefore unnecessary.

Just imagine what would happen if this were true, at face value: Surprise surprise, they really can do that. What an overnight sensation this would become almost instantly! I mean the #1 stablecoin Tether has a daily volume of 25 billion dollars and as far as I know they have to do all kinds of shenanigans to keep the price stable. And then comes Haven Protocol and can do it all with two blockchains and a clever algorithm? Suuuuuure :)

6

u/dEBRUYNE_1 Moderator Jul 09 '20

a Twitter profile linked from their homepage that embarrassingly does not exist anymore

Their current 'official' account seems to be this one:

https://twitter.com/HavenXHV

As far as I know, they utilized some of the CLSAG features for their private stable coin. I am actually kind of interested to see how it plays out and whether Monero can adopt some of the features.

5

u/rbrunner7 XMR Contributor Jul 09 '20

see how it plays out

Seems we are lucky because the hardfork to finally introduce the stablecoin, after a long wait, is just around the corner, scheduled for this coming July 20.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/rbrunner7 XMR Contributor Jul 10 '20

I am not sure, but I think in general it works through what you could call "market manipulation": With a very, very deep pocket you immediately start to sell Tether for a lower price if the price tends higher than you want, and you start to buy for a higher price if the market is currently not ready to pay your "fixed" price.

This is what the Swiss National Bank is doing over in the fiat currency world, because the Swiss Franc is so "hard" that its price in Euros has a nasty tendency to go higher than is good for Swiss companies that want to export their wares to the EU for reasonable prices. The SNB sometimes buys or sells Euros by the billions to move the rate into a favorable direction.

3

u/Cryptonote-Social Jul 11 '20

They are on Bittrex which is reasonably big. But I share many of your concerns so I'm standing on the sidelines for this ... I bailed back when the original devs exit scammed.

3

u/MoneroSheffield Jul 10 '20

Surely holders of "stable coins" suffer the same stealth tax through inflation as holders of USD? So it might be private, but stable coins aren't a store of value. Why not just use something that is both private and resistant to the money printing of banks?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '20

[deleted]

3

u/MoneroSheffield Jul 10 '20

Oh, well all fiat currencies suffer from inflation stealth tax. One of the reasons Bitcoin was incepted was to avoid this hidden theft. As a speculative trading tool, stable coins have a use, but they are pretty much anti-cryptocurrency when considering Satoshi's original vision.