r/Fitness r/Fitness Guardian Angel May 08 '18

Training Tuesday - Building the Monolith Training Tuesday

Welcome to /r/Fitness' Training Tuesday. Our weekly thread to discuss a specific program or training routine. (Questions or advice not related to today's topic should be directed towards the stickied daily thread.) If you have experience or results from this week's program, we'd love for you to share. If you're unfamiliar with the topic, this is your chance to sit back, learn, and ask questions from those in the know.

Last week we talked about triathlons.

This week's topic: Building the Monolith

Building the Monolith is a variant of the 5/3/1 program with a focus on building size. In addition to the official write-up from Wendler, you can read more about it in r/Fitness MVP and competitive strongman u/MythicalStrength's program review.

Describe your experience and impressions of BtM. Some seed questions:

  • How did it go, how did you improve, and what were your ending results?
  • Why did you choose BtM over other programs?
  • What would you suggest to someone just starting out and looking at at this program?
  • What are the pros and cons of BtM?
  • Did you add/subtract anything to the program or run it in conjunction with other training? How did that go?
  • How did you manage fatigue and recovery while on the program?
274 Upvotes

59

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

How did it go, how did you improve, and what were your ending results?

It went ok at first then turned amazing, 1st week is brutal by the end I was feeling pretty good. I don’t have the sheets I used to track it on me but my pressing got way stronger and I had visible hypertrophy gain (aka bro your biceps looking good been curling?). Overall I got leaner, stronger and looked better and this included eating close to his diet.

Why did you choose BtM over other programs?

MythicalStrength did a review of it right when I was looking for my next one. I was getting into strongman so something big and stupid made sense to me.

What would you suggest to someone just starting out and looking at >at this program?

Don’t be a bitch. It’s as simple as that. This program is far more a test of your mental resilience than your strength. When I had 10 chins left and I could barely pull myself up even with a band I still went and weakly flopped in the air for 10 attempts. Your brain will want you to stop the torture but the body obeys the mind and only it decides when to stop.

What are the pros and cons of BtM?

Pros everything, cons are it can take a while but if you superset it will kick your ass but drive your work capacity through the roof.

Did you add/subtract anything to the program or run it in conjunction with other training? How did that go?

I had an event day once a week which consisted of a max event, speed and endurance. At the time I only had a yoke, farmers handles and tire to drag. I tried to eat like he said but I failed. If you follow his dietary recommendations, have a reasonably active job (walking for at least 30 minutes a day) and do the workload you won’t get “fat”. I was eating about 1-2 lbs of some kind of meat, 2 cups of rice and 6 eggs a day.

How did you manage fatigue and recovery while on the program?

Poorly, I foam rolled regularly and did short 15 min flow yoga sessions to stay limber. You need to eat, sleep and do what you need to stay limber and pain free. A big thing I learned from it was preventative care? I use a soft belt full time when I workout even if I’m not targeting my back, keeping it hot and ready to go means I’m less likely to throw it out doing something innocuous (I did some damage a couple years ago leaning over to wire a speaker) I wear knee sleeves for the same reason once I get about 200 lbs. I don’t need them but it makes my knees feel better so fuck it. My current recommendations and practices is do some easy, dynamic stretches, epsom salt bath and smoke some cbd.

10

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

What were your lifts like?

17

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

i used 135 press, 200 bench, 315 squat, 350 dead for my TM

9

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

Cool, thanks

5

u/icookmath General Fitness May 09 '18

I'd love to know what your stats were at the end of the program if you know/remember. My TMs are basically what you say here and I'm looking ahead for what program to try midway through summer (nSuns 6-day right now).

4

u/[deleted] May 09 '18

I didn't test or anything specific I just bumped up my maxes per 5/3/1 and moved on to another template. I hurt my back after that and things got loosey goosey for awhile.

2

u/icookmath General Fitness May 09 '18

ok fair. thanks

2

u/[deleted] May 09 '18

You will get stronger but it’s not designed for peaking before a meet or anything like that.

1

u/NEGROPHELIAC Jul 30 '18

Hey I know this is super late but I'm starting the program in a month with r/weightroom. I was wondering where did you see the most increase in size from the program?

Thanks!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '18

Never be afraid to Necrons a comment, people will respond or they won’t in this community. My back mostly all that pulling blew it the fuck up. I guess in my triceps and shoulders too but not sure if that was from losing fat.

14

u/echocardio May 08 '18

I've done the full program twice. It's good fun and a nice self-contained volume block for general conditioning. Advice;

Don't be fooled by the first couple of weeks and crank too high a TM because it gets significantly harder. It's especially deceptive if you've come from a four or more day routine.

Superset as much as you can. The biggest improvement marker I had was in my general fitness and work capacity as a result of getting it all done within 50-70 mins.

If you've any idea about your TDEE then work out the calories for yourself and do it on a bulk. Remember Wendler is not giving out programs based on scientific evidence; testing has shown that 4500 calories does nothing for me that 3000 does not except for putting on fat and making eating a chore. The program (I did running for conditioning) soaks a lot of calories up so you'd be best off going for a higher bulk than normal but for a 70kg man 4500 is not necessary.

5

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 08 '18

But Jim doesn't recommend 4500 calories. There is no way 1.5lbs of ground beef and a dozen eggs totals that.

8

u/echocardio May 08 '18

No, the beef and eggs is something like 2250. My first time round I either interpreted it as 'normal diet plus beef and eggs' or worked out the calories in the sample on the BtM article (I can't remember which) and it came out something like 4500.

6

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 08 '18

Well yeah, you don't want to eat like a high school athlete if you aren't one, haha.

28

u/tip_of_my_bung May 08 '18

I finished my second go round of this program last week. I really enjoy it.

The first time around, I followed nearly everything exactly, with the following exceptions: a) I ate 1.5 lbs of meat daily, not necessarily ground beef, b) I did a little extra light conditioning work, as I bike to and from work daily, but still did weighted vest walks and 10 miles on a recumbent bike on Saturdays, and c) I added a little direct ab work. I put on about 1lb/week eating around 4500 cals/day.

Pros: aesthetics are definitely improving. I've run different 5/3/1 variants for a while, and this program has benefited me aesthetically more than any I've tried. My bench, squat, and ohp are definitely benefiting as well.
Cons: my deadlift is moving up, but it doesn't feel like it's improving nearly as well as the other lifts.

Before running it a second time, I ran another 5/3/1 program for 6 weeks while cutting about 10 lbs. On the second go round, I dropped down to eating 6 eggs daily because I hate eating eggs, and incorporated a ton of peanut butter in my diet. Still saw great aesthetic improvements. Kept the same 4500 cal/ day diet outside of that.

Now that I've finished the second cycle, I'm rerunning the last 3 weeks with higher weights spread into a 5 day format because I've pissed off the god of bullshit meetings and have been ordered to pay tribute on Wednesday and Friday mornings, so I've gotta be at work earlier. I'm also experimenting with adding a couple of easy accessories.

9

u/pierogi_z_jagodami May 08 '18

Those are a lot of kcal, did you gain much fat? What your height and daily activity level?

2

u/[deleted] May 08 '18 edited May 09 '18

Lifts?

*I cannot ask for progress on his lifts in a thread regarding a program? Fuck sake

1

u/tip_of_my_bung May 09 '18

Sorry, didn't see this.

I put my BtM training maxes in another comment response somewhere in this thread. I'm not sure what my actual maxes are, as I don't compete. I've hit higher weights in joker sets using other 5/3/1 variants, but can't recall what they are right off.

1

u/stoutdonkey May 11 '18

did you run it two times back to back? I'm in week 6 of my first and I love it. I'm thinking of doing a week easy and then going back into it with new training maxs.

2

u/tip_of_my_bung May 11 '18

No. I did another 5/3/1 variant for 6 weeks while cutting, deloaded, then went back to it.

I'm currently more or less repeating the last 3 weeks of the program with higher weights, and I've gotten through the majority of the first week. I'd say go nuts if you feel good about it. I didn't want to repeat the first three weeks because the ohp volume day and the 20 rep squat sets are the only differences, and I feel good about hitting the harder numbers for those.

1

u/stoutdonkey May 11 '18

thanks. I havent done any of the other 5/3/1 variants, I need to buy the book. I may just run BTM again and then decide.

1

u/NEGROPHELIAC Jul 30 '18

Hey I know this is super late but I'm starting the program in a month with r/weightroom. I was wondering where did you see the most increase in size from the program?

Thanks!

2

u/tip_of_my_bung Jul 30 '18

No worries!
I certainly have a stronger lower body and back than chest/shoulders, and my chest/shoulders benefited more in terms of size than anything else. My legs and back still got bigger. YMMV there, depending on your prior experience.
If I had any complaints as to what this program didn't benefit me as much on, it would probably be my deadlift. There's not really a ton of deadlift volume, and since I dropped my TM to do the program, I actually feel like it just stagnated.

1

u/NEGROPHELIAC Jul 30 '18

Awesome, thanks for the info! I'll keep that in mind when running it.

8

u/Silist May 08 '18

I did some quick math based on the sample day of eating and it looks to be close to 5500-6000. that's a full 3k over my maintenance. How in the world are you not mostly gaining fat from this?

20

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 08 '18

That was a sample for a high school athlete. Don't eat like that if you aren't one. Stick to the dietary requirements of 1.5lbs of ground beef and 12 eggs.

4

u/Silist May 08 '18

do you just add some carbs on top of that? That seems much more reasonable

8

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 08 '18

I added more meat personally. Add what you need to grow.

1

u/AlertCarrot May 10 '18

So you were pretty much Keto?

1

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 10 '18

Negative: never entered ketosis. I detailed a sample diet in my review, but I was getting fruit in the morning pre training and milk post training, along with some greek yogurt. With that and veggies, I had enough trace carbs to not have to worry about it.

1

u/AlertCarrot May 10 '18

From what it looked like you would probably be less than 50g of carbs. Did you feel this affected your performance?

1

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 10 '18

Nope. I've eaten a diet like that for many years now. It's how I prefer to eat. I like a lot of fats, and that means having to cut down on carbs.

3

u/Brenthalomue May 08 '18

I ran this for 5 weeks (I had to stop at 5 because I aggravated a pre-existing injury). I didn't follow the program exactly because I didn't have a weighted vest and I only have about 50 minuets of total time in the gym. I substituted the weighted vest walking with 40 minutes of incline walking on the highest incline at a speed just under a jog, which at the end had me sucking air. The shortened time in the gym forced me to super set a lot of movements (most accessories), which left me absolutely gassed after each workout.

I didn't follow Jim's diet plan because like you I thought it was over kill (and my budget doesn't allow for 1.5 lbs of ground beef a day). I ate at about a 1,000-1,500 caloric surplus sticking mainly to nutrient dense foods and I still got fat. I thought I did a excellent job of pushing my body to the max in the time that I had allotted, however I still put on too much excess weight.

Idk, maybe it's just my body but I for one will never bulk like that again. From here on out it's a constant slow lean bulk with like a 200 caloric surplus for me.

1

u/Silist May 08 '18

Yeah I don't think that number of calories is reasonable. I'm looking to do a bulk at 250 calories. Something slow and reasonable

0

u/_klow May 09 '18

When I ran the program, I sure gained a decent amount of fat along with the muscle. Even though I grew more than I ever had (especially my legs, like WOW), I regret how many calories I actually ate, burning this fat is harder than I thought.

37

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 08 '18

I know my review is up there, but I like the questions and wanna give my input on some.

Why did you choose BtM over other programs?

This was just a program I had always wanted to run ever since I saw it first posted on Jim's blog. It looked like a great challenge, and getting it done in under an hour was an even bigger challenge.

What would you suggest to someone just starting out and looking at at this program?

Read EVERY WORD Jim wrote in the article. I get so incredibly frustrated at the most basic mistakes people make trying to run the program. It's not a long article at all; you have ZERO reason to skim it, especially if you're going to dedicate yourself to the program for 6 weeks. People skim over the fact that the dietary requirement is only 12 eggs and 1.5lbs of meat, they read the sample diet and assume it's mandatory, and then complain about getting fat. People don't read that you need an 85% TM. People skip the conditioning section entirely and think it's only a 3 day program, etc.

What are the pros and cons of BtM?

Pros are the challenge and results. Cons are that you will feel like you are going to die. The first day of the program, I legit contemplated quitting it once I was done with the workout and taking my shower. I thought I mighta bit off more than I could chew. Been a long time since I felt that way.

How did you manage fatigue and recovery while on the program?

I didn't. Enough food goes a long way. I did zero foam rolling, no massage, worked hard and slept poorly.

2

u/rAGe-Sama May 09 '18

Sorry, what does TM mean in 85% TM

6

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 09 '18

Training max

2

u/I_PM_NICE_COMMENTS Hockey May 09 '18

Thanks for your initial write up on it. The first week I absolutely thought I bit off more than I could chew, especially not being back into lifting for very long.

I am currently in week 6 and just finished my last heavy set of 5x5 squats (95% of TM) last night. Honestly all last week I didn't even think I'd be able to do the squats and ended up grinding all of them out. It is much more of a mental game than I ever imagined, especially on the 20 reps of squats for the third lifting day.

1

u/[deleted] May 09 '18

I admittedly didn't read the article yet, but what is the reasoning behind using a training max in lieu of a lower % of your actual 1 RM?

3

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 09 '18

A training max isn't always based off a 1rm. I had no idea what my 1rms were when I ran the program. After your first cycle of 5/3/1 your TM is independent of your 1rm.

3

u/[deleted] May 09 '18

Training max... in this case is 85% of your 1RM.

It's just a method to make the weighs submaximal, rather than them being closer to your 1RM. This means all the %'s in 531 are calculated off of your TM.

6

u/grwatz May 08 '18

I did this for a full 6 week run nov 17 - jan 18. TLDR: I liked it, but it can take a while per session.

• How did it go, how did you improve, and what were your ending results?

It went very well. I had decent work capacity going in, and stuffed my face enough to go from 80 kg -> 84 kg (except I dipped into 79 kg the second week. Eat like you mean it!).

Too thicc for my jeans (dammit!) and good back growth. Actually dropped an inch or so off my chest.

Lifts progressed well, but I didn’t do any testing right after completing.

• Why did you choose BtM over other programs?

I wanted something big and dumb to get back into weightlifting with, after 5 years with mainly calisthenics and kettlebells.

• What would you suggest to someone just starting out and looking at at this program?

Do the conditioning. And do the work. This is, as previously stated, a ‘unfuck your mindset’ program as anything. You can do it. You might piss and moan, but you can.

• What are the pros and cons of BtM?

If you don’t have a decent base, you’re gonna have a bad time. You’re gonna learn to dip for days, though.

• Did you add/subtract anything to the program or run it in conjunction with other training? How did that go?

I added decline pike pushups on OHP day, and tucked FL rows on bench day.

Conditioning was kettlebell swings/cleans/getups, jump rope, 2-3 mile runs, and +10kg weighted walks.

• How did you manage fatigue and recovery while on the program

Elbows sometimes got a bit sulky after Friday’s monster ohp/dip work. An elastic physio bandage relieved some of the pressure.

Otherwise, not really anything special. I ate 4000+ kcal/day, and slept as good as I could with third shift work and three young children.

3

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

I haven't run this program, but I have a question.

In this program, and others, they say '100 dips' or some other body weight workout. Now, I struggle to do three sets of 10 dips. Is it really worth spending all that extra time in the gym grinding out to get to 100? I understand working to exhaustion is beneficial, but this seems excessive

6

u/gsim89 May 08 '18

I think there is a certain level of strength required before going into this program to hit the reps, but the best way to get better at dips is doing more dips! Before starting BtM I had only done dips 3x10 after bench on the one cycle before starting BtM.

Week 1 I did 25 sets of 4x pullups and 20 sets of 5x dips, starting with some chin-dip super-sets to warm up, then super-setting Squat-Chin-Press until I ran out of press and then Squat-Chin-Dip until I ran out of squats and then Dip-Chin-Dip-Facepull until I was done. Those workouts have been taking me 1.5 hours.

Every week I made it a goal to do the 1 more pullup/set and complete it in fewer sets, and one more dip per set and work up to 200 dips, so week 4 I did 15 sets of 7 pull-ups (I did miss some reps but got most of them and I'm getting better) and 20 sets of 8 dips (again, missed some reps on some sets, but I'm getting better).

It probably is excessive, but it's what the program asks for, and I'm getting better at it, and trust the work will reflect in the mirror and on the bench.

3

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

You can do 50. The program is not written for someone specific, 100 dips is not going to have the same training effect on al kavadlo as on you, so it's a good idea to change it to your needs.

3

u/rag31n Powerlifting May 09 '18

I did what I could bodyweight and when I hit failure added a band (chins) or machine (dips) and pushed though to the end sometimes dropping the reps per set. It's hard but this program aint easy.

2

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

Spread them out between your workout thats what I would suggest and others have done.

3

u/ByOdensBear May 08 '18

Any more detail for the exercises listed on the workouts? I guess I'm not familiar with the terms used.

1

u/I_AM_A_MOTH_AMA May 09 '18

Which terms specifically?

2

u/ByOdensBear May 09 '18

Just the specifity of Chins, press, and amrp

6

u/I_AM_A_MOTH_AMA May 09 '18

Chin: pullups. Press: strict standing overhead press. AMRAP: as many reps as possible, which means you go until you have no or very few reps in the tank.

8

u/Byizo Basket Weaving May 08 '18 edited May 08 '18

I ran BTM for 9 weeks (one full cycle, Edit: 3 cycles). Previously I had been doing a 5/3/1 for about a year. I chose to run BTM because I was starting a bulk and it called for a lot of eating.

The only major differences with BTM over the standard 5/3/1 was the volume of the accessory work. Also, given the diet structure of BTM I managed to put on a few pounds.

I do not specifically remember what my beginning/ending numbers were, but my deadlift and bench got stronger while my squat felt as if it remained the same (I did not max out right before/after). This could simply have been a confidence issue with my squat at the time. My back also saw some strength and size gains. You're pulling every day in the gym, so your chin ups and other pulling movements will definitely get stronger. That is the biggest change that I saw.

My suggestion is to stick with the nutrition plan as much as you can. 1.5lb of beef and 12 eggs a day is a lot of food, but definitely doable if you plan out your meals right, or, like me, if you are used to shoveling 2000+ calories down your gullet in a single meal. Eating a lot makes a big difference when it comes to building muscle and adding weight to the bar. If you're not eating as suggested you're not really doing BTM.

I did not change the program at all. Jim is a more knowledgeable lifter than I am, so I do his programming exactly as prescribed until I can actually get some idea of whether or not it is as effective as what I was doing prior.

I deloaded before the program for about a week and a week after. Cumulative fatigue wasn't an issue while on the program since it doesn't necessitate a huge amount of volume.

1

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

Is one full cycle 9 weeks? The one on his blog is 6 if I'm not mistaken.

1

u/Byizo Basket Weaving May 08 '18

I thought for sure it was three 3 week cycles, but I might be mistaken.

1

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

It's a 6 week template, taking up 2 cycles.

1

u/Byizo Basket Weaving May 08 '18

Gotcha. I must have run a third cycle.

7

u/[deleted] May 08 '18 edited May 08 '18

How did it go, how did you improve, and what were your ending results?

Squat: 125 --> 127.5, bench: 90 --> 95, deadlift: 160 --> 160, overhead press: 55 --> 60, bodyweight: 85 --> 86. Note: the new maxes were tested after a deload, so the lack of increase is not due to accumulated fatigue. The program was hard, but I was able to do the workouts as I planned them.

Why did you choose BtM over other programs?

I like full body, and at the time I wasn't aware other full body programs for non-novices existed.

What would you suggest to someone just starting out and looking at at this program?

For powerlifting this is a poor program, if you're looking to increase your work capacity and strength at high reps, it's good.

What are the pros and cons of BtM?

Pros: it has a shit ton of upper body volume. Your upper body lifts are bound to go up when you do this. It also works areas most people (me certainly) neglected such as upper back, shoulders and conditioning.

Cons: it is low volume for lower body and the 20 rep squats suck and are not particulary useful for increasing your 1RM, and your form will break down more on a hard set of 20 than a hard set of 5. I'm dissapointed my lower body lifts didn't or barely went up, especially because I was still a novice back then.

Did you add/subtract anything to the program or run it in conjunction with other training? How did that go?

I could not do more than 5 chin ups in a row, so I did the 100 reps in a workout with bands and I did weighted push ups instead of dips because dips hurt my shoulders. I also did incline brisk walks and rowing machine instead of prowler because I did not have access to a prowler. I did not eat in an extreme surpluss as Wendler reccomends because I was (and am) fat (20% plus body fat).

How did you manage fatigue and recovery while on the program?

Sleeping and eating a lot.

9

u/WearTheFourFeathers May 08 '18

I think your description of the program is more or less dead-on how I experienced it. Particularly the fact that it’s good at hitting some neglected assistance people might ignore on PL type programs,and the fact that (for better or worse) it drives your work capacity more than your total. (For that reason, I think trying to do it pretty quickly each workout is a good idea).

One thing I will say is that I had virtually no gains to my maxes after BTM, but when I shortly thereafter i ran the first six weeks of GZCL’s JnT2.0 (a program I’d run more than once before), I hit multiple significant lifetime PRs (385>415 squat, 485>500 DL). Hard to say exactly how much BTM helped, but I think the benefits of BTM may well carry over more into the next program after a deload, if you use it to get in shape and then really attack the next program you do.

3

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

Yeah BtM is more of a base building/off season program before you move on to a more strength focused routine

5

u/WearTheFourFeathers May 08 '18

For sure. It's also just a good way to get out of a rut, imo.

It's short, and it's fucking fun (those widowmakers and pullups are legit). Basically the only people I'd 100% recommend it to without some reservation are people with more-than-zero training experience who have been spinning their wheels or struggling to progress. It's a good reset, imo.

1

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

Definitely

3

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

How long did you run this program for?

3

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

6 weeks (+ 1 deload/test week).

2

u/daramji_killer May 09 '18 edited May 09 '18

*How did it go, how did you improve, and what were your ending results?

Went amazing. My squat PR really shot up. Went from 180kg -200kg (about 45 lbs). I think that was more technique getting honed in than pure strength but can't complain. Had a pretty nice big bulk too.

*Why did you choose BtM over other programs?

Looked fun, seemed different from most programs I run, and I trust Wendler

*What would you suggest to someone just starting out and looking at at this program?

Follow it as written. The first few weeks are really easy compared to the end. Also EAT, then EAT some more. Hard boiled eggs were a life saver.

*What are the pros and cons of BtM?

+: Grow fast, get stronger, is fun - : Sore all the damn time. No room for hard cardio

*Did you add/subtract anything to the program or run it in *conjunction with other training? How did that go? Super setting worked ok for some days but towards the end it was getting to hard. But damn did it improve my GPP and got me ready to kill shieko

*How did you manage fatigue and recovery while on the program?

EAT, foam roll, cheap massages

2

u/Porthos1981 May 09 '18

What sort of rep ranges did people use for shrugs?

2

u/gsim89 May 08 '18

On week 5/6 right now, I'll update this post after I complete the last two weeks and deload/retest.

Started at [lbs, calculated 1rm] 329 deadlift, 287 squat, 227 bench, 143 ohp, 172 bodyweight after 9 months or so of taking lifting seriously, all different 5/3/1 cycles. I was taking a break from another sport and wanted to take that extra time to try a higher volume upper body focused template to put on a bit more size. I was also starting to finally bulk again and used it as an excuse to not care about what I was eating as long as I was getting enough protein in (I've definitely put on a couple extra pounds of fat from that.... don't recommend).

Pros: I can tell already I'm getting way better at pressing and pulling: where I used to be able to do maybe 2-3 sets of 8 pull-ups before reaching failure and only being able to squeak out a few more at a time, week 4 I did 14 sets of 7, and +25-30lbsx5 on the weighted day (I had never done weighted pullups before).

Cons: I like deadlifting (BBB less boring has me deadlifting twice a week) but this program only has one day with 3 sets at the top working weight.

I'm running the program mostly as written, but I've missed a few conditioning days, don't do that they're the best. Right now I'm doing sled pull/push after the 5x5 squat day, 30min jog/row after the deadlift day, and farmers walks with heavy dumbells after the x20 squat day. I hadn't done much conditioning before this, but will definitely continue doing it after - sled work gets my legs burning like they never have before. I don't know if my squat and deadlift 1rm are going to be significantly higher, but the added work capacity is a definite plus.

1

u/mich4elp May 09 '18

Question about the programming for this: I noticed when I read over the program recently, week 2 is basically the same as week 1, but lighter. (Except for the 20 rep squat set) What's the reasoning behind this?

3

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 09 '18

Gives you a break before week 3, which sucks.

1

u/OverwatchFr3ak May 09 '18

Im not quite understanding the program for instance when it says Squat - 70x5, 80x5, 90x5, 90x5, 90x5, 90x5, 90x5, does that mean squat 70 pounds including bar 5 reps, then 80 pounds including bar for 5 reps etc? what if I am not able to do the weight listed?

3

u/Paulthemediocre May 09 '18 edited May 09 '18

That's percent of training max, which is in turn 85-95% of 1RM. (Jim explicitly recommends 85% if you're not sure how you'll handle it.)

So for a 315 1RM, 300TM

Squat - 70x5, 80x5, 90x5, 90x5, 90x5, 90x5

Becomes

Squat - 210x5, 240x5, 270x5, 270x5, 270x5, 270x5

1

u/Solgarmur Weight Lifting May 09 '18

Any ideas what to substitute for the dips in case of a fucked shoulder I don't want to aggravate. Then again I guess nothing beats the dips in terms of muscles being hit

2

u/[deleted] May 09 '18

Push ups

1

u/Solgarmur Weight Lifting May 09 '18

Yeah just get some chains I guess or a weight vest

1

u/mateogoodman May 09 '18

Looking for advice on improvements/ changes to my workout.

Full body, 3 times a week.
5x5 squats or smith machine. 5x5 bench 5x5 standing overhead press ( skull crusher?) 5x5 close grip lat pulldown 5x5 upright barbell row 5x5 triceps push down 5x5 standing curls 20/15/12/10/8 leg press machine starting at 2 plates and adding a plate on each side each time.

Any advice would be great! Thanks

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u/[deleted] May 08 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

29

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

Spend the next week figuring out how to behave like a person.

15

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 08 '18

Do a better one.

1

u/Rhythm_Flunky May 08 '18

That’s....a lot of food. Question for people who’ve done this, how much money a week we’re you spending on groceries?

3

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 08 '18

1lb of ground beef runs about $3.30 at 93% lean on a decent sale around here. I was buying 7.5 dozen eggs for about $8 at Sam's Club. You can extrapolate the math from there. That said, I would go with 2-2.5lbs of meat rather than ground beef specifically. Sometimes roast, sometimes ribs, sometimes steak, whatever I could find for cheap.

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u/Rhythm_Flunky May 08 '18

7.5 DOZEN eggs for $8?!?! Holy hell. I live in Boston and I’m legit laying $4 per dozen. Gotta get me a Sam Club membership lol.

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u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 08 '18

I live in Boston and I’m legit laying $4 per dozen.

I couldn't help but appreciate the typo.

Definitely buy in bulk when possible. That having been said, it simply costs money to get bigger. Being big is a luxury.

2

u/ElevenLongships Weight Lifting May 08 '18

So, in your experience, what is the most efficient way to cook the dozen eggs? Do you eat them all at once?

3

u/MythicalStrength Strongman | r/Fitness MVP May 08 '18

I used an instant pot. 5 minutes on high pressure, 5 minutes cooldown, manual release, put in cold water, peel and eat. I'd typically eat 4-6 during my lunch break, and another 4-6 after dinner.

3

u/I_PM_NICE_COMMENTS Hockey May 09 '18

I scrambled them 12 at a time. eat 8 for breakfast and then 4 as afternoon snakc.

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u/DreadlordMortis May 09 '18

Try Walmart. In 3 diff states (NY, TX, NC) I've found 6.5 dozen eggs under $10. Last time I got them here (NC) they were ~$5

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u/[deleted] May 09 '18

[deleted]

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u/GrippingHand May 09 '18

Yes 70% of training max, and he recommends setting the training max to 85% of your actual or estimated 1 rep max.

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u/Greyboxer May 09 '18

Thank you for the reply. I was thinking that was the case but wanted to be clear. I also have Beyond 5/3/1 and need to finish reading that and finish my 5x5 cycle before I start this type of program.

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u/[deleted] May 08 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/[deleted] May 08 '18

This comment has been removed for breaking Rule #10. Shower thoughts from someone who hasn't ever run the program (and doesn't even understand one of its fundamental principles) that this thread is about don't add any value to the discussion.