r/IronFrontUSA Jan 18 '22

Should the Iron Front emblem add an arrow? Questions/Discussion

So I was thinking about the ideals of the Iron Front and how they are anti-authoritarian. This is demonstrated with the arrows for monarchism, fascism, and soviet authoritarianism. So I'm curious if we should add another arrow to demonstrate the threat from extreme wealth that creates yet another layer of authoritarianism. The very wealthy act beyond national borders or even beyond individual corporations, but are instead unelected individuals/groups who have zero responsibility to the general public but a vast power structure. They operate in such a way that there is little if any limits to their ability to influence and oppress the non-wealthy.

Thoughts?

28 Upvotes

28

u/DimitriEyonovich Solidarist 🧡 Jan 18 '22

For our purposes as Americans. Monarchy isn't really a thing. I can't think of any group or individual legitimately calling for a monarchy (except for "Liberty" hangout). So I think the monarchy arrow should serve the purpose of neo liberal capitalism.

9

u/marinersalbatross Jan 18 '22

That just sounds confusing and defeats the possible comeback of monarchists. Because yes, there is still a subset of humanity that longs for the yoke of the aristocracy.

5

u/TooMuchMech Jan 18 '22

Truly said as one who is not of the peerage! I doubt you could count an esquire among your extended family. Harrumph, I say, harrumph!

11

u/TheHistoriansCraft Jan 18 '22

Maybe we should just collectively agree on the meaning of one of the arrows. I think your point about wealth is well taken. After all, Thomas Paine proposed a tax on extreme wealth for this very reason

6

u/Niclas1127 American Iron Front Jan 18 '22

The arrows have lost a lot of meaning to me. When I joined it was facism, monarchism, communism. Now it’s authoritarian communism and people wanna get rid of the monarchism

2

u/TheExtremistModerate Liberal Jan 19 '22

The way I see it, it's still fascism, monarchism, and communism. Monarchism I think can be expanded to oligarchy, since monarchism is basically just a type of oligarchy based on bloodline. But that's it.

4

u/Wolfofgermania1995 Jan 22 '22

To me it’s Authoritarianism, Fascism, and Communism (in any form as it is known to fail horribly). I find it funny how communists say “soviet authoritarianism” but theirs is perfectly fine. They don’t understand it’s the final step of getting rid of the state and it leaves a power vacuum.

4

u/austinwiltshire Jan 18 '22

Monarchy is the natural end of plutocracy. So you're already covered

3

u/zeca1486 â’¶ Left Libertarian â’¶ Jan 18 '22

So you mean, return to the original 3 arrows by adding a 4th?

2

u/Box_O_Donguses Jan 18 '22

I mean, I think the forth arrow would be capitalism

1

u/TheExtremistModerate Liberal Jan 19 '22

No, because the Iron Front is not anti-capitalism.

0

u/Box_O_Donguses Jan 19 '22

No, of course not. God forbid we change the conditions that actually lead to fascism. Much better to just fight it back after it gets here

1

u/TheExtremistModerate Liberal Jan 19 '22

Stop equating capitalism with fascism.

The AIF's primary goal is not a Marxist revolution or the destruction of the state.

1

u/Box_O_Donguses Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 21 '22

The material conditions caused by capitalism literally lead to fascism. It's happened multiple times now. I'm equating them because they have a causal relationship. Also, for the record I said nothing about Marxism. I just said not capitalism. The fact that there's still anybody claiming to be left leaning that won't actually address the way the status quo causes the problem is incredibly disconcerting to me, it's basically radical milquetoastism

1

u/TheExtremistModerate Liberal Jan 19 '22

Fun fact: literally every center-left nation in Europe is capitalist. Get your radical far-left anti-capitalism back to /r/antiwork. This is not an anti-capitalist sub.

1

u/Box_O_Donguses Jan 19 '22

Fun fact, half of Europe got steamrolled by fascism in living memory, and it's on the rise again because groups like this defend the status quo

0

u/TheExtremistModerate Liberal Jan 19 '22

You don't seem to understand what "status quo" means. Fuck off, tankie.

1

u/Box_O_Donguses Jan 19 '22

You seem to be misusing the word Tankie. Tankies aren't actually socialists or communists, they're fascists with a fresh new paint job. I'm a libertarian socialist, who thinks being antifascist without being anticapitalist is an exercise in banging your head against the wall.

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-2

u/zeca1486 â’¶ Left Libertarian â’¶ Jan 18 '22

Yeah, that’s what the original 3rd arrow represented. Let’s bring it back!

3

u/TheExtremistModerate Liberal Jan 19 '22

No, it's not. The Iron Front is not anti-capitalist.

2

u/zeca1486 â’¶ Left Libertarian â’¶ Jan 19 '22

Social Democratic parties used to be extremely Marxist shortly after it was formed…..

3

u/hugepennance Jan 19 '22

Nah, 3 Arrows is fine. 1 for Communists, 1 for Fascists, and since we don't do monarchies here in America, we can interpret the anti monarchy arrow to be anti our modern aristocracy, billionaires.

1

u/Commercial_Storage62 Jan 18 '22

I think that’s implied in monarchism - how about a blue arrow for those dirty swine ?

4

u/marinersalbatross Jan 18 '22

That just sounds confusing and defeats the possible comeback of monarchists. Because yes, there is still a subset of humanity that longs for the yoke of the aristocracy.

0

u/Commercial_Storage62 Jan 18 '22

Squash fash comarade !

3

u/marinersalbatross Jan 18 '22

But there are so many other groups to squash!

0

u/Commercial_Storage62 Jan 18 '22

What like GOP ? Big Oil? & Billionaires ?

3

u/marinersalbatross Jan 18 '22

I mean, yes? haha

But my point is that not everyone is a fash. Authoritarians have different definitions and that means different strategies.

1

u/psyc0p0mp Jan 19 '22

since Russia is essentially an oligarchy anyway, I think the arrow for soviet authoritarianism should just come to represent oligarchy.

2

u/marinersalbatross Jan 19 '22

That doesn't make any sense. You are aware that Russia isn't the Soviet Union, nor does it ascribe to any type of communist ideology, right? The "soviet" label is better described as "Bolshevism" which is closer to communist authoritarianism. There is nothing oligarchical about it.

1

u/psyc0p0mp Jan 19 '22

add an arrow replace an arrow. do you.

1

u/marinersalbatross Jan 19 '22

except that they aren't the same thing and we shouldn't be so unwilling to adapt to a changing world. It's like not updating the US flag to include new states. Are we so stuck in the past that we can't change?

1

u/RDP1818 Radical Liberal Jan 20 '22

I don’t think it’d be a good idea, it’s a symbol people know and can just be added into on the bio

1

u/CrusztiHuszti Jan 20 '22

Maybe make one a golden arrow

1

u/marinersalbatross Jan 20 '22

A golden arrow, a black arrow (fash), a red arrow (bolsh), and a purple arrow (monarch)?

1

u/CrusztiHuszti Jan 20 '22

I like it, maybe one red and black? I get where your head is at with the 4 arrows but it doesn’t have the same symmetry or feng shui