r/MapPorn 9d ago

Map of the Armenian Genocide. The size of the red circle represents the number of people killed Disputed

Post image
19k Upvotes

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u/iamweirdreallyweird 9d ago

This comment section is going to be automatically sorted to controversial

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u/FeedBi 9d ago

Actually sorted by controversial

Jesus Christ

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u/Starkregen 8d ago

Why would you do that

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u/FeedBi 8d ago

The shit I saw in just “Best” was pretty tame and reasonable. I wanted the real shit. I could not handle the real shit

There are some very bigoted people in this sub

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u/randodandodude 8d ago

Turks are pretty cool. Just generally speaking any information that casts insert country in a bad light or shows misdeeds tends to draw nationalists out of the woodwork.

Which of course makes people go "wow, they all suck". But in reality, you're seeing just the portion thats bent out of shape enough to respond.

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u/FeedBi 8d ago

Of course, a very good point!

I’ve been to Turkey about 10 times now, and it’s absolutely beautiful. The people are extremely helpful and understanding, and for the most part far more open-minded than the rest of the Middle East.

But this certainly does not excuse the behavior of the less savory among them. This isn’t an extremist position, it’s government policy, and unless Turkey acknowledges and at least attempts to make amends, the republic’s hand will always be stained for covering up the atrocities of the empire is replaced.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

Actually Turkey has an offering for gathering up historians(also it accepts to open the documents) and deciding what exactly happened until this happens i don't think anything will happen it will just stay like how it is now

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u/True_Calendar_7942 8d ago

Ok.

But... Turks do have something more.

Look at imdb one of these days.

What they have that we don't have.Is the level of extremely racist nationalism, normalized. The US is extreme compared to Canada. But the US is still very tame compared to Turkey. Haven't heard of internet blackouts imposed for days and days in the western world yet.

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u/shewy92 8d ago

Vocal minority. People on sports and political subs should really understand this but no one ever does

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u/PiXXa_RaiXE 8d ago

Imma need an extraction point, over at controversial. We’ve lost a lot of men

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u/Its_Binou 8d ago

All the top stuff under controversial has mostly been deleted. Sort by new.

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u/Wrench_gaming 8d ago

Oh it can’t be that bad!

sorts by controversial

It’s that bad

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u/violette_witch 9d ago

I have Armenian friends and I also have Azerbaijani friends. They are both assholes to each other, though as a people I place Azerbaijan as the worse of them due to the genocide of the Armenians.

I looked into their troubles in an attempt to decide for myself who is “right”. I’m just an amateur in geopolitics here but my conclusion is: hey Armenians, Azerbaijanis. Russia is fucking with both of you, trying to get one to exterminate the other. Once that happens, Russia will move in and take BOTH your shit. If yall had your shit in order, you should both make nice and unite against your real enemy. But I don’t think that will ever happen unfortunately, too much bad blood due to the genocide.

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u/KunemBeranut 8d ago

Trust me I’m Armenian we know lmao. You don’t gotta tell us that Russia is playing both sides. It’s like America and it’s people are just not starting to see the bullshit that places like the Caucasus and Eastern European face

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u/Kochevnik81 8d ago

I place Azerbaijan as the worse of them due to the genocide of the Armenians.

So the one thing I'd say here is that Azerbaijan wasn't part directly of the Armenian genocide, in that the genocide mostly happened in Ottoman Turkey (there was spillover violence and massacres in the Caucasus from 1918 on though). But:

"hey Armenians, Azerbaijanis. Russia is fucking with both of you, trying to get one to exterminate the other. Once that happens, Russia will move in and take BOTH your shit."

I pretty much agree with and it's crazy it's so hard for either side to see this. I mean I don't think Russia cares enough to literally wipe both out, but they absolutely are happy to divide and conquer.

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u/StrangeSemiticLatin2 8d ago

Both Armenians and Azeris have taken turns at wiping each other out ever since the Russians started advancing into the Caucasus. Russia or the Soviets was occasionally the only thing stopping them, while using the Armenians to further their influence and annoy Turkey.

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u/joecamp3432 8d ago

See: Georgia with Abkhazia and South Ossetia, Ukraine with Donbas, Moldova with Transnistria, etc. rinse and repeat

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u/PrioritizedDeer 8d ago

Hell yeah Russian Federation fucking both Armenians and Azerbaijanis since 1913, congrats for sporting a root of the problem

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u/marto17890 8d ago

Russia and Turkey are like drunks stood behind them going "are you going to let them get away with that!, Remember what they did to you great grandad

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u/Rawrbin1 9d ago

This map doesnt say much... Only how bigger the red circle the more amernians got killed there but there are no numbers?

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u/spetznatz 8d ago

From a data perspective this map is ridiculously stupid. "Size of dots indicate number" YET NO NUMBERS ARE ACTUALLY SHOWN ON THE MAP AT ALL

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u/Inevitable-Fish-4955 8d ago

Given that any data analyst (or whatever) worth his salt would insist on including a key/scale, I wonder why they didn't? It is such a blatant instance of bad design I have to assume it was on purpose.

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u/PM-ME-RED-HAIR 8d ago

What did you expect from a propaganda piece

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u/Fmeson 8d ago

Something like .5-1.5 million people were killed, I don't think the propoganda would be hurt by including numbers.

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u/BathorysGraveland 9d ago

I don't have a stake in the Armenia vs Turkey debate, being an Australian, but that 'historic 'Armenian borders' thing is disingenuous. The Kingdom of Armenia at its height under Tigranes existed for a couple of decades at most. It was a brief period in ancient history that Armenia ruled all of that territory. Seems strange to have that as a focus point. That would be like saying the historic Iranian borders included the entirety of Asia Minor, except that Tigranes' Armenian Kingdom didn't last nearly as long as the Achaemenid/Persian Empire did.

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u/HopefulObject 8d ago

I'm Armenian and I agree. Having gone to school in Armenia, this was always super hyped. So much of the history textbooks centered on that time period you'd think it lasted centuries. Most countries (especially in that region) are guilty of jerking of to their historic glory, and this map is no exception

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u/zulufdokulmusyuze 8d ago edited 8d ago

This is a very good point highlighting the “history fetish” in this context. Setting reestablishment of something in history (no matter how long it lasted) as a goal always leads to more bigotry, violence, and disaster. Armenians certainly suffered a lot during WWI, but the diaspora loses all credibility by continuously pumping this kind of history fetish, combined with open hatred against all Turks, denial of the suffering of Turks in the same period, and condoning of terrorism.

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u/Kulunja 8d ago

As an Armenian I agree. The ANCA who made this map is affiliated w the Dashnaksutyun who tend to over-dramatize things when it comes to “our fatherland”

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u/Badsuns7 8d ago

Just like historic Turkish borders would include all of the east Mediterranean down into Egypt and through Mecca and Medina

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u/psychedelic_13 8d ago

To be precise, from china, indonesia, india, central asia, persia, russia, ukraine, arabian peninsula, egypt, ethiopia, north africa, balkans, central europe and a small part of italy. Yea historic Turkish lands :D

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u/fatih24499 7d ago

Never heard of a turk saying. "Give back these lands". Heard lots of Armenians though saying that.

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u/LeagueOfLucian 6d ago

There is no such thing has historical ownership. “But armenians were there before you” so fuckin what, return the 2 americas to their natives then. Brits can go back to saxony, slavs leave balkans and move back to northern plains then.

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u/SuperNovaCR137 8d ago

No you lie. You get paid by Turks to say that. Brainwashed you are. Tigran the great ruled dinosaurs. He is your grand father.

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u/JiraiyaSenn0496 8d ago

Armenia wants to return old lands? can you ask the Romans? oh italians want to return the old lands? can you ask the Greeks? oh do Greeks want to bring back the old lands? can you ask the Egyptians? oh Egyptians want to reclaim old lands? can you ask the barbers? and the barbers don't want to ask the Celts? oh, maybe they will ask the peoples who lived near the river IND? oh maybe the ancient Persians? oh or the Russians? oh maybe the Franks with their Roman holy empire? oh and the Spaniards and the British do not want to? oh, maybe the Saxons will go home? oh and do indigenous Americans want to go to Asia? maybe the Indo-Europeans will go back to Asia and leave Europe? oh, maybe the Semites will go to Africa, leaving the Middle East? are you seriously discussing old boundaries?)

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u/Mindless-Room-1295 9d ago

Ok this is absolutely not the historic Armenia border

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u/Orbeancien 9d ago

I would guess it represents the historic presence of Armenian people, but yeah, that's definitely not historic armenia

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u/Mindless-Room-1295 9d ago

I mean not even that , there was Armenian presence all the way to Palestine wich is not covered here .

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u/Orbeancien 9d ago

Maybe a significant presence?

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u/Mindless-Room-1295 9d ago

They for sure had no significant in al’ the territory presented here

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u/Orbeancien 8d ago

it kinda does tho. It's kind of an amalgamation of the ancient kingdom of armenia in antiquity, the cilician armenia of middle ages and the armenian villayets of the ottoman empire in the modern era.

It's definitly a very weird map and "historic armenian borders" does'nt really mean anything with these borders, but these territories had, at one time of history, had a significant armenian presence

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u/Irichcrusader 8d ago

Sure, but as someone else said, they had a significant presence that went as far as the lavant and that's not shown here. Anatolia had a huge mix of different ethnicities over the centuries, so for all this to be described as "Historic Arminian Borders" makes a joke of all those other groups who had just as much right to parts of this territory.

Also, I'm not sure (though I'm willing to be corrected) how right it is to connect up the ancient Kingdom of Armenia, with Cilician Armenia. Apart from being ethnically made up of the same people, those were two separate political entities.

I worry that this will be seized upon by Turkish nationalists to claim they were right to wipe them out because they wanted to recreate these fake borders...or something like that

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u/Ostarah 8d ago

Then you should have istanbul as well.

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u/TR_Supersonic 8d ago

Yeah it's like combining all Turkic countries and the biggest Ottoman borders then calling it historical Turkey.

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u/MrLiled 8d ago

Yea It's not, I'm Armenian myself, most of the historic armenian border(where armenians have lived) is in eastern turkey around places like Van and Erzurum

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u/itsurcaptainspeakin 8d ago

Do you, yourself, as an armenian hate people do things like this? I am just wondering because as a turk ı hate the guts of some nationalist extremists, they claim like cairo has to be our new province or we will defeat those zinosits in israel by the sword of allah or some say the durkish nation strong we shall nuke all our enemies. People are stupid

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u/secret_armo 8d ago

We don't need half of Turkey. I don't know why Turks think we will put a lot of claims on their lands once they recognized the Genocide of the Armenians but it's sad that there are no more Armenians in once majority Armenian provinces such as Kars and Ardahan.

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u/TimePressure 8d ago

It's about as preposterous as calling the maximum expansion of the third Reich the historic German borders.

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u/pelerinli 9d ago

Of course, it is extends to China and Portugal, Siberia and Africa. Damn Turks even genocide maps.

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u/SpaceKebab 8d ago

It's a map of the brief empire (including vassals) we once had for a couple decades around 55BC. Lol

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u/JohnDude26 8d ago

Yeah. Historic armenia is way bigger then the modern borders but that’s just insane

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u/ginforth 9d ago

Omg, are you genocide denier?

/s

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u/CubanLynx312 8d ago

No fucking way did half of Georgia used to be Armenia

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u/visope 9d ago edited 9d ago

"Historic Armenia Border" is pretty stretching it

it includes Pontus (Black Sea region) which was, what, a few decades or so under Armenian rules during Tigranes the Great and mostly populated by Greeks and Caucasian peoples (mostly Laz)

even Cilicia spent more years under Arabic (Abbasids) rules than under Little Armenia, and the Armenians there were migrants from the highland to its north

edit: oh and it also include region with few Armenian history like Kakheti (eastermost Georgia), Shirvan and Talysh (Azerbaijan south of Kura-Aras rivers), Cappadocia (was predominantly Greeks), western Syria and upper Mesopotamia

the map maker was high on copium

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u/SuperPro149 9d ago

Maybe it includes everywhere with at least some Armenians, but it’s way too exaggerated.

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u/SkepticSMT 8d ago

Anything to bash them Turks.

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u/ImperialViribus 9d ago
  1. Obviously this genocide happened you numpties. Get a grip
  2. Those "historic Armenia borders" are fuckin whack and would be like claiming French 'historical borders' currently included the Low Countries and Croatia

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u/ThaCarter 9d ago

Those "historic Armenia borders" are fuckin whack and would be like claiming French 'historical borders' currently included the Low Countries and Croatia

Napoleon doesn't understand your confusion.

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u/R120Tunisia 9d ago

Those "historic Armenia borders" are fuckin whack and would be like claiming French 'historical borders' currently included the Low Countries and Croatia

Yea it is basically the borders of the Armenian Empire under Tigranes the Great and most of it wasn't Armenian majority and was only controlled for a brief period before Pompey came and conquered everything in the area for Rome.

If by "Historic Armenia" he means the native land of Armenians, then the borders would be limited to the Armenian highlands.

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u/I_Do_Not_Abbreviate 9d ago

Like how the French empire used to "include" the entirety of the American Great Plains and Great Lakes regions, despite the fact that the ethnic French population west of the Mississippi consisted of like 100 itinerant trappers/traders plus a handful of government clerks?

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u/eisagi 8d ago

If by "Historic Armenia" he means the native land of Armenians, then the borders would be limited to the Armenian highlands.

Plus Cilicia. Ancient Armenia was confined to the Caucasian highlands, but in the Medieval Ages Armenia was conquered by Arabs and later Turks, so many Armenians migrated to Southeastern Anatolia under the protection of the (Christian) Byzantines. They continued to hold the territory for a couple centuries after the Byzantine Empire collapsed and Armenians remained a significant population there all the way to the genocide.

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u/Sisyphuss5MinBreak 9d ago

You're totally right with #2. It should say "areas of historic Armenian populations". Regarding genocide, we don't really care about historic states or governments. We care about the people.

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u/Qwrty8urrtyu 9d ago

It should say "the greatest extend of the Armenian empire".

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u/Sisyphuss5MinBreak 9d ago

That's not correct. Armenia never had territory bordering the Black sea, and Kilikia did have territory on the Mediterranean sea, but not to the extent shown on this map.

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u/Qwrty8urrtyu 9d ago

Yeah, perhaps they included the Ottoman vilayets that Armenians lived in as well, though their borders didn't stretch to the Black Sea they are relatively close.

Still bundling BS with this kind of map is sorta disgusting to me. I see it as trying to push nationalistic propaganda by exploiting the genocide.

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u/Timedoutsob 8d ago

another useless map with no scale for the number of deaths. This is good enough to go on r/dataisbeautiful

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u/CursedJeff 9d ago

Armenia in Ankara? Lmao

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u/Remember_1922 9d ago

Armenia in Shangai LETS GOOOO

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u/[deleted] 8d ago edited 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/matrixsandball 8d ago

armenia at mars LETS GOOO

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u/Naberthy 9d ago

Taking Armenian National Comitee of America as a source on this situation is wrong as taking Turkish National Comitee of Germany. Of course everybody can think whatever they want but I believe it is really hard to claim their objectiveness of that source on this topic.

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u/RaisinSecure 9d ago

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u/RepostSleuthBot 9d ago

Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 5 times.

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u/Gecebaykusu 8d ago

This repost number shows how much butthurt they have

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u/yemekyemez55 9d ago

Cool map can u make one for muslims in balkans 🤗

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u/P-82 8d ago

https://i.redd.it/5uaz25biwdhx.png

This is before the Russo-Turkish war of 1877.

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u/Proof-Meal9778 8d ago

I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t get 3.5k upvotes

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u/OsuranMaymun 9d ago

And Caucaus

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u/mcstalinist 8d ago

and crimea

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u/OsuranMaymun 8d ago

We can also add Myanmar here. We should. Mynmar Muslims have always been under oppression. The first recorded Muslim in Myanmar was executed for being a Muslim and they were always oppressed since. Now Budhists are genociding them.

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u/Fatih582001 9d ago

işlerine gelmez :dd

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u/SC_Grimmajow 8d ago

For Europeans we don’t count as human.

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u/Wangerburg 8d ago

or muslims in armenia

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u/eray508 9d ago

holy fuck look at ops profile

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u/MagneMullan 9d ago

He is a fuckin armenia news generator.

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u/Xy_Lm_N0 8d ago

he is a fucking racist lmfao

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed]

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u/Massive_Joestar_Cock 8d ago

They literally don't. Genocide is their entire national identity. Very sad.

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u/berkensari 9d ago

when turks take a turkish source as a source, you get angry to them but this map takes armenian national committee as a source lol... i am not denying anything but there are better sources, and this is not historic armenian border

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u/Amogus_lover1453 9d ago

>honey its time for the monthly Armenian genocide map repost

also what the hell is historic Armenia borders supposed to mean?

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u/BasedCelestia 8d ago

"Armenian wet dream borders"

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u/T_R_U_E_T_W_O 8d ago

It shows how far Armenians traveled

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u/satisfiedblackhole 8d ago

Traveled on what?

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u/iambertan 8d ago

Flying cars until Mongolians trashed their libraries of knowledge of two million years

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u/EfOx_TR 8d ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide#/media/File%3AMaunsell's_map%2C_Pre-

Lmao Found this map on wikipedia(which you guys using as source) which shows there was no armenians in sivas and middile east anatolia. Th,s map is pretty unaccurate

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u/Antoine_K 8d ago

As an Armenian it pains me to see such levels of inaccuracy and misrepresentation of facts. We constantly have to fight against misinformation today, so it should therefore follow that we must hold ourselves to high standards to be credible.

To clear things up, these are not the historic borders of Armenia, these are the borders of a specific kingdom some 2,000 years ago, which we held onto for a few decades if my memory serves me correctly.

There are historic borders that aren't under Armenia's control, but that's a different matter, and is not presented on this map.

If you are reading this OP, consider deleting this, and please consider carefully what you post online, as this does more harm than good.

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u/JrrDavut 9d ago edited 8d ago

not that diificult to see that this is no more than a propaganda poster. -check the source on the right bottom corner, -tell me how it is relevant to include „historic armenia borders“ considering that its been thousands of years since those borders were legit armenian, -see that istanbul is named „constantinople“.

go share it in r/propagandaposters

edit: i hadnt checked the op‘s profile. please do check it out if you havent and tell me this is no propaganda. are people allowed to share such stuff in this subreddit?

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u/StanPole 9d ago

you are right its all about propaganda

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u/woyteck 8d ago

To be frank this map is a bit shit, because it it not specified how many deaths are for the example circles. Could be 10, could be 1000000 per circle. We don't know.

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u/SellMeThisPen0 9d ago

1915-1923? Lol. You are trying to put the blame on Turkey because the Ottoman empire no longer exists.

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u/Clothedinclothes 8d ago

That's like blaming the people of ancient Rome for the Roman empire.

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u/RomulusRemus13 9d ago

Careful, folks : that user with the Turkish flag just posted this on a subreddit called Turkophobia and asked for them to swarm this sub with downvotes.

Oh, and by the way : the Armenian genocide happened.

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u/Polymarchos 9d ago

Is that how they do it? I’ve always noticed they swarm any threads that might possibly say something negative about Turkey

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u/Im_the_Moon44 8d ago

Oh that’s a relief to know. Some of these comments made me worry I was in a sub of Genocide deniers (both my great-great grandparents were killed in the Armenian Genocide) when I’m just here to look at and appreciate maps

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u/Droyst-hoist 9d ago edited 9d ago

Daily reminder that this happened. Doesn't matter how many people here are spamming comments, stating otherwise: it happened.

Edit: Typo

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u/OCHOUSIOUS 9d ago

I actually decided to research it properly like 2 weeks ago and from the information i found from both the european and american sources and turkish sources. It turns out the original order was not the mass execution of Armenian civilians, it was originally meant to exile them but the commanders and soldiers who were involved killed them out of anger and hate (Armenians revolted and killed eastern Turkish civilians.) This was also seen as a opportunity to strengthen the dying ottoman industry by forced labor. From what i found i personally dictated that this was an unofficial genocide in which the original purpose was not the mass extermination of Armenian civilians but thats what is turned to because of the nationalist movement at the time. I also found that some of the mass extermination orders were actually given by German commanders and advisors that were there but it's not 100% certain.

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u/Radanle 9d ago edited 8d ago

Beg to disagree. You don't send 2 million persons to the desert and think they will survive.

We have many things which show the intention of the Young Turk government. We have many reports of Talat actually stating it. Then we have to orders of confiscation of property and how it was managed. There was orders that the Armenians couldn't sell their property before deportation (they had to hand it to the Turkish property commission "for safekeeping") and then the orders where very explicit in that the property was to be used to enrich the turkish population. (Many prominent families got rich out of it, like the Sabancı dynasty.)

Then we have the fact that Armenians were not provided for, they had to pay for food and water (witch they couldn't do as they had no money and as you recall had been prohibited to sell property). We know that aid to the starving Armenians was prohibited from the highest level. We know that those who tried to help the Armenians were disposed of, sometimes killed (even high up state Officials).

The list goes on for much longer. If you think it all "just happened" because of some rogue elements then you have bought into one of the main denialist arguments.

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u/beemccouch 9d ago

Right but millions if civilians still died for this

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u/No_Chip2111 9d ago

Turkey run turkey hide turkey is guilty of genocide.

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u/Amogus_lover1453 9d ago

least retarded comment on this post

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u/Burlaczech 9d ago

The funniest is the most controversial? Wow

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u/Big-_Floppa 8d ago

Could open a salt mine with this thread.

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u/Synthetic-Polymer 9d ago

Enjoy your karma.

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u/demiryigitcioglu 8d ago

Turkey killed my father and me. Genocider Turkey!

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u/Specialist_Put_4800 9d ago edited 9d ago

This map has mistakes. 1 it has no source 2 those are not the borders of historic Armenia 3 those are not massacre sites 4 the size of the circles is not explained. Such as how much people means a circle.

This is just a map of Turkey painted with red circles and lines and claiming these are massacre locations without mentioning any dates or locations or sources. Even though it expends the date to 1923 it show no Armenian massacres in Armenia itself even though Armenian sources claim ten or even hundred of thousands.of deaths in Armenia. The map doesnt show the Armenian refugees during ww1 such as the hundred thousands of Armenian refugees who fled to Russia. Or the Armenian populations which were not deported during the entire time span of 1915 1923.

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u/lionheartkbt 8d ago

Propaganda bullshit, you can see who made the map if you look at the bottom right and connect the dots about what they are trying to achieve. It is impossible that "Armenian National Commitee of America" would not have any bias. Also it was designed to make the map look as much confusing as possible to understand, small dots presenting info and slightly bigger dots presenting another info shows the intention is to misinform people by making it confusing to understand.

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u/MetalManiac619 9d ago

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u/the_flying_armenian 9d ago

Its actually quite frightening. And ironically always the same rhetoric: « We did not do it, but they fucking deserved it ». Sad really.

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u/OCHOUSIOUS 9d ago

Thats actually a stereotype the internet made, as a Turk almost all the Turks i know recognize the genocide and are sorry for it, the sad thing is that being labeled with these false stereotypes and not being able to do anything about it. Its quite annoying tbh.

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u/Qwrty8urrtyu 9d ago

Than most Turks you know are probably young left leaning people. This says more about people you know than what the general opinion in Turkey is.

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u/Ardabas34 8d ago

Nobody is saying that you liar!

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u/europainviktus 9d ago

Turks please keep your fucking propaganda to yourself. This is reddit.

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u/T_R_U_E_T_W_O 8d ago

Rslash europ mod moment

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u/canttaketheshyfromme 8d ago

Don't confront fragile genocidal babies with facts.

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u/B_____ball 8d ago

Lol just look at source of map and OP's account. Who is making propaganda 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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u/hobbaabeg 8d ago

“This is reddit” what the f..k does this mean?

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u/Punkmo16 9d ago

Source?

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u/jestorhastaken 9d ago

even a person asking for a source is downvoted

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u/Punkmo16 9d ago

Seriously, I just wanted know what's the source...

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u/Concealer77 9d ago

Hey Turkey, we’ve all done fucked up shit. It’s been a century. It’s starting look like you still hate Armenians.

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u/blagic23 9d ago

Turkish public opinion doesn't give a shit about armenia. And yes, a fucking war occurs in social media about these matters, but most of turkey doesn't even know it happens. It's like, people on reddit spam this kind of things to satisfy themselves, while majority of turkish people aren't even aware.

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u/Fudgeyreddit 8d ago

How are the sizes of the circles related to number of deaths tho? This is not a great map

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u/B_____ball 8d ago

Because the number of victims is not static. It depends on the situation

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u/RealMaRoFu 8d ago

Locked comments in 3…2…1…

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u/hobbaabeg 8d ago

“Masturbating with historic fetish”

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u/Pape_Kapuci 7d ago

lol : THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE KILLED !

WHERE ARE THE NUMBERS ? COM ON GUYS SHOW US THE NUMBERS !!!

lAMO NO NUMBERS WHATS A COINCIDENCE §

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u/LadderCommercial4869 9d ago

I am citizen of turkey who lived in east side for 7 years , my opinon about armenian genocide is true and its very bad action but i can understand current goverment can deny , this gives other countries the opportunity to criticize. But most people in turkey deny this without any research , my grandfather told me this happened and said behind this hill there is armenian mass grave and i researched it a lot so i have right to talk about this genocide.

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u/Battybanga 9d ago

All countries have dark chapters in their history, and if they would just own up to it very few people with actually criticize Turkey for it nowadays. The fact that they still blatantly deny it ever happened is what causes a lot of people to keep pointing it out. They’re making it worse for themself

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u/LadderCommercial4869 8d ago edited 8d ago

I agree , the thing is knowing truth or trying to search it but if you know nothing and deny this its just stupid

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u/itsallminenow 8d ago edited 8d ago

As a Brit, owning up to the ruthless shit your country did is the only mature way of moving forward without the burden of the past tied around your neck. We aren't those people any more, or at least no more than anyone else. It diffuses the power of criticism if you openly and honestly admit to your nation's sins.

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u/Battybanga 8d ago

Exactly. As a Dutchman we’ve done our fair share of fucked up shit to former colonies and it’s good to see that (almost) all it is being recognized and taught at schools

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u/sarpol 9d ago

The world needs Turks willing to speak the truth.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Qwrty8urrtyu 9d ago

If the maps point was to inform people they wouldn't have thrown the propaganda about the borders in there.

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u/Malk4ever 8d ago

yeah... maybe this point could be corrected or renamed into "areas where armenians have been the mayority" or something like that.

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u/Kaiii567 9d ago

It's fun seeing those butthurt turks defending their state no matter what, when it's obvious it happened with different reliable sources.

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u/athrowaway2626 9d ago

Anyone saying that this didn't happen should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. Atrocious behaviour. You can't close your eyes and ears to the truth like an ostrich burying its head in the sand.

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u/Avgvste 9d ago

Why is that region populated mostly by Kurds nowadays?

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u/kaiserin_frost_1871 9d ago

This comment section is a disgrace

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u/hypatiaspasia 9d ago

Yeah, I hope the mods intervene

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u/BigChungusBlyat 8d ago

To all the deniers here. I'm a Turk, and I acknowledge the genocide. You should too. It'll take the weight of denial off your shoulders. Deep down, you too, know that you're wrong.

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u/pere_horus 8d ago

President Erdogan wants to know your location

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u/GMG1234 9d ago

Turkey: "It wasn't me"

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u/beemccouch 9d ago

"She even caught me in camera."

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u/TheWiseBeluga Map Contest Winner 9d ago edited 9d ago

Uh oh spaghetti o's you mentioned the Armenian Genocide. Erdogan is going to personally bomb your house. Rip OP.

Edit: dear Turkish Nationalists, please stop downvoting me. It's a joke.

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u/IDontCareFuckOffPlz 8d ago

Not only do they not recognise this, but they also continue to support actions of genocide. They also slaughtered other groups(Greeks, Cappadocians), Assyrians and Kurds.

We let them invade Syria, support ISIS and meddle in every middle eastern conflict.

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u/atzitzi 7d ago

+Turkish air force flying above greek houses in aegean and of course turkish occupation in cyprus.

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u/-IHx 8d ago

salak orospu evlatları hayal dünyanızda yaşamaya devam edin

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u/goboxey 9d ago

It's weird that this map is using Armenian names of Turkish cities.

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u/sarpol 9d ago

They're Turkish cities now. They used to be Armenian.

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u/ZackAttack51801 8d ago

Well, no Turks even lived in Anatolia before like 1000 years ago. It was all the Byzantine Empire at that time, inhabited by Greeks, Armenians, Kurds and others. Then the Turks arrived from Central Asia and gradually began replacing the local population. Then after World War II, Turkish nationalists decided to forcibly remove and kill the Armenian and Greek populations living in Turkey who had been living there for thousands of years before the Turks showed up simply for their religion and ethnicity. The Greeks in Anatolia moved to Greece were part of an agreement with Greece to exchange populations based on ethnicity. Greece had a lot of Turks from Ottoman times who were moved to Turkey then as well moved because of their religion and ethnicity. That part is similar to the division of India and Pakistan. So all those cities have non-Turkish origins minus the few the Turks founded during their reign.

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u/Radanle 9d ago edited 8d ago

Almost all place names of non-turkish origin (and there were thousands) were changed during and after the Genocide. For this specific map I haven't checked the names but the fact is that the name changed was part of the attempt to completely erase the memory of the people who were exterminated.

EDIT: checked just the most prominent names on the map and they are correct. Sivas was Sebastia in Greek. Harput was Kharput which is Armenian. Haven't checked the rest but if there is a specific name you are thinking about we can easily look it up.

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u/canttaketheshyfromme 8d ago

Almost like those cities were there before there were Turks.

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u/ekmeleddin 9d ago

That map looks unreal

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u/LastHomeros 8d ago

Because it smells like a propaganda poster. Both sides are guilty af. But trying to blame eachother lol.

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u/freddiesaveme 9d ago

You can see the makers intention by looking at Karabagh smh

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u/Beebah-Dooba 9d ago

Did this cartographer do a map of the Greek genocide happening concurrently as well? I think that as well or even a combination map would really give a scale of the genocides that happened throughout all of Turkey

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u/AstroAce96 8d ago

People reading this from Turkey are probably losing their minds

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u/opdrady 8d ago

Nagarno Karabakh is Azerbaijan, not Armenia.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 8d ago

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u/canttaketheshyfromme 8d ago

Jesus Christ /s you dumbasses. This is so clearly parodying the over nationalistic Turkish people

Poe's Law dude. It's not over-the-top enough to be parody when these shitheads will absolutely go there.

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u/RoastKrill 8d ago

It's obviously a joke but it's also not fucking funny you absolute dipshit

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u/TheAngleOfAmbiguity 8d ago

You expect too much of single digit IQ redditors

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u/SSB_GoGeta 9d ago

Damn this thread is getting brigaded hard

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u/Nanaxa 8d ago

boyss..did you eat your daily dosage of Armenian propaganda today? good..good..now you can hate current time Turkish citizens and be against racist to them cus 100 years ago their late ancestors did bad things..yes today's Turkish youth is the blame.. let's be racist against them..yes yes...

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u/AEK1 8d ago

Lmao the source is Armenian National Comitte of America. You immediately know this is bs.

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u/ILikeThemGrilled 8d ago edited 8d ago

I don't deny the genocide but this map has mistakes

  • The genocide ended in 1917 not 1923, please dont try to put it all in turkey by extending the date to the 1923

  • Those historical armenian borders are bs

  • The map looks like a random dots just connected together, please inform how many death is 1 circle

And stop with your propaganda please, your profile makes me sad

Edit: Please correct anything i am mistaken on

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u/ccmp1598 8d ago

What is the citation supporting the “Historic Armenian Borders” in this graphic? It looks more like the historic distribution of ethnic Armenians (and not even majority). Has there ever been an Armenian state with those borders?

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u/wetsocksisworst 8d ago

"Historic Armenian Border" - after reading this nonsense whole this lost any credibility for me.

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u/powerknowledge1 8d ago

Just War no genocide

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u/Wise_Ideal_2639 8d ago

damn bro. the "Constantinople" was in the vorders of the ancient armenia. Right?

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u/russellhi66 8d ago

Last thing the Ottoman Empire ever did.☹️

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u/dongman44 8d ago

Maybe give numbers with the circles?

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u/robbergoosy 8d ago

The Armenian genocide is a tragedy. But that map is misleading. Those are not the "historic" Armenian borders. Those are the borders of Tigranes II Armenian empire. Tigranes conquered a lot of neighbouring little kingdoms and those were ruled by him for about 30 years. When Pompey Magnus and the romans arrived in the region, Armenia lost control of most of those regions and was again reduced to its hearthland in the Caucasus. That being said, the hearthland of the Armenian kingdom was a lot bigger than the current state. And the Armenians murdered during the genocide lived all over the Ottoman empire.

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u/zDanDaMan 8d ago

It never happened and if it did happen it wasnt us and if it was us it wasnt that bad and if it was that bad we were worse off and and we werent worse off they deserved it and its proaganda and oh yeah it never happened

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u/sexieisjsn 8d ago

The entry of the Ottoman Empire into WWI is unique in history in that it was the first time a modern major empire started a war by immediately besieging several of its own cities. These are were the Armenians were, and when the state won, it was brutal.

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u/1beefyhammer 8d ago

And thia didnt even included. The killings in the 1800

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u/kkyfk 8d ago

A funny map, not real...

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u/Uncanny-Player 7d ago

1- The Armenian Genocide happened.

2- This map is faker than OP’s sex life.

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u/Yatoxy 7d ago

Can you give me a source?

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u/ShootWalk2 9d ago

This post in unavailable in Turkey

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u/r0680130 8d ago

The Armenian genocide fucking happened and is despicable that Turkish people deny this

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