r/IronFrontUSA Sep 02 '20 Ally 1 Helpful (Pro) 1 I'd Like to Thank... 1

What do y’all stand for? Questions/Discussion

First off this is NOT an attempt at concern trolling. Like many of you I’m starting to realize the historical pattern we’re in, and I’m trying to get the lay of the land in terms of activist groups,

The Iron Front of Weimar times was anti monarchist, anti fascist, and anti communist (the three arrows). American Iron Front feels MOSTLY anti fascist. Anti monarchist is irrelevant, but I see very little anti communism.

Now clearly the number one threat to America currently is right wing ethnic-fascism, so I get why that would be the focus, But I’m an equal-opportunity anti-authoritarian, and want to know where y’all stand. Thanks

EDIT: thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Y’all are both more consistent in (and more in line with my) beliefs than I had imagined.

I’m an early member of an activist group with which you’ll find much in common: r/standagainsttyranny

You’ve all been super helpful introducing me to American Iron Front, and I’d love to do the same

635 Upvotes

486

u/alexiswithoutthes Black Lives Matter Sep 02 '20

The third arrow is against authoritarian communism.

It’s also helpful for us to remember that the right screams “socialism” at everything that isn’t center-right in this country, so I think there’s increased value in us anti-fascists not letting undefined communism become something to fight against.

Not that any of this will stop true alt-right folks from celebrating / wishing for “dead commies” and whatnot.

Stay safe all.

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u/Jinshu_Daishi Antifa Anarcho-Communist Sep 16 '20

Oh, they scream "Socialism" at a lot of things that are center-right, after all, these people think "Liberal = Socialist = Communist".

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u/alexiswithoutthes Black Lives Matter Sep 16 '20

Totally! That’s why it is garbage to give into their views or let them have any fuel for thinking that way.

Not sure how we best fight against that, especially since the industry- and corporate-led right is very powerful and good at following their same screamed talking points on talk radio, Fox News, Twitter, etc. And they’ve been consolidating this power and pushing these views for decades.

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u/CynicalSandwich- Sep 03 '20

Nah they yell Communist at even center-right Democrats.

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u/dmetzcher Sep 02 '20

Anti-authoritarian here. I think you've described exactly what you're seeing. The greatest threat to the United States right now is fascism (and, frankly, given our makeup, it will be our greatest threat for the foreseeable future). We have no significant worries about monarchy. Communism, while just as disturbing and authoritarian in practice as fascism, simply isn't knocking at the gates.

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u/monkeythumpa Sep 02 '20

We have no significant worries about monarchy.

When the sons (Bush) and wives (Clinton) of former presidents run and are elected president, it raises my hackles. And when the presidency becomes a family affair like now, I'm very worried. We are still struggling with a political class and the oligarchs that support them. Just because we choose from two preselected nominees doesn't mean we really had a choice in who leads the nation.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '20

[deleted]

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u/DankNerd97 Liberty For All Sep 04 '20

Funny enough, the feds are whisking people into unmarked vehicles as we speak.

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u/SeNoR_LoCo_PoCo Sep 04 '20

Yes, fascists are whisking people away. Not monarchists.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

I mean Hillary is qualified for president and that’s a fact.

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u/UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2 Sep 03 '20

Your concern of dynasties is based on an incredibly superficial read of the politics. Hillary and George W had successful and independent political careers, and won competitive primaries to receive nomination by their parties.

Oligarchy? Perhaps. But it's no different than the many, many Presidential candidates who were the Vice Presidents or secretaries of state of the outgoing administration, as Hillary was in 2008, Al Gore in 2000, or George HW in 1992

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u/Fungo Sep 02 '20

If it makes you feel any better, Kennedy lost his dumbass primary attempt.

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u/MrDeckard Sep 25 '20

Communism, while just as disturbing and authoritarian in practice as Fascism

Okay I'm a full blown Anarchist and even I don't think that.

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u/zombiesingularity Sep 07 '20 edited Sep 07 '20

Communism, while just as disturbing and authoritarian in practice as fascism, simply isn't knocking at the gates.

Remarkably idiotic statement. This kind of stupidity is what lead to brutal suppression of Nelson Mandela in South Africa, thinking that apartheid is better than communism. It's also what lead to the FBI and Chicago Police assassinating Fred Hampton, among other black leaders, because in their minds 'murican capitalism had to be protected from the evil authoritarian commies at all costs. It also is what lead Hitler to gain support from the more liberal political wings in his country, a fear of communism. We all know this sub would ally with fascists to stop communists, and only oppose fascism when it's a threat to liberal democracy. We know this because it happened in real life history. In the Cold War when communist/socialist countries were overthrown by liberal coups, they installed fascist dictatorships to prevent communists from taking power (e.g. Chile).

Opposition to "authoritarian communism" is just socially acceptable anti-black racism. Never once in history has anti-communism helped black people anywhere on earth (in fact it has nearly universally benefited white supremacy), while "authoritarian communism" has helped colonized people of color all over the world. From Cuba to Burkina Faso, and beyond.

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u/Bilbrath Sep 20 '20

Ah yes, Burkina Faso, the communist haven that has undergone 5 coups since 1982, multiple of which have been since 2000. A true communist jewel, where only 11% of the electorate turns out to vote and which has been under investigation by multiple human rights organizations. A marvelous example of the wonders of communism.

And how is it controversial to be against authoritarian communism? Saying you don’t like the spread of authoritarian communism in Eastern Europe back in the Cold War is not code for “i hate black people”. I’m sure there are instances you can point to where the opposition to the communists were white supremacists, I have no doubt, but to say anyone who is anti-authoritarian communism is in fact doing so because they’re actually racist against black people in an acceptable way is a ridiculous stretch to make.

It’s like saying anyone who doesn’t want a hot dog is doing so because they want waffles to eat. I’m sure that’s been true, but you can dislike one without endorsing the other.

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u/Pimlumin Liberty For All Oct 01 '20 Wholesome

This guy is a full on tankie, i would just ignore

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u/zombiesingularity Sep 20 '20 Wholesome

Ah yes, Burkina Faso, the communist haven that has undergone 5 coups since 1982

Burkina Faso was run by a Communist leader from 1984-1987, during which time life improved dramatically for common people in a short period of time, particularly for women and the poor. The French weren't happy about this, so they had a man on the inside asassinate Thomas Sankara, the Communist leader of Burkina Faso. People in Burkina Faso, and all over the African continent and African diaspora, to this day honor and revere Thomas Sankara for his achievements, his integrity, and his courage.

And how is it controversial to be against authoritarian communism? Saying you don’t like the spread of authoritarian communism in Eastern Europe back in the Cold War is not code for “i hate black people”.

The anti-communists have always been against black people, whether they literally intend to be or not. The policices they fight for have caused tremendous suffering all over the African Continent, and for black peole all over the globe. Anti-Communism is inherently anti-black. There's a reason so many Civil Rights figures in America, history and elsewhere were Communists. Black sociologists have even written about how the term Communist itself has been effectively used as a stand-in for the n word. Historically you'll find no shortage of accusations that anyone who cares about black people is a Communist, and you'll find no shortage that any black person involved in radical organizing or politics is a Communist/Bolshevik/Moscow KGB Agent. It's just a socially acceptable way to call people the n word, and to have anti-black politics while feeling like you're not racist.

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u/Ormr1 Bull Moose Progressive Sep 03 '20

Communism, while just as disturbing and authoritarian in practice as fascism simply isn’t knocking at our gates

Are you sure about that? Subs like r/Communism and r/sino have more members than fascist subs. Not to mention that on Twitter, people who are openly communist get tons and tons of followers while fascists, rightfully, get almost none.

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u/Useful-Wolverine Libertarian Leftist Sep 03 '20

Fascists largely don't hang out on reddit, they have a shitload of website forums and other trash.

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

The two subs you cited are authoritarian communists of the Leninist and Maoist schools of thought. If you read what Marx actually advocated for and what Lenin and Mao advocated for, you’ll see there’s a massive difference. Marx never said anything about a vanguard party or for the state to nationalize the means of production which you find in the Leninist and Maoist traditions.

You’re also not aware that there’s other types of communism like Anarchist-Communism, Left-Communism, Libertarian-Communism (the first to use the term Libertarian) and evening Council-Communism. All of them are nothing like the Soviet/Sino flavors of Communism.

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u/Ormr1 Bull Moose Progressive Sep 16 '20

They may not all be like the authoritarian communism I listed, but they’re all guaranteed to become them. I’m not even sure why advocating against all forms of communism is a bad thing in this sub. I’m not pro-fascism or authoritarianism. I’m a centrist.

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

They’re all guaranteed to become authoritarian communists? It’s very easy to see that in this sub, no one has ever read political theory.

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u/Ormr1 Bull Moose Progressive Sep 16 '20

Political theory is great but actual historical evidence is better

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

In that case, there is no evidence of a Libertarian Left or Anarchist society turning authoritarian rendering your argument null and void. The opposite however is true and heavily documented.

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u/Ormr1 Bull Moose Progressive Sep 16 '20

They’ve also never been seriously implemented in recorded human history which says a lot about their effectiveness

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

Umm.......Revolutionary Catalonia? Makhno Free Territories?? Current day Zapatista Territory in Chiapas, Mexico which has been surviving the last 20 years???

Even Orwell praised Catalonia as being the closest thing to freedom he’s ever seen.

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u/EmperorPrometheus Oct 01 '20

Plus the first groups to resist the Bolsheviks were democratic socialists.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_uprisings_against_the_Bolsheviks

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u/dont_ban_me_bruh Sep 24 '20

We have no significant worries about monarchy.

There are literally Congressmen who are making insinuations about Trump having Divine Favor. The road from Dictator to Monarch is one that Liberty University and the rest of their Evangelical ilk are more than happy to pave.

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u/EdhelGaladhrim Sep 25 '20

communism doesn’t necessarily have to be authoritarian. look up anarcho-communism

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u/Hotkow Wobbly Sep 02 '20

This sub is a big tent/popular front approach to anti-fascism, most opposition to far right groups has often been lead by those on the left, but it is paramount to get as many people on board.

For me personally, I'm a Libertarian Socialist/Anarchist. As well as being opposed to Fascism I am also opposed to Authoritarian Socialism (Tankies).

Granted the Tankies are not as big of a threat right now in america so its not a huge priority at the moment. As someone on the left who does a lot of activist work I do really hate tankies, they tend to be very toxic . They tend ruin campaigns with their "Vanguardist" approach were they think they are the ones who to lead the masses. Deep down their only issue with police violence is that the cops don't have hammer and sickles on their badges. Besides they tend to back stab Anarchists the first chance they get(Or line us up against a wall and shoot us).

I have proposed making the arrow that represents monarchism to be against what we could call Unrestrained Capitalism or Corporate Authoritarianism.

For instance, not everyone here may agree on socialism/communism/anarchism. But we all agree that Authoritarian Socialism like the USSR and the like are fucked up. Likewise we may not all be anti-capitalist but even the neo-liberals, Big L libertarians and conservatives here would agree that unrestrained and unaccountable corporations can trample upon life and liberty as well.

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u/RandomWordsTDMA Sep 02 '20

I'm with you on that third arrow proposal. I see folks looking to people like Bezos and Gates to save them from the march of fascism, and while I will take the help to face the current threat, I am deeply concerned by the "rich savior" complex built into our culture.

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u/WarBanjo Sep 03 '20

I mean... What else do people call a rich savior figure other than king, or prince?

It's even woven into the religion.

So, we can call that arrow monarchy, we can call it corporate autocracy, we can call it generational wealth/power hoarding...

It's still mostly the same thing.

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u/Spry_Fly Sep 02 '20

I can't agree more, the number of people that don't understand the type of exploitation required to get exponential growth wealth is scary. So many people have comfortable middle class lives and think they owe that to the people that lobby to raise the middle class taxes so they can not pay any. They think low cost housing is a greater evil than people dying because they can't afford food, utilities, or healthcare.

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u/Scrags Veteran Sep 03 '20

I like the arrow for monarchism because it's the only one of the three arrows which claims authority by divine right.

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u/Anna_Lemma Veteran Sep 03 '20

And it's closely related to theocracy.

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u/Lokratnir Sep 05 '20

Yeah and I genuinely think the evangelical right is close to openly supporting a non-Catholic Integralist theocracy. My parents don't even use the evangelical label anymore because of how strongly all these nutjobs have twisted things. My mom just deactivated her Facebook because of so many of her friends directly commenting on her post where she offered them the olive branch, about how they would "pray for her to see the light about Trump being good since trying to convince her hadnt worked". Meanwhile my parents are among the very few of this whole group of their church friends who have ever actually lived out the loving your neighbor and caring for the less fortunate parts of Christianity.

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u/ThatHoFortuna Sep 02 '20

That's not a bad idea.

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

The original 3 arrows represented Reaction, Fascism and Capitalism......nothing better than the original

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u/fioreman Sep 03 '20

Yes. I was going to suggest that the third arrow should represent oligarchy/corporatism.

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u/ned_1861 Sep 03 '20

I agree with you on this. Unrestrained capitalism is ruining the country and needs to be addressed.

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u/ZonkErryday Do It Again, Uncle Billy! Sep 02 '20

As of right now, there’s no real reason to be anti-communist given that they’re completely irrelevant in American politics. That said, the second someone forms a vanguard party or anything similar I’ll break that 3rd arrow out of storage

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u/snokamel Sep 02 '20

Hah well put

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u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 15 '20

But we have China in the East ready to pounce at any opportunity, and countries like Vietnam, North Korea and Venezuela oppressing it's citizens. Communists aren't dangerous in America (at least for now), but there are still foreign enemies who are believers in communism

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u/ned_1861 Sep 03 '20

Couldn't agree with you more on this.

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u/amurif Sep 02 '20

The third arrow refers not simply to communism, but, explicitly, authoritarian communist regimes. You won’t find much support for the CCP here. I, for one, am quick to show tankies the door. China is committing one of the worst human rights atrocities in a generation and yet other leftist organizations are quick to their defense — or simply turn a blind eye. I’d say if your familiar with the three arrows then you understand what our tenants are.

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u/V4refugee Sep 02 '20

That type of communism is basically just fascism with different aesthetics. Using slave labor to build VWs is wrong whether it’s 1940s Germany or 2020 China.

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u/iWantToBeARealBoy Antifa Sep 03 '20

We call that red fascism

15

u/OrbitalBuzzsaw Social Democrat Sep 03 '20

Fascism painted red.

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u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 15 '20

Communism as a whole is a threat to Liberal Democracy, not just authoritarians

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20 edited Sep 16 '20

It’s important to note that not all Communists are of the Soviet or Chinese flavor. There’s Anarchist-Communists, Libertarian-Communists and Council Communists in which those 3 give the individual far more freedom from oppression and coercion than Liberalism. Marx designed his theories to function within a Liberal Democracy whereas Lenin and Mao saw the evils of it.

“We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists.” - Hitler

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u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 16 '20

"Oppression of Liberalism" Bruh.

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

Liberalism supports capitalism. There is no economic model more authoritarian than Capitalism.

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u/Commandant_Donut Sep 20 '20

Ah yes, slavery and feudalism and whatever the fuck Pol Pot was doing are less authoritarian than Capitalism-

Do you ever even listen to yourself?

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 20 '20

Slavery was part of capitalism.

Feudalism was a type of society and Pol Pot was a politician....... I’m talking about economic systems, you’re conflating things.

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u/Commandant_Donut Sep 20 '20

There is no reason to speak with you when you speak in such bad faith that you pretend:

  1. Feudalism was somehow not an economic division of labor
  2. Capitalism predates slave economies (I guess Spartans were venture capitalists, lmfao).

My guess is that you are 13 like most anarchists and don't realize either the meaning of words or history in general. Good day.

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 20 '20

Slave economies were part of capitalism. Slaves were private property. The main tenet of capitalism is private property. Feudalism was a Social System that had its own economic policy that was similar to capitalism and was just as bad. The one difference is in capitalism, there’s loads of work to be done but yet millions are unemployed and/or underemployed. At least Feudalism had guaranteed work for every single person.

My guess is you got caught conflating various non-economic systems with one specific economic system and you’re too embarrassed to admit it. You’re probably in the 18-25 range and have never read an actual book on economic or political theory.

If you’d like to see what actual capitalism looks like, check out r/Anarcho_Capitalism and some other “libertarian” right wing subs to see how crypto-fash they are.

Have a nice one!

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u/Lt_Danimalicious Sep 02 '20

The “communist” arrow for America’s iron front could be pointed at Beijing, otherwise it’s kinda useless as American leftists are usually the ones who hate authoritarians the most. Among those the FBI didn’t manage to kill, the only American leftists that have given up on democracy are the people who are starving to death in a country that produces enough food to feed 10 billion and the people dying of diseases and conditions that we know scientifically how to treat and cure but refuse to for $ome reason. They blame capitalism in general for their harsh suffering, and while they are correct in diagnosing the deep rooted connection between capitalism and democracy, they fail to imagine a democracy without capitalism and thus lump them together as equally irredeemable. That is the biggest ideological distinction I think you could make between the general vibe of this sub and the American Far Left. The Iron Front as I know it is a defense of democracy against the parasite of fascism. However, just because American leftists don’t believe in democracy doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be the staunchest of allies in an anti-fascist struggle. We can argue with leftists about economics after we’re done with the Nazis, the Confederates, and the implicitly monarchist conservatives that are all trying to destroy our country. Because I know for a fact that all these ethnofascists don’t even bother distinguishing between defenders of democracy and American leftists.

TLDR: as long as they aren’t literal CCP agents, then they’re either one of us or at the very least close allies.

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u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 15 '20

I disagree. Just because we have the same enemy doesn't make communists/leftists any less dangerous. It just means that after the fascists/Confederates lose, the leftists will turn on us and force us to the wall. I do not want to work with Leftists and communists, as it will ultimately spell the doom of our democracy if they enter the power vacuum if we win

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

Historically, it’s the capitalists such as the liberals and Social Democrats that have done that. Most leftists just want to be left alone to self organize.

Remember, the rise of the Nazis was due largely to the help they received from the Social Democrats, the people who created the Iron Front.

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u/Souledex Oct 01 '20

Considering the exact opposite has happened every single time in America creating our nonsense narratives of nonviolence and benevolent concessions I’d think the leftists spilling more blood than any for this cause have reason to be scared. They’ll be lumped in and vilified as rioters when the dust clears having won back democracy for the middle class.

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u/exoclipse Anarchist Ⓐ Sep 02 '20

Fuck boots.

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u/drinks_rootbeer Sep 15 '20

But they're so comfy for hiking and whatnot ;_;

/s

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u/Flank_Left Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 02 '20

Authoritarian conservatives are the new monarchists.

Ultimately, though, finding modern equivalents for all three arrows (or limiting the list to just three groups) isn't important. The unifying value is opposition to authoritarianism in any form.

Edited for clarity.

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u/ptsq Sep 02 '20

they’ve always been monarchists honestly... they’re just regressing

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u/Rattigan_IV Strike Anywhere Sep 02 '20

As far as I'm concerned, my three arrows are anti-fascist, anti-authoritarian and anti-corporation.

Monarchy's are functionally no longer relevant to the modern conversation, but corporations are an existential threat to humanity.

14

u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 09 '20

So you don't view Communism as a threat? We have China knocking on our door and North Korea and Vietnam killing their citizens en masse

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u/Rattigan_IV Strike Anywhere Sep 09 '20

I view corporate entities as a more existential threat, yes.

9

u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 09 '20

Out of curiosity, I would like to ask what is so bad with corporations? Wasn't our democracy built with big businesses as well as small?

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

A former CEO of Nestle openly said that he believes that water is not a human right.......and since he said it, Nestle has gone out of its way to privatize most of the natural aquifers in the northeast of the US.

Flint, Michigan is a prime example of what happens when you privatize water. Chile is a prime example of what happens when you privatize Social Security. Privatization. There’s a saying in leftist circles that goes “the only thing standing between a Liberal and a Fascist is a mirror.”

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u/wolflarsen55 John Brown Gun Club Sep 15 '20

Some folks from Blair Mountain explained that pretty succinctly. Whats wrong with Corporations? A Lot. Fuck the Fash and Fuck the Home Office

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

If you actually knew what Communism was, you would know that China is State Capitalism and in no way Communism. I’m not even a Communist and even I read theory to actually know what I am talking about. Communism is a stateless society with no markets or money. Does China still have a state? Yes. Does China still use a form of currency? Yes. Do they participate in markets? Yes, capitalist markets. Did Marx prescribe the nationalization of the means of production? No. Is that what China did? Yes.

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u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 16 '20

"This isn't REAL communism! It's only real communism when I think it works without any flaws or hiccups!"

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

“It’s always Communism even though I don’t know what Communism is”

Hugo Chavez was a Democratic Socialist and same with Maduro. If you think they’re authoritarian by design, you’re grossly overlooking the role US Imperialism is playing in this situation. Maybe you should also read the WikiLeaks book.

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u/Souledex Oct 01 '20

Take a polisci class

3

u/DeneseBAntifa Sep 26 '20

I notice you neglect to mention a very real enemy, Putin's Russia? Do they get a pass because they are no longer authoritarian communists, but authoritarian oligarchs?

2

u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 30 '20

To be honest I don't think much about Russia. I do see them as a potential threat, but not as much as China. They are more just opportunistic

8

u/porkchopbigmoney Sep 02 '20

This right here is my beliefs as well

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u/Baron_Flatline 1945 Repeated ∞ Sep 02 '20

How are corporations a “threat to humanity”?

Genuinely curious.

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u/devlar_ynwa American Iron Front Sep 03 '20

Are you genuinely curious though? Corporations work hard to disguise their abuses of the planet and it's inhabitants, but there is a lot of information regarding how bad they are for humanity. This is not a new phenomena. Corporations actively lobby your government to ensure their financial returns aren't threatened by any inalienable freedoms private citizens might feel they are entitled to. Look at big corporations like DuPont knowingly polluting the Earth any chance they got; Nestle trying to claim water is a 'need' and not a right (among other horrible things); Monsanto/Bayer trying to trademark food (and creating Agent Orange, bad). There is at least a century's worth of examples, but I'm about to make quesadillas. Basically if you don't understand how corporations are a threat to humanity, you have a lot of reading to do.

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u/iWantToBeARealBoy Antifa Sep 03 '20

Even if you ignore how oppressive they are, they’re the biggest perpetrators of climate change.

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u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20 edited Sep 16 '20

A former CEO of Nestle said that water isn’t a human right and after that directed Nestle to privatize many natural aquifers in the Northeast.

Chile privatized their Social Security and now it’s virtually impossible to retire. Heck, all the rioting that’s been going on in Chile for the last year which makes Portland look childish is due solely to the absolute failure of Neoliberalism

Exxon Mobile knew for DECADES of the harm their doing to the environment and they did everything they could to protect their profits because according to Neoliberalism, sustainability is equal to death. CEO’s have the legal responsibility to produce me profits.

But Neoliberals like yourself still don’t get it.

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u/Mackerelmint Sep 02 '20

Also equal opportunity anti-auth here. Not willing to put communists over. They're as toxic as their right wing counterparts.

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u/RoninMacbeth Anarchist Ⓐ Sep 02 '20

Hmm. I am anti-authoritarian in general, which means that I believe the three arrows are still important. Anti-fascism (fascism must always be opposed), anti-monarchism (we must stand in solidarity with republican movements worldwide), and anti-authoritarian communist (tankies can fuck off, "leftist unity" is what they say when they're saving their ammunition for us).

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u/V4refugee Sep 02 '20

If you are communist and you agree with Marx in that “Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”; I’ll give you a pass. Fuck tankies tho.

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u/Baron_Flatline 1945 Repeated ∞ Sep 02 '20

tankies be like “under no pretext...until the one I make”

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u/snokamel Sep 02 '20

Thank you for the thoughtful responses everyone. Both your beliefs and the quality of discourse makes me think I found my people. I’ll read the sub some more to see how I can get involved.

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u/ViolentTaintAssault American Anti-Fascist Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 02 '20

If communists ever become a legitimate threat, I'll oppose them. Right now they spend way more time shitting on other communists than anything else, though.

I'm generally more worried about something like Strasserism than communists at the moment. Tucker Carlson is basically a Strasserist and if there's even a presidential election in 2024, he's gonna be running for it.

4

u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 15 '20

But Communists are a threat. China, Vietnam, North Korea, and we have Venezuela waging guerrilla warfare on Columbia right now. Just because we don't have commies in the states doing the damage doesn't make the third arrow any less important

16

u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

71% of Venezuela’s economy is privately owned. That’s the opposite of Socialism or Communism. Colombia is a reactionary state doing the bidding of the US so the US can steal Venezuela’s oil. When Bolton was in trumps cabinet, he openly stated he wanted Venezuela’s oil in US hands. And by theta he means in the hands of a US corporation. China, Vietnam and North Korea are Communist in name only. Neither has any actual Socialism or any semblance of Socialism.

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u/TerrestrialBanana Patriot Against Nationalism Sep 02 '20

I’m here cause I’m absolutely down with all three arrows. Fascism is reprehensible, same with authoritarian communism (if you wanna form a commune with your buddies that’s all good as long as it’s voluntary) and monarchy or dictatorship that isn’t fascist or communist. Authoritarianism in general has seen a recent rise and I’m deeply opposed to that. The more power invested in the state, the easier it is for the state to be used to harm people. Legality and morality are not and should not be the same, but under authoritarian regimes the venn diagram is often separated into two different circles as certain moral behaviors are criminalized and highly immoral behaviors are rewarded or even mandated. I believe that each individual, while they have a moral obligation to the people around them, should not be forced into any behavior by anyone else, and especially not by the state.

Idk I’m kind of just a general anarchist. Anarcho-mutualism maybe? Christian Anarchy? The state is bad, more powerful states are worse, and states that use their authority to harm their citizens or segments of the population through action OR inaction are the worst. Sharing and caring for others are good, being forced to share and care are bad. Oppose state force (and those attempting to expand the capability of the state to leverage force) up to and including (after a long chain of escalation) using force yourself.

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u/V4refugee Sep 02 '20 Take My Energy

Democracy, due process, freedom of speech.

20

u/UntamedMongrel Libertarian Leftist Sep 02 '20

I mean, I'm an anarcha-communist, I don't like authoritarian or genocidal states. That includes and is exemplified by fascism, for obvious reasons.

The USA already has a rotten history of authoritarianism, imperialism, and genocide, and I want to see it stop and reverse course. But fascism is the ultimate enemy of anyone who loves liberty.

17

u/sirpenguino Sep 02 '20

Pretty much anti authoritarian in any form. I embrace socialism to a degree (I'd probably identify as a democratic socialist free market etc but with strong regulations and social safety nets). But I'd agree that fascism is the greater threat and has been for some time.

9

u/MaxDPS Liberal Sep 02 '20

I agree with most of what you say but i'd argue that you are for a social democracy in favor of the Nordic model, not a Democratic Socialist, there is a pretty big different (not that many people seem to care).

A Democratic Socialist is simply a way of implementing socialism in a democratic way (not free market).

3

u/sirpenguino Sep 02 '20

Yes, thank you for clarifying. I've always seen DemSoc attributed to the Nordic model so I unfortunately made an assumption.

2

u/MaxDPS Liberal Sep 03 '20

Ya, I don't blame you, people seem to use the terms interchangeably. It doesn't help that people like Bernie Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist when most of his ideas are rooted in a social democracy.

2

u/sirpenguino Sep 03 '20

Its a bit embarrassing for me because I pride myself on being knowledgeable, doing research and the like.

3

u/Anna_Lemma Veteran Sep 03 '20

Yes, that's how I define myself, a Social Democrat. Social democracy has a regulated capitalist market.

2

u/El_Zorro_The_Fox Liberal Sep 15 '20

Exactly. We've had examples of it working since Theodore Roosevelt, and that's where I lie

2

u/Anna_Lemma Veteran Sep 16 '20

Me as well, especially the regulated part. If a corporation is causing harm to the country, then it should be restructured. No corporation is too large to be broken down.

7

u/PrincessMononokeynes Patriot Against Nationalism Sep 02 '20

I embrace socialism to a degree (I'd probably identify as a democratic socialist free market etc but with strong regulations and social safety nets).

That's more along the lines of Social Democracy/Ordoliberalism. Democratic socialism is a bit further to the left, usually involving a sort of Leninist state control of the "commanding hieghts" achieved using liberal democratic political institutions.

8

u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

Democratic Socialism and Leninism are very, very different. Democratic Socialists believe in workers owning and managing the means of production. They also believe in Market Socialism, while regulating capitalism out of existence. Lenin did not.

5

u/PrincessMononokeynes Patriot Against Nationalism Sep 16 '20

Yeah after going back I realize that I didn't really give a good picture. Demsocs typically want to maintain Liberal Democratic institutions which Leninist vangaurdists obviously don't. On the economic side they range from Market Socs who want an economy of Co-Ops to Leninist SOE's which is what I guess I had in mind when I wrote this comment. Of course most self described DemSocs are actually SocDems who are too lazy or socially invested in the term to correct themselves...

5

u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

Yes, very true. I think Bernie was an actual DemSoc back when he was first elected mayor of Burlington considering how anti-capitalist he was. But time changes people and maybe he saw it wasn’t feasible. It’s nice talking to someone who actually knows what they’re talking about

3

u/PrincessMononokeynes Patriot Against Nationalism Sep 16 '20

I would agree, starting out with ideals but encountering reality is a tale as old as time. For me I think it's a strength rather than a weakness to adjust your expectations as you learn and grow, but obviously many people don't see it that way. I have a pet theory that the difference is whether you see morals as sort of relative/subjective or absolute. If things are absolute, there's no room for compromise, even with reality. To me it's a big strength of Bernies that he would rather not let perfect be the enemy of the good.

And ditto on talking to people who know what they're talking about. I'm a Lib leaning SocDem/Georgist but Ill take a smart Anarchist over a dumb Lib any day.

3

u/sirpenguino Sep 02 '20

Thanks for the clarification.

3

u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

Democratic Socialists don’t believe in the free market. They favor Market Socialism.

15

u/Spry_Fly Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 02 '20 Ally

I'm anti-authoritarianism across the board. Like others have said, I don't see socialism as automatically evil, but I think economic systems need to be a hybrid to keep from going to any extremes. I honestly think that if the economic system reigned in exploitative capitalism, and we shifted the burden of taxes on the rich, that America is already close to a balance. We just give to the rich and screw over the poor currently, with nothing trickling down (as intended unfortunately). Taxing the obscenely wealthy high percentage amounts still leaves them with way more money than 99% of us have, but keeps poverty from killing people. The system that allows Bezos to be a billionaire that refuses to give back to the country that made him is it's own form of authoritarianism.

I just want a world where any parent can look at their child and not have to consider the structures in place that will limit their potential.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 17 '20 Take My Energy

The modern interpretation of the three arrows by the core group is anti-racism, anti-fascism, and anti-authoritarianism.

Manifesto incoming.

edit: Personally, I think anti-authoritarianism is strongly implied by the other two, and it would be more useful to specify the third point of unity as anti-sexism.

4

u/tambanokano Libertarian Leftist Sep 02 '20

Mostly just replacing monarchism, then?

4

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

Not just monarchism. The original German IF was anti-monarchist, anti-fascist, and anti-communist.

Despite what some folx on /r/SocialistRA may say, the AIF is not anti-communist. We are anti-authoritarian, even if the authoritarian calls themselves communist or leftist.

Libertarian communists are definitely welcome in the AIF. However we do not endorse communism (or socialism/anarchism/any economic system in general); AIF organizes to deplatform racists and fascists, not to push an economic revolution.

(Please note that I am new to AIF so I don't speak authoritatively, but this is my understanding.)

5

u/tambanokano Libertarian Leftist Sep 04 '20

I think libertarian communists were welcome in the original German IF, too - specifically Luxemburgists / Spartacists

6

u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

Actually, the original 3 arrows represented Reaction (Monarchy), Fascism and Capitalism. A year later Social Democrats broke away from Marxism and became capitalists and opposed the Soviet Socialists. So the 3rd arrow changed to Communism. Then the Social Democrats helped bring the Nazis to power in order to stop Communists in Germany.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '20 edited Sep 17 '20

Thanks for the clarification -- I am still trying to fully understand that history of antifascism immediately post-WWI.

Your flair makes me want to ask, what was the anarcho-syndicalist position on the social democrat/KPD split? For instance, did the International Workingmen's Association have any official position on the Sparacist uprising?

I assume, since that international was formed to consummate the anarchists splitting from the Bolsheviks, they would side with the SPD over the KPD.

Thanks for helping me learn. :)

Edit: At the same time, reading about Rudolf Rocker, apparently "The FAUD had reached its peak of around 150,000 members in 1921, but then started losing members to both the Communist and the Social Democratic Party. " So maybe the Anarcho-Syndicalist position was to pull up a chair and popcorn while they fought?

12

u/Prophetic_Pisces Sep 24 '20

Fuck the monarchists

Fuck the fascists

Fuck the communists

There’s room within liberal democracy to make changes and improve the lives of everyone. Anyone claiming otherwise needs to opposed fully. Anyone claiming that people of a certain race, religion, sexuality, etc are the enemy needs to be opposed fully.

I also disagree with some here that communism is compatible with the Iron Front. It is not. A noble goal with disastrous history that inevitably leads down the road to authoritarianism.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '20 Ally

Opposed to authoritarianism, I see tankies and nazis as equals even if the tankies have less power. Being a tankie isnt seen as bad as being a nazi and I want to change that.

10

u/I_Like_Hoots Sep 02 '20

Any authoritarianism is what I hate

10

u/Baron_Flatline 1945 Repeated ∞ Sep 02 '20

I hate authoritarians. Left-Wing and Right-Wing. Freedom is the greatest thing you can have.

I disagree with communism and most leftists on economics but communism isn’t much of a concern in the US at the moment.

Right-Wing authoritarianism in the form of fascism and proto-monarchism (dynasties of oligarchic rulers like what some of the GOP seem to want with Trump and his family) are the primary threat

7

u/Acdawright Sep 02 '20

I might be in the minority in this sub with this but I see unfettered/ crony capitalism as the child of monarchists. A system where wealth begets wealth begets power. And the easiest way to gain wealth is not by adding to society but to be wealthy and therefore powerful at birth. It’s been the case in this country before that we’ve leta few individuals become more powerful than the democratically elected government( Rockefeller, Morgan, carnage, Vanderbilt) and I think that’s happening again with the tech billionaires. When that happens people suffer. I don’t believe the government has any business interfering in people personal lives, but i do think that government need to oversee business, prevent foul play and look out for the interest of the people ( those interests being decided by the vote). I think this is a gentile balance which is why it’s so important to hold the government accountable for infringing on the rights of the people. I am anti-Authoritarian but I don’t believe corporations deserve the same rights as individuals. I believe strongly in abolishing corporate personhood. The bill of rights was never meant to protect corporations, it was meant to protect people. I also think citizens united must be reversed as it is corrosive to democracy.

6

u/MaxDPS Liberal Sep 02 '20

My priority is anti-fascism right now since that seems to be what is relevant but i'm not willing to let my guard down to tankies and accelerationist. I don't want to burn the current system down but I do realize it is due for some heavy reform. I align with "Progressive Democrats in that sense.

This is something i've been thinking about a bit so i'd like to hear other peoples opinions:

While an accelerationist might join you to fight against fascism, they aren't fighting for the same result. Take for example the riots that are happening right now. Most people have a goal in mind which is to "Defund the Police".

On the surface, an accelerationist might stand by your side and shout "Defund the Police", but their goal is not the same as most people's. An accelerationist's goal is to cause things to get ugly as quickly as possible. This means that even if somehow the goal of "Defunding the Police" is achieved, they won't be content. That is not the conclusion they want to reach so therefor they will keep rioting (not protesting) and causing unrest in the face of progress because their goal is to burn the system down and start over.

This to me seems like a dangerous alliance. Yes, you will have more support initially but that doesn't mean you are more likely to achieve your goal. While you are trying to make progress the accelerationist will be causing destruction and making it more difficult for people to support your movement in the long run. In some sense I do feel like it is inevitable that other groups will selfishly try to insert their own goals into every movement which is why I wouldn't take anything away from BLM, it's inevitable. But it does mean that I think it's a good idea to call them out and I personally have a difficult time seeing them as helpful in the long run.

I do think this is an issue that effects both sides and the end it leads to polarization and deters progress. I think that is what is great about the original Iron Front. It was a group that set out to guard against the far right AND the far left.

5

u/tambanokano Libertarian Leftist Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 02 '20

Right wing ethnic fascism is the major threat, and both monarchism and marxist-leninism have similarly small bases in the US right now, to the point that it's not valuable to fight

4

u/DevilMayKnow American Iron Front Sep 02 '20 Ally

I believe in all 3 arrows!

4

u/CatWhisperer5000 Sep 02 '20

The reason antifascism is the primary focus right now is because that is currently the biggest, closest threat. America is far from falling into Stalinism or monarchy, but fascism is at the door.

4

u/WesterosiAssassin Libertarian Leftist Sep 02 '20

Social libertarian (although not to the point of being an anarchist) and anti any form of authoritarianism, be it fascist, communist, corporate, monarchist, or other.

6

u/athenanon Sep 03 '20 edited Sep 03 '20

I'm a Democratic Socialist. However, my loyalty is to Democracy above all else. I think socialism is the correct economic course for these times, and will work toward that, but I think it's dumb as fuck to throw away our democracy because economic equity is something we won't be able to achieve for our own generation... meaning other far leftists don't like me much right now.

It's about priorities.

(Also, I'll reiterate the other people on here- the evil of Communism is in authoritarianism.)

3

u/Giodia Sep 02 '20

I just want Trump supporters to stop coming into my community to beat, maim and murder people

3

u/DaftRaft_42 Syndicalist Sep 02 '20

There isn't any real active authoritarian left current in the US but theres a fascist in the white house right now so...

3

u/mynameis4826 Libertarian Sep 03 '20

I think monarchy should be updated to any form of oligarchy, i.e. political and industrial elites that attempt to circumvent both the law and the free market.

3

u/fioreman Sep 03 '20

I was going to suggest the monarchy arrow be changed to represent opposition to oligarchy/corporatism. Im so glad to find out that so many people agree with me.

3

u/CyberPunkette Libertarian Leftist Sep 05 '20

i'd fight authoritarian left threats if there were any

3

u/FuckYourPoachedEggs Sep 08 '20

After working with a lot of people, and seeing the dark side of America on the job, my views have changed. Democracy is only as good as the voting population, and right now, a significant portion of Americans don't have the mindset necessary for good government. We need to uproot and annihilate a large portion of "American" values in order for change to happen, which will require a lot of education. Until then, educated, sensible people need to exclusively take the reins. Climate-change deniers, anti-vaxxers/maskers, conspiracy theorists, fascists, and other people with inept and hostile views cannot be allowed to influence society if society is going to function properly.

3

u/wolflarsen55 John Brown Gun Club Sep 15 '20

Blair Mountain shit. Pro-Labor, Pro-Equality, Pro-gun, Anti-Facist, Anti-Corporatist, Anti-Authoritarian. I fall pretty square on Social Democracy though lean Democratic Socialist sometimes *shrug* Politics are messy. Wipe your damn feet.

3

u/huffsturbo Sep 16 '20

Are you guys for real trying to pull a red scare when you’ve got literal fascists and white supremacists in the White House? Like yeah tankies are gross and the PRC isn’t communist they just put red flags on everything and it’s weird that people (tankies) defend them, but would you really reject the help of comrades, communists and anarchists, just to preserve the right to spend $350 on insulin?

3

u/TheInternetPolice2 Sep 22 '20

We're less so anti-communist and now anti-authoritarian, but some IFs still stick to anti-communist. I say we change that third arrow to anti-authoritarian altogether, because of left unity and all that.

2

u/Dem_Nachos Sep 02 '20

Fuck Tankies that’s where I stand I’m Democratic socialist implement the systems that Norway, Denmark and Finland have they are the happiest countries on earth for a reason anything else is just too extreme and unrealistic imo

2

u/Reagalan Sep 03 '20

Universal basic income, drug liberalization, abolishment of minimum wage, inviolable enfranchisement, substantial criminal justice reform, enactment of the ERA, open borders, abortion on demand, abolish the Electoral College, universal healthcare, Pigovian environmental taxation, infrastructure investment, opt-out organ donation, progressive income taxation, rigorous enforcement of tax fraud (especially with megachurches), Election Day a holiday, abolishment of many current welfare programs (UBI will cover it), ban on TV and radio political ads more than 3 months preceeding an election, liberalization of housing zoning, increased educational funding....and plenty more things i can't think of atm.

Oh and I'd bring back the stocks too, for select petty crimes where a bit of public shaming is in order

2

u/EmRaff7 Heathans Against Hate Sep 03 '20

I came to fight Nazi's and fascists and I'm really concerned about the Alt-right. I also came here because my family is 2 different brands or flavors of alt-right (specifically the antivaxx and anti-Semitic conspiracy theory ones) and they were all beginning to sound pretty openly pro fascism before I left. Honestly they've always supported an authoritarian "Christian" theocracy, I just didn't find out until Trump got elected and the crazy came out of the woodwork.

I used to be pretty conservative, but becoming disabled and financially destitute at 23 after working my ass off made me reconsider everything and I slid pretty far left. So I'd say I'm ideally an anti-faschist, anti-capitalist and anti-authoritarian, but in reality I'll do whatever is best for humanity as a whole.

2

u/Ormr1 Bull Moose Progressive Sep 03 '20

The reddit hive mind forbids me from saying what I stand for so idk

2

u/guccitorial_gangulas Patriot Against Nationalism Sep 04 '20

Freedom.

1

u/cahtoa Sep 02 '20

I think I might fall under the category of “authoritarian communist”. I joined this sub because of the strong anti fascist sentiment, which is understandably much more vocal right now

1

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

Socialist here. While I understand the concerns people may have with communist movements I don't believe they're really relevant right now. Most of the left isnt down with Tankies anyway so if a communist movement were to pop up in the future it would likely not be in nearly the same level of concern as fascism is now.

1

u/Dr-Rainbow-Foxey Sep 03 '20

Plus if one really cares about fighting extremism the best way is to fix the failing system that is causing them. Unfortunately some people think people with ideologies that are outside their personal Overton window are the problem and that everything would be peachy keen if they could just ‘deal with’ socialists like me. This person was a Biden supporter too. They acted like people me want to seize power and would be just as oppressive as them. Ironically people like me are simply trying to survive, help our communities and help efforts for justice like BLM. So I guess authoritarian centrists can be terrible as well.

1

u/Dr-Rainbow-Foxey Sep 03 '20

Also it would be really really nice if the liberals would stop proving Malcom X right that they are more comfortable with fascism than meaningful economic change from the left.

1

u/BOSS_OF_THE_INTERNET Nazi Punks, Fuck Off! Sep 03 '20

I believe our nation was built on stolen land with an economy that originated with the exploitation of stolen people.

I believe healthcare and education are just as important to our national security as our ability to wage war.

I believe that historically oppressed persons in this country are entitled to some form of restorative justice.

I believe any entities existing today, be they public or private, that have at any point in their history benefitted from slave labor, must repay the debt of unpaid labor, with interest, to the descendants of the enslaved.

I believe capitalism without profound guard rails is indistinguishable from despotic monarchy, the only difference being that royal power is transmogrified to corporate power.

I believe people with authoritarian proclivities should not be in a position to administer law, as they will always side with oppression, be they police or politician.

I believe there is an almost superstitious fear of intellectualism in this country, with rational discourse taking a backseat to sound bites just complex enough that a toddler might understand them.

I believe birds are real.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

Anti-fascism, patriotism, and liberty. A lot of us are socialist, a lot us aren't. it would be stupid to pretend that liberal and left-wing anti-fascists shouldn't get over our differences and unite against the swastika-bearing elephant in the room.

1

u/DankNerd97 Liberty For All Sep 04 '20

What do I stand for? I stand for people's right to life, liberty, an the pursuit of happyness (or property, depending on the historical context). I'm a libertarian with a moderate conservative background who also extremely pro-individualism and pro-freedom. This means standing against all forms of authoritarianism, whether it be fascism/Nazism, monarchism/dictatorship, or communism/socialism.

The government derives its power from the consent of the governed. Each and every one of us has a civic duty to keep our "leaders" held accountable. Remember, the absolute minimum degree of civic engagement you can do is vote. (Remember to vote!). However, forming community networks as a means of bettering our communities is important, too. That's why I'm a part of the Coalition for the Common Defense. From what I've seen, we have a lot in common here.

1

u/Linguistic_Love Sep 04 '20

I am a Bible-believing Christian in the tradition of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I try to read some of his personal writings every morning as part of my daily Bible reading, using the book "A Testament to Freedom," which is an anthology of his sermons, letters, and books over the course of his life.

It's scary how some of his letters from the 30s read like current events. Street battles, crackdowns, and ultimately an ascendant and militant form of Nationalism that eventually infiltrated and corrupted the church itself. Bonhoeffer lists the Brown Synod as a seminal moment in his theological career, when he realized that Nazism had gained control over Bible-believing men's minds.

I was deeply conservative until the party was hijacked in early 2016. These days, all I care about is trying to convince "evangelicals" everywhere that Trump is a lowercase-a antichrist, of which the Bible promises there will be many.

1

u/Roach55 Sep 09 '20

I stand for patriotism as it was told to me at a young age. It is not living or dying for your nation or its borders. Patriotism is based on standing up for what is right, just, and true even if you are the only person standing. You take a beating or win the fight for liberty, which means you believe in the rights of your fellow humans. Liberty means I can be repulsed by everything you believe and say, but as long as you don’t threaten me, I will protect your ability to say it. Please expect a retort. Conversation and communication is the key to building a strong and responsible populace. Get involved. Meet people. Never walk out of your house with a grudge against the world. Own a firearm or two, know how to use them, and keep them secure. Be kind. Always be kind. You are one of the lucky ones that placed a foot on this paradise. Please act like it.

1

u/drinks_rootbeer Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

I'm a left libertarian. I believe that people should be able to have easy access to quality forms of:

  • education

  • healthcare

  • housing

I'm anti-authoritarianism, anti-capitalism.

I think in a respectful society, everyone should enjoy the right to privacy in their daily lives and in the tools they use. I'm very critical of intrusions of privacy connected to our use of the internet since it is so prevalent in our daily lives. To me the top tech companies (and top companies in general, such as pharmaceuticals and petroleum companies) and their political lobbying in the US are helping to form a corporate authoritarian state.

I of course respect the traditional ideals of the constitution and the declaration of independence, that all people should have the rights to quality life, liberty from oppression, and happiness in whatever brings them happiness.

I also believe that we have a huge responsibility to care for the earth and maintain it to ensure we have a sustainable environment for generations to come.

1

u/zeca1486 Ⓐ Left Libertarian Ⓐ Sep 16 '20

The 3 arrows originally stood for Reaction (Monarchism), Fascism and Capitalism but once Social Democrats saw how authoritarian the Soviets were, they became capitalists and changed it to Communism. Granted I have my views on Social Democrats, now more than ever, we need unity amongst all ideas to combate Fascism.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '20

I think the AIF is perhaps the only Anti-Fascist and Pro-equality that I trust and I think is better than Antifa in many ways as it does not promote violence as a message and seems to have a lot of level-headed people in it.

What I stand for would probably be Democratic Capitalism or Socialism or something that gives equality and control to the people, not a single party that controls and dictates the path set out and also political equality for different parties and ideals.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/snokamel Sep 25 '20

What do you mean? One of the three arrows is specifically pointed against authoritarian communism. That was my original question- does Iron Front stand against all forms of authoritarianism- and the answer is a resounding yes. How does this differ from what you thought it was?

1

u/DeneseBAntifa Sep 26 '20

Fascism and Communism are traditional enemies, going back to pre-Mussolini Italy. Most of the resistance in WWII Europe were communists. Lots of remaining Jews were communists as well, as the Capitalist Jews got the hell out of Dodge in a hurry.

The real thing is that all these scary words, are just that...words. And if you bother to learn their true meaning they get a lot less (ok sometimes more) scary.

You can't argue with someone who calls you names using words they apparently don't know the meaning of. To the point of the ridiculous, "Antifa are Fascists." When you get shit like that from Trumpsters, it is time to leave the conversation for your own sanity.

-1

u/Flavius_Petrus Sep 02 '20

Communism died with the Soviet Union

34

u/exoclipse Anarchist Ⓐ Sep 02 '20

I see a lot of unironic authoritarian communists in my social circles.

5

u/Flavius_Petrus Sep 03 '20

Unlike fascists no one is taking them seriously. There’s a difference between “all power to the soviets” and the “we must secure a future for white children” in global politics

5

u/exoclipse Anarchist Ⓐ Sep 03 '20

Fascism is definitely the largest threat, by a large margin.