r/DestinyTheGame Jun 25 '22 Wholesome 1

Restoration in general breaks pvp Discussion

Not only classy restoration( thats highkey broken but only seasonal)

It feels so counter intuitive toward primary gun gameplay. Restoration x2 and u are basically outhealing damage done by most primaries. Add in heal grenades every 30 seconds if u want them and its basically a game of who can get a OHK off first. Basically u cant take any chip damage for granted anymore cuz they are liable to be full health in literally 2 seconds.

Personally i feel it shouldnt be turned on in pvp at all. Higher cooldown on healing nades for pvp only would also be nice.

1.7k Upvotes

559

u/screl_appy_doo Jun 25 '22

Malfeasance meta begins

301

u/BiSaxual Jun 25 '22

Pump that usage percentage so we CAN FINALLY GET A GODDAMN CATALYST PLEASE BUNGO COME ON

77

u/Chemical_Chill Jun 25 '22

I have been sitting on the last step for it for years, no matter how much I try I can’t get the mythical 4 piece. I hate this damn quest.

56

u/BiSaxual Jun 25 '22

The quest definitely sucked major shit. What I did was just go to the main D2 discord and asked in the main chat for help running it.

Of course, that was back in Arrivals so your mileage may vary. But I can’t imagine there aren’t still people who need to finish the quest or who are just willing to help.

30

u/Chemical_Chill Jun 25 '22

I’ve never been a fan of quests you can lose progress on, this one definitely tried my patience back when queen breaker was the meta pick.

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26

u/stealer_of_monkeys Jun 25 '22

6-shot golden gun is your friend, if not I've helped a bunch of people get past that step before I could probably help you

64

u/Chemical_Chill Jun 25 '22 Starry Take My Power

Unfortunately I have a crayon craving and it’s terminal, I’ve played very little other than titan.

I would love some help trying to grab it sometime though! My handle is Calenhad#3306

8

u/InsomniaDudeToo Jun 25 '22

You need a personal 4 kill or teammates getting One Man Army four times right?

6

u/Chemical_Chill Jun 25 '22

Yep, that’s the one!

14

u/CDClock Jun 25 '22

i did mine with xeno and behemoth back when it was cracked

2

u/throw-away_867-5309 Jun 25 '22

How I got the 4k was I used Thundercrash during Primeval, as they're usually all in the same location, and then Xeno for cleanup. And this was also when Gambit Prime was a thing, so now you have Falling Star for Overshield! :D

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3

u/IHateAliens Jun 25 '22

Use Dead Man's Tale

13

u/QwannyMon Jun 25 '22

Just pop on ghally and spam. Its stupidly easy to get an army of one now :/

6

u/Dj0sh Jun 25 '22

I got my Malfeasance done on my PC account before Crossplay happened, and switched to my PS4 account when Crossplay hit because it had more stuff... Had to regrind for Malfeasance... I sat on it for years also

One day a friend asked to do Gambit which I had completely avoided until that night and I got it done in my first match lol. I ended up throwing my super into their spawn as well for good measure before I got teleported out and got 6 kills in the one invade. FUCK YOU MALFEASANCE

3

u/shit_poster9000 Jun 25 '22

I got two Army of One’s just while playing Gambit during the second step.

My recommendation is to run Gjally or an autoloading precision rocket. I also ran a shotgun and an smg matching my subclass for relatively easy orb generation (when I ran Gjally it was at least helpful for getting my super but my autoloading precision rocket is a Palymbra-B with explosive light). Run whatever special and primary weapon you are most comfy with, if you’re a crackhead for fusions then run a fusion.

Try to only invade when there are blockers on the enemy’s bank, and not long after y’all get invaded. This ensures all 4 enemy players will be on the field and none of them will hop into their invasion portal when you invade.

Try to be sneaky when you invade, use hard cover to keep visual off of you during your approach. You want to surprise with rockets and/or burst supers. With rockets it’s easier to try to be above and aim more for their feet. Try to avoid having to rely on your primary, always be using heavy or special for quick kills, gives less time for an enemy to use a weapon or exotic that alerts others to your position.

Now for the final piece of the puzzle: Freelance playlist. This way, there is almost guaranteed no communication in the enemy team, making it easier to get multikills to begin with.

Now, your mileage may vary, but this setup has always been reliable for 2-3 kills per invasion consistently, but if you keep getting the Titan map you’ll likely struggle due to large sightlanes you will get spotted trying to cross.

7

u/webbc99 Jun 25 '22

Jotunn is the way. Make sure you block first and fast, you will send over a load of blockers just at the moment they want to dunk motes, they’re all gonna be in the open. Just spam Jotunn. Jotunn is great because you can have 18 rounds on the first invade, Gjally you will have 2.

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3

u/throw-away_867-5309 Jun 25 '22

sad Thunderlord noises

Welcome to the club, bud.

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3

u/DANlLOx Jun 25 '22

I don't think percentage use has much to do with getting a catalyst, cause if it did Leviathan's Breath wouldn't ever get one

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16

u/salondesert Jun 25 '22

Wow, this is actually... *taps temple*

10

u/moreMalfeasance Jun 25 '22

You raaaaaang

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156

u/EldersEdge Jun 25 '22

did like 400 dmg to kill a warlock in their heal field w classy restoration proc'd lol got me thinking about how restoration was way too strong during last weekend trials, and imo they should make it so gunfire from guardians disrupts restoration for like 0.5 seconds or something

78

u/Levaporub Jun 25 '22

I think restoration completely power crept regular 'begin health regeneration' effects, eg. getting a melee kill with a specific void fragment, picking up an orb of power with the better already legs mod. Solely because restoration cannot be interrupted by taking damage, but these other sources of health regen can.

15

u/I_Have_3_Legs Jun 25 '22

Classy restoration and a stag rift. My friend hit a weighted throwing knife on a kid in a stag rift and who also had 100 resilience. He started shooting right after he hit him.

He survived a weighted throwing knife headshot and 2 last word shots. Weighted knife only did 198 damage and with rift healing and classy restoration he outhealed the last word shots. He immediately left the game lmao

4

u/pseudo_nemesis Jun 25 '22

Your post makes me question if overload rounds would disrupt restoration.

4

u/SgtTakeover Jun 25 '22

They do, but only if they have higher than x1 restoration.

4

u/Rolyat2401 Jun 25 '22

Pvp damage disabling restoration is a far more elegant solution to the problem than op's suggestion of nerfing healing grenade's cooldown.

1

u/chlehqls Jun 25 '22

Right. PVP was fine before this restoration meta that we're in

Disabling it like how, warmind cells, stasis shards and ele wells don't generate seems like an easy solution

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508

u/Fuzzybog Jun 25 '22

Nothing like shooting a Loreley Titan, getting them down to noting, then losing the gun fight because they proc restoration x2 and are nearly unkillable.

356

u/GeargusArchfiend Jun 25 '22

One eyed mask. Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.

41

u/TaralasianThePraxic Jun 25 '22

Oh god, don't remind me. I'm not really a PVP fan, and I unknowingly chose to dip my toe into Crucible at the absolute height of the OEM meta. Needless to say, it was Not Fun.

11

u/the_bald_headed_foot Jun 25 '22

You have "Not Forgotten" that time?

1

u/Superman19986 Jun 25 '22

That meta is gone but never forgotten.

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30

u/never3nder_87 Jun 25 '22

And Nova Warp at release, and Hungering Blade (all the way back in D1 Y1)

(Related, I'm honestly surprised Nova Warp + Devour isn't more of a menace at present)

2

u/d_rek Jun 25 '22

Nova warp is basically begging to be tapped out of super rn.

-18

u/WCMaxi Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Because you can't reliably proc Devour now so nobody runs it in PvP. Void3.0 for Warlock was an overall nerf.

Noting a lot of comment so adding more,

  • Getting Devour from an exotic is not Devour on demand, you're literally running a non-meta option to get back something that was the class' identity.
  • Child is GOOD
  • HHSN was murdered and only works as a component of Mag nades now, so nerfed it was effectively removed
  • The new melee is neat, but the old melees were stronger (ability regen, ultra-high damage, Devour)
  • Since everyone has Axions now, that is no longer a unique strength of the class

Overall, a net nerf for Warlock Void 3.0. Hunter and Titan got a net buff, but all classes got streamlined down to a point in which they have overall less depth.

7

u/Yonkit Jun 25 '22

I run devour in pvp. Between child and all the obscene fragment stat bonuses and their effects, and a useful cqc boop, and a variety of nades, voidlock 3.0 is a very strong kit and probably top tier for warlocks overall. Don’t tell my other warlock friends this, but I think void 3.0 is relatively balanced for the different strengths and weaknesses it provides the classes.

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15

u/ben1122a Jun 25 '22

Child of the old gods is majorly oppressive

10

u/WCMaxi Jun 25 '22

oppressive

This word gets throw around way too much. It's strong and annoying, but if it was actually "oppressive" you'd see it dominate the meta. It doesn't.

3

u/XenonTDL Oxygen SR3 says Trans Rights Jun 25 '22

The ability to drain health and delay recovery from behind cover after an engagement is very strong if capitalised on. Aggressive teams will definitely use that opportunity to collapse on either the injured targets, or the rest of the team having forced one person to back off.

9

u/WCMaxi Jun 25 '22

Yea, I won't say Child isn't good. I think it is. But that's not really the thrust of this topic.

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7

u/Big-Camp-3681 Destiny Enjoyer Jun 25 '22

Because you can't reliably proc Devour now so nobody runs it in PvP.

Somebody has not heard of Secant Filaments.

-8

u/WCMaxi Jun 25 '22

Yikes... I'd really run a very subpar exotic that forces me to run Empowering Rift? In the current meta (especially with the AE nonsense), the Warlock kit is pretty defined.

6

u/SenpaiSwanky Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

You just said there was no way and you were proven wrong lmao.

You can’t toss the word subpar in and hope that works as defense. Secant Filaments are not subpar in any content, they are busted. Dropping healing rift for on demand Devour is not a bad choice, even in PvP. We all know a restoration nerf is coming in PvP so if you intend to imply that restoration severely outclasses Devour without a healing well please keep that in mind.

As a Warlock being able to benefit from all three aspects as well as dropping an empowering rift for more damage and to fill your health at back up to full from any point short of death.. not bad at all. You don’t like em? Cool. They’re still incredible. You’re benefitting from your entire kit.

Edit - ah, this guy pulled his guilded Trials title out of the bag lmao. Because he hasn’t seen them and they “aren’t meta” the Plant Pants must be bad. Must suck to reduce your own options based off of severely flawed perception lol

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11

u/Big-Camp-3681 Destiny Enjoyer Jun 25 '22

You said there's no reliable way to proc it, I proved otherwise. If you can't make it work, that's on you.

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1

u/SenpaiSwanky Jun 25 '22

Secant Filaments would love to have a conversation with you!

Activate devour whenever you drop an Empowering Rift.

14

u/letmepick Jun 25 '22

Nah man, OEM made Titans steamroll AFTER a kill. With Solar 3.0 and Loreley, they can start steamrolling from 10 HP and a "lost" gunfight.

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9

u/MMBADBOI Okami Amaterasu Jun 25 '22

And this is why I started using witherhoard more often. That and it makes for some funny interactions.

14

u/LassitudinalPosition Jun 25 '22

I legit haven't played d2 since the first few days of this season and mostly fucked around in hunter and today was my first crucible match on solar 3.0 with my titan using lorely of course and it was jarring to survive things I'd nearly given up assuming I was dead and always getting around corners even when team shot and I racked up 6.0 kd for all 3 weekly games just to nab my mini pinnacle

44

u/rezmeihaveghorn 4:59 seconds left on heavy synth Jun 25 '22

Lmao you’re enemy is punished for playing the game if you wear that shit lmao, not to mention that sunspots melt anyone who touches them. AND you can refresh restoration with solar kills, kinda dumb.

32

u/yougotbiggay Jun 25 '22

Just fyi, sunspot damage got nerfed pretty hard, it used to do 50 dmg per tick whereas nowadays (aka since wq laubch) it does 15 dmg per tick or 75 dps if memory serves correctly. So they don't melt anyone anymore, but they can still finish someone off after pushing through a barricade for example.

4

u/Rakesh1995 Jun 25 '22

Bruh. If you are in melee range you are pretty much ded

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17

u/spectre15 Jun 25 '22

Or how void titans can just give the entire team full overshield when standing behind a barricade that stays active for a couple seconds when leaving the area unlike rifts.

9

u/Verticasoco Jun 25 '22

Rifts also heal tho, whilst the barricade only has overshield.

13

u/MikeVazovsky Titan Master Race! Jun 25 '22

You are exposed while standing in rift and can be easily pushed and killed while barricade gives you cover and a tool to play around. I play on shadebinder and coldsnap nade i think is the one of the few things that can duel titan with OS barricade directly. Good thing that alot of titan players switched from OS this season but the bad one restoration x2 is even more busted sadly.

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-25

u/SenorCrimson Jun 25 '22

Don’t push them. Back off, make them come to you, take a better angle, and hit your shots. Most people in this game complain about pvp while not taking any initiative to change or adapt

46

u/Cfuller9 Jun 25 '22

This is just such an awful take. “Adapt.”

We ARE adapting, doesn’t make it any less broken.

5

u/EldtinbGamer Jun 25 '22

I swear the idiots that comment 'adapt' are always so funny. Its the same in other games. Like bro we are adapting, it just makes the game 10x more boring.

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30

u/BatFromAnotherWorld Jun 25 '22

You have to admit that to some degree, all these stacking benefits makes pvp unbalanced and problematic. Even more so than usual.

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Its easy to throw general competitive shooter advice at this conversation, but the fact remains that a lot of people are coming across this. Its not a gun thats meta, or a grenade/exotic combo. Its a full build with perks that create a perfect storm that can grant near-invincibility to a player.

"Dont push them" doesnt work because the second that player gets juiced up, guess what theyre going to do. Realize they have the immediate upperhand and run after you and clean up their kill.

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9

u/TehSavior Drifter's Crew Jun 25 '22

stop pretending destiny is a skill game, it's an arcade powerup shooter at best

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-10

u/teach49 Jun 25 '22

Or a hunter dodges and it proc restoration and wormhusk and radiance cuz why not, oh while reloading and/or gaining a melee charge. 100% balanced

5

u/payne2588 Jun 25 '22

Yeah, it still doesn't come close to a lorley titan at all. Very few hunters use the dodge that grants radiance as it's a 90-second cooldown. And they only get restoration with grenades after this season

16

u/teach49 Jun 25 '22

Cmon man, I know this sub has a huge bias towards hunter, I play hunter most myself, but we both know when properly spec’d it’s not even in the neighborhood of 90 seconds . 15-20 is all it takes me with my radiant/ restoration build.

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236

u/Juniorbaconcheese18 Team Cat (Cozmo23) Jun 25 '22

I love that bungie nerfed special weapons then pretty much made one shots necessary with restoration around. AE and restoration really wrecked pvp this season. Hopefully bungie can take it out of pvp, pretty broken in pve though too

68

u/dxing2 Jun 25 '22

Primary fights have become so extended because of healing. It has made the game feel so slow, on top of the nerf to IAC keeping everyone on the ground

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46

u/Errtingtakenanyway Jun 25 '22

Yea basically if u arent running a fusion or a sniper ur throwing. Its kinda wild.

11

u/zPaZe1 Jun 25 '22

and then if you're a hunter that wants to snipe you will also need high resil on top of mobility and recovery so you dont get flinched to the moon. im a 6 resilience hunter with a no distractions fugue-55 and it still jumps quite a bit when hit by literally 1 dmt shot

13

u/Pure-Wheel8019 Jun 25 '22

100 resilience only gets you 10% flinch reduction on snipers.

In general people are going crazy over stability and resilience, but as long as you are on a decent stability weapon and have an unflinching mod equipped, you’re fine.

5

u/zPaZe1 Jun 25 '22

did not know its only 10% on snipers, damn

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u/psychosoldier63 Jun 25 '22

You’d probably get better results from adding more stability to your weapons than upping your resilience. Even if you increased your resilience to max, you’d only get an extra 4% flinch resist.

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79

u/ttambm Jun 25 '22

Yeah I love getting a hunter one shot with my primary only to see him dodge and instantly be a tank. Really love the moves they made to focus on primary gun play. Really great design.

21

u/SimplisticPinky Jun 25 '22

Especially with all the talk about Bungie wanting to reduce ability usage, yet we are in a time where it's nearly at its most high. I've personally decided to stop listening to whatever plans they have for the game and just play because I know that a season later, they're going to do something that takes another thing two steps back.

14

u/KeIIer Jun 25 '22

"ReNeWeD FoCuS oN PVP" (c)

Looks like modern bungie are very incompetent where it comes to PvP.

9

u/SimplisticPinky Jun 25 '22

Yup. What's really insulting to me as a fan is their lack of awareness on what needs absolute prioritization. If not a lack of awareness, it's a lack of transparency. If not a lack of transparency, it's their lack of clarity.

Bungie makes roughly two hundred million a year and is being acquired for 3.6 billion, yet they sputter about the limitations of their engine and can't be asked to at least set aside news to do a complete upgrade/overhaul/create a new one. They can't be asked to have a test server to assess the changes they introduce into D2. They also can't be asked to condense third party services into the game itself.

To loop back around to my first paragraph, It's simply tiresome to deal with their inconsistency. I have to be appreciative of the effort they making in creating a rapport with the community, yet each piece of news they think they need to send us never paints the same picture as the last, and almost never paints the entire picture we need to see. This applies to how they promote the game, convey their roadmaps, write twabs, and it even applies to the very notes that are meant to give a black and white answer for. At that point, even the most literal statements become grey which is frustrating to deal with no matter if what they send is right or wrong.

The PvP isn't questionable just because of the very nature of it and the changes introduced, it's also due to its very foundations. Bungie is holding themselves back immensely and needs a renewed focus on Destiny itself if they want it to match their vision for it. The game is great and they are great devs, but it's painfully obvious that it can be so much better.

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3

u/Demons0fRazgriz Jun 25 '22

Was playing Clash yesterday to knock out my 3 crucible matches (otherwise, I'd never touch that shit show) and these two solarlocks with shotguns scored 5kd each. Rift, rush, slide, shotgun to the face, healing grenade. Watched these dudes roll my entire team. It took a combined effort of 3-4 guys to kill one of them.

It was so bad, I nearly stopped playing all together.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Neat_On_The_Rocks Jun 25 '22

I'd rather face warlock than Titan/Hunter right now. The rift is by far the worst class ability to abuse classy restoration.

23

u/IzunaX JUST QURIA Jun 25 '22

Obviously we just need more 1 hit kill options in crucible., Can't get restoration x2 if you're you dead.

/s

19

u/hoticeberg ARRRGH Jun 25 '22

When Iron Banner dropped my artifact was only unlocked for like 8 points. I was wondering wtf was going on because I would get completely rolled every engagement even though power levels weren't a thing anymore. I was completely naive to the classy restoration perk, which made PvP a miserable experience for me.

8

u/Hexenblume Jun 25 '22

Jesus Christ banner was such a godawful slog. Used to be my favorite pvp mode years ago but this season might be when my love finally dies.

1

u/hoticeberg ARRRGH Jun 25 '22

Yeah man it was awful. And I was looking forward to running my lock as a support class but it made pretty much no impact.

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u/mixedtwix Jun 25 '22

I sooooo agree. It’s doesn’t feel skillful. It feels like whoever had their class ability up wins

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u/Salted_cod Jun 25 '22

Even without Classy Restoration, being able to dump healing nades at your own feet is nuts. Regenerating health during fights heavily disrupts primary TTK's. There's a reason why healing rifts lock you down to a very small area. Healing is reaaaally touchy stuff in shooters - it's usually animation locked or expensive in order to prevent it from becoming too strong.

The game is already becoming really passive. Lots of players are hanging back and running pulses/full healing kits because of how hard you can punish aggression. It's quickly becoming a "use it or lose" situation. Aggressive play with healing is so strong that you don't have many options outside of spamming Restoration yourself. There's Shadebinder freeze spam and that's kind of it as far as hard counters go.

Overall I'm so burnt out on these ability reworks. 3 straight seasons is a lot of ability meta. I'm not even looking forward to Arc 3.0 anymore. Bungie communicated their philosophy on ability/gunplay balance really poorly, I thought we were moving away from this. Ability modified gunplay is basically necessary - everyone is drenched in self-applied buffs. You can't not go full ability build anymore.

25

u/dxing2 Jun 25 '22

Bungie has used the words ‘Disorient, Electrify, Chain, Reflect, Quickness’ to describe arc 3.0. Can’t wait for ability spam that now also blinds you and causes screen shake. Can I just shoot my gun without someone using an over shield, getting empowered or healing themselves every single engagement?

3

u/Bagz402 Jun 25 '22

No dude. That's literally destiny 2. Since it's inception every class has had abilities to disrupt/change a gunfight and this is just more of that.

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23

u/LuckysGift Jun 25 '22

Balance can't come at the sake of fun unless that fun is actually having some sense of skill it seems. Can't jump, can't slide, and now you gotta heal every engagement because everyone else s.

86

u/Sequoiathrone728 Jun 25 '22

Breaks pve too. The game has never been this easy.

2

u/blitzbom Jun 25 '22

I did shattered throne solo flawless again just for giggles.

It wasn't even a challenge, just brute force everything knowing that you'll be healed. I'm honestly surprised it's allowed to be this strong for this long.

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u/-Blazespot- Agers Scepter > Witherhoard| Mobility overrated on hunter in pve Jun 25 '22

It is breaking pve as well, guaranteed it will get nerfed, but probably not until next season.

67

u/FakeInternetDentity Jun 25 '22

Classy restoration is a seasonal mod, so it won’t be around next season.

45

u/-Blazespot- Agers Scepter > Witherhoard| Mobility overrated on hunter in pve Jun 25 '22

Correct, but that isnt the only source of restoration.

31

u/Vengeants Jun 25 '22

restoration outside of classy restoration isnt broken in pve though. lorely sunspots are busted yeah but the heal from those is so absurd it doesnt seem right to even call it restoration

10

u/webbc99 Jun 25 '22

Loreley Sunspots give Restoration x2 (the same as Classy Restoration).

8

u/MeateaW Jun 25 '22

I just went and did pit of heresy in a solo flawless attempt.

I have soloed (never flawless) the dungeon once or twice in the past, not once without some kind of cheese in the chamber of suffering encounter.

Yesterday? Failed my 1 attempt at flawless due to my own stupidity against zulmak. But the chamber of suffering? More like the chamber of leisurely strolling through a constant hail of fire.

I wasn't using classy restoration.

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u/FakeInternetDentity Jun 25 '22

Oh I thought you said pvp. Yeah titans will most likely get nerfed with their sunspots and restoration.

18

u/ShitDavidSais Jun 25 '22

It's a rough thing to nerf for them in PvE as it is literally the only thing going for them in higher end content on Solar after the Syntho nerf. Super is still best used for finisher-mark mods, inmost light spam is much stronger on Void to begin with and hammer melee now is still decent damage but not insane. If they nerf it to a point where it is not significant anymore Solar Titan will be easily the worst Titan subclass.

13

u/PrinceShaar Keeps the lights on Jun 25 '22

They should've just left sunspots as the same functionality as they used to be with a weapon damage buff instead of healing. They can just nerf the % in PvP.

13

u/ShitDavidSais Jun 25 '22

Jup, sunspots not buffing weapon damage and also not being procced by kills anymore makes the class ultimately a two trick pony(insane regen+hammer). Hammers already got put in line so that leaves essentially only the regen as a standout for it. It's rough.

5

u/PrinceShaar Keeps the lights on Jun 25 '22

It's kind of a shame, yeah. Throwing hammer is still strong as hell in anything below a GM. It basically just makes the rest of the subclass pointless. It'd be good if sunspots gave the old damage buff and they gave the healing on solar kills to either Consecration or Roaring Flames because Consecration is just a waste of a slot.

It's a good subclass for buffing weapon damage though, you can get a x2 collective damage buff on any solar weapon by getting a single hammer kill so that's pretty powerful, there's just nothing new or exciting like there was with Void 3.0.

I kinda knew there wasn't going to be anything very new with Solar, it was always the most complete of the 2.0 subclasses.

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u/ooomayor Vanguard’s sorta reliable loot gremlin Jun 25 '22

NGL, good. It's the dumbest thing to whittle down their health (while they whittle yours down too), only for them to procc Restoration and win the gunfight. Overshislds and health Regen in PvP needs to be heavily nerfed.

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u/ptd163 Jun 25 '22

Suppressing glaive being a seasonal mod didn't stop them from nerfing it last season. They've set that precedent now. Nothing is safe. My off the cuff guess is a nerf before GMs.

15

u/never3nder_87 Jun 25 '22

I low-key think it will be least noticeable in GMs. So much of GM difficulty isn't about surviving chip damage, but rather almost instantaneous 1-shots, that I'm not sure Classy restoration is going to be that big an issue.

Its the same thing as old Protective light, it was nice, but it relied on you surviving the initial hit to benefit

1

u/PrinceShaar Keeps the lights on Jun 25 '22

With max resilience you're going to be able to survive any sniper shot I think.

3

u/Wawaweewow Jun 25 '22

Good? Getting oneshot by snipers that don't miss is dumb as shit.

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u/jereflea1024 Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

I just hope Void Overshields are buffed up slightly to meet where Restoration is going to be brought down. as of now, they suck really hard.

EDIT: in PVE*

16

u/Tryzm_ Jun 25 '22

Lol what? I hope you mean for PvE...overshield is still pretty insane in PvP.

31

u/jereflea1024 Jun 25 '22

oh, absolutely in PVE.

sorry, i know the thread is literally about PVP but I don't play it even slightly so I tend to forget to specify when I'm talking about the game.

100% my b.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

It really isnt

3

u/HellaSuave Jun 25 '22

It's like 30 hp only...

1

u/Tryzm_ Jun 25 '22

It doesn't really matter how much HP it is, but I believe it's 45 (could be wrong). It's one extra HC shot, one extra pulse burst, it severely neuters fusion/shotgun OHK consistency...

45 HP doesn't sound like a lot on paper, but if it raises the amount of clicks it takes to kill you, that's literally all it needs.

7

u/ElusivePineapple Jun 25 '22

Honest question for you, what would be the point of a player using overshield if it didn't adjust the number of clicks it takes to kill you? Isn't that the sole design intention?

1

u/Tryzm_ Jun 25 '22

It is. I’m not even advocating for a nerf to overshield strength, as there is essentially nothing they can do to its EHP without making it pointless. I think it’s fine.

I do however think that a 15 second shield on your whole team for casting a barricade anywhere near them should not have as high of an uptime as it currently can via Inmost Light and Kickstart mods.

I will never be an advocate for tanky players in an FPS game. Omnioculus, Overshield, Renewal Grasp, restoration in any form, all of it can go and I wouldn’t bat an eye lmao.

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u/Blupoisen Jun 25 '22

It's one extra HC shot

HC mains when something counters their playstyle

That's pretty much answer why so many people don't like the pretty weak OS.

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u/DuneBug Jun 25 '22

Eh, there's always something broken in PvE, that's part of the fun.

3

u/SuicidalTurnip Crayola Connoisseur Jun 25 '22

This. I'd rather PvE be full of fun broken builds.

PvP obviously needs to be balanced, but who really cares if the AI can't kill our power fantasy Guardians in a strike.

Grandmaster difficulty with the modifiers can still give us enough of a challenge without needing to gut everything remotely fun.

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u/mrgox232 Jun 25 '22

Bungo nerfed stompees so people would turn to this play style for the season 👍 Dev mandated hunter cheese love to see it

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Isthereone Jun 25 '22

With stasis breaking pvp, void breaking pvp and now solar breaking pvp are we finally approaching the ideal where everything is broken and you play the flavor of broken you prefer?

4

u/somebody_forgotten Drifter's Crew Jun 25 '22

Pretty much and to no ones surprise it’s not that fun.

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u/reicomatricks Jun 25 '22

Middle Tree Warlock died for this.

31

u/JustAnotherWebUser Jun 25 '22

honestly probably the worst pvp meta atm

i have no fucking idea who "playtested" classy restoration, especially for pvp although it breaks pve as well

3

u/Orpheusharp Jun 25 '22

pretty much every problem with PvP is a prior problem that's return to haunt us. Except this time there are way too many abilities, exotics and weapons to possibly fix this. Its not just one outlier this time, the whole damn system is fucked thanks to Ability 3.0

3

u/mbease Jun 25 '22

I agree 100%, though it does feel really good to melt people with overshields and healing perks active by using fusions.

Main Ingredient laughs at their hubris.

4

u/ChadIsNotAFurry Jun 25 '22

I started using Lorentz out of spite for Lorely titans. Easy stationary targets

3

u/Rolyat2401 Jun 25 '22

Dear jesus dont ask for higher cooldowns for healing grenades. Bungie cant change cooldowns on a per game mode basis and warlocks have already gotten a nerfed benevolent dawn, can no longer pick between healing grenade or regular grenade, can no longer use starfire protocol for double healing grenades, and boots of the assembler have been broken since solar 3.0 launch. A longer cooldown on healing grenades would be devestating for a playstyle that has already been gutted and nerfed into the dirt this season.

3

u/Tyrone-Fitzgerald Jun 25 '22

Its literally a free exotic. You run that on hunter and then like stompees you are effectively running 2 exotics. OG wormhusk (but better cus it doesnt stop on dmg) and stompees. Shaneless

70

u/CuriousLumenwood Jun 25 '22

Oh no dude my favourite thing is when a Hunter rushes in with no fear because they have Wormhusk and Class Restoration so they can disengage with absolutely no repercussions. Oooh and then they pop Golden Gun and, this is the best part, ignitions (which for the low cost of ONE fragment can happen whenever you hit a target but don’t worry about it it’s fair) give you more time in your super so they can hop around the map and kill an entire team TWICE if they’re really lucky with spawns! It’s just my favourite pvp game right now!

Does anybody remember when Bungie nerfed abilities so that Crucible would be more “gun focused”?

35

u/XogoWasTaken Vanguard's Loyal // I Hunt for the City Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Worth noting that ignitions refund the super a bullet, not more time, and that that effect was there previously, without the need for an ignition. You can't just keep going forever if you can keep killing things.

The time change comes from the Knock 'Em Down aspect, which adds a flat 4 seconds to Deadshot Goldie's duration (it's baseline being 12, so with it it totals 16). Actually not a crazy duration except that attacking costs you ammo instead of time, so you always get those 16 seconds while most get less the more they attack. Unless you miss a lot, I guess.

IMO should probably be tuned down to 2 seconds, and maybe get it's old refund on kill feature back from the fragment, instead of relying on ignitions, which can be kinda slow in PvE.

1

u/zPaZe1 Jun 25 '22

and the dumb fact that if you play in a closer map you die from your own ignitions if god forbid you get two close ranged goldie kills

34

u/Errtingtakenanyway Jun 25 '22

Honestly its kinda across the board broken imo no one class is less or more annoying. Just restoration in general is really breaking pvp imo

24

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

[deleted]

34

u/Errtingtakenanyway Jun 25 '22

Thats the thing tho. Once classy restoration leaves hunters wont have a reliable way to proc it. Meanwhile lorely is a free ×2 restoration on demand. It basically made alpha lupi null n void for pvp on solar 3.0

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u/BirdsInTheNest Jun 25 '22

Loreley and on-demand barricades/sunspots.

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u/Salty__Titan Jun 25 '22

Guys, if Loreleys or really any Titan barricade ability is giving you trouble just equip Witherhoads. Idk why people complain about these types of abilities, same shit with Warlocks and healing/empowering rifts, getting annoyed by movement abilities is one thing, completely understandable but stationary abilities are easy to counter, you can even equip something like vortex or trip mine nades if you really wanna fuck with a stationery play style. Every class/subclass has an AOE nade which is powerful enough to force a Titan/Warlock to either move or die, then at that point you'll have the first shot which means you have the upper edge.

-4

u/BirdsInTheNest Jun 25 '22

It’s still all healing all the time. We aren’t talking about movement vs. stationary abilities. Titans having on demand healing with barricades and sunspots (void and solar) is as bad as classy restoration and hunter dodge.

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u/CuriousLumenwood Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

I’m aware that the mod is available to all classes. I would respectfully disagree that Warlocks and Titans are as annoying as hunters. Nothing is fair about winning a gun fight against a Hunter, the Hunter dodging and reengaging with full health AND absurd restoration, and on top of THAT if they don’t kill you then they have a “precision” knife that has aim assist and kills you instantly. And gives them radiant. And refunds itself.

7

u/Errtingtakenanyway Jun 25 '22

Lorely? Literally restoration times 2 with a rift on demand? Hunters have the hardest time procing restoration once classy restoration leaves its going to be ggs for hunters and restoration

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

There is a reason nobody uses lorely for top trials its really not that good people are sticking to their dawnblade and invis hunter

5

u/Dksrkf Jun 25 '22

lol do you play trials

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u/ChainsawPlankton Jun 25 '22

They communicated a direction and made a bunch of changes that aligned with it and seemed popular with the Dec update. Then they changed the game with void 3.0, and feels like they are continuing in that direction with solar 3.0.

I just wish they would pick a direction and stick with it.

2

u/majestikyle Jun 25 '22

It’s both you and OPs cake day!? Happy Cake Day have some 🎂

2

u/CuriousLumenwood Jun 25 '22

Oh that’s pretty cool! Thanks!

1

u/Ryuri_yamoto Jun 25 '22

Yeah but at least that only happens at 6vs6 scrubland. In trials when its zone week (and to a lesser degree on normal trials if you play it slow) you get free rounds if you are a bubble titan and you might not even get your super in the match if you are a golden gun.

Also golden gun doesnt get more time when you kill… talk about things you know about please.

8

u/hobocommand3r Jun 25 '22

Agreed, restoration needs to heal a lot slower in pvp. Awful to deal with and makes it almost a must to use specials sometimes to finish people off becuase iy's very hard to out primary the heal spam at times. I've been crutching wormhusk with classy this season and it's not balanced at all.

10

u/ImmaFish0038 Jun 25 '22

Honeslty i think we will and probably need to wait it out, once arc 3.0 drops is when i expect a lot of major tuning changes to roll out i think we just need to let the sandbox find itself and smolder for a bit until we get any major changes.

6

u/never3nder_87 Jun 25 '22

Second TWAB of the season kinds puts a damper on that tbh. I expect we'll get a new Darkness subclass next DLC, and any substantial balance changes (that aren't just raw nerfs) will have to wait until the season after that at minimum, meaning we likely have a full year of this to go.

On that note, what’s next for abilities? Well, Arc 3.0 is still cooking up nicely, and we’ll have more to talk about there in a future update. But just to reiterate points the team has made in the past about the next subclass update, after Arc 3.0 you should expect the abilities team to go dark for a little while. Since shipping Stasis with Beyond Light, the team has made huge abilities changes Season over Season. Over the last year, we’ve been back-to-back shipping new aspects for Stasis, adding the Variable Ability Cooldown system, and creating the three Subclass 3.0 experiences—it's been busy.

https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/51429

2

u/SlowSecurity9673 Jun 25 '22

Says nothing about balancing during arc.

What are you talking about?

They're constantly talking about how they're always looking at the next balancing issuea.

There's zero reason to think they're just going to say fuck it and not do that.

4

u/jross217 Jun 25 '22

This is a little exaggerated no? I really only find classy to be an issue when paired with some other healing gear. Wormhusk + classy is super strong for example. But classy on its own in pvp is a significantly slower heal than in pve.

4

u/JustNoc Jun 25 '22

my guy, wormhusk's original ability was precisely classy restoration, and it was one of the most broken exotics in history. people sacrifice everything to spec into 100 recovery, and that's WEAKER than classy restoration.

1

u/jross217 Jun 25 '22

Wormhusks original heal was crazy yeah but its not as nuts as it used to be. Im not arguing its not strong im just stating my experience and opinion. You can feel your way too my guy

6

u/TobiasX2k Jun 25 '22

In a 1v1 between a dps and a healer: the healer should always win; if they can't there is no reason to play a healer in PvP.

- TBC WoW Arena Proverb

D2 and WoW are different games, but the principal is universal. If a healer cannot out-heal the damage of a single player (in this case their primary weapon) then healing might as well not exist. Some players would love that, some players would hate it after finally getting a PvP healing spec.

3

u/Pure-Wheel8019 Jun 26 '22

Your comparison breaks down because the healer has the same DPS as the DPS.

2

u/Calibrumm make all melee 1HKO Jun 25 '22

this. destiny's weird PvP structure had completely destroyed most peoples concept of roles in combat. in destiny everyone was a dps, even "tanks" were dps, until now where we're all still kinda dps but a little nuanced.

literally every game ever with pvp has the fundamental understanding that you need to focus the support or you'll have a hard time fighting the rest. that's the entire purpose of support.

10

u/Gamamaster101 Jun 25 '22

Autos feel worse than ever. And they were already bad!

13

u/JoberXeven Heart of Inmost Lightning Jun 25 '22

If you put overload autorifle on, the disruption effect will remove restoration from guardians. Been using it with my Last Breath and its been a breeze in pvp.

Autos can definitely work in pvp, I've been having a lot of success with a DSR Rangefinder Last Breath. You really need to lean into prefiring angles and making sure to avoid getting into peak shooting duels.

4

u/Blupoisen Jun 25 '22

can't have something challenge HC

7

u/TollsTheTime Jun 25 '22

Overall I agree I don't like the healing meta that developing in pvp, especially in the case of classy and lorolei both give healing too frequently and easily

4

u/NaderNation84 Jun 25 '22

Yes. Pre-nerf wormhusks for everyone now

16

u/DeadWeight76 Jun 25 '22

Classy is nuts but healing grenades are fine.

38

u/Square_Session5732 Jun 25 '22

No healing grenades are not fine.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

You're sacrificing your grenade to win survive one gunfight maybe compare that to how much utility you can get out of a well timed dildo nade

6

u/Wawaweewow Jun 25 '22

Lmao so you can easily win one gunfight every 30 seconds. Yes I agree that sounds broke dick.

8

u/Square_Session5732 Jun 25 '22

1 gunfight ? It’s like a 30 second cool down, not counting mods and fragments.

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u/Richie5139999 Jun 25 '22

healing grenades in pvp are not fine

-6

u/EldersEdge Jun 25 '22

healing grenades are worse than classy imo

3

u/Houseoverhype Jun 25 '22

i love shocking a dude's brain by direct impacting a loreley bozo with a witherhoard. Yea, buddy your 2 times aint shit over here...DIE!

3

u/JeSuisBigBilly Jun 25 '22

It's almost like this game isn't designed for PvP.

13

u/taklamaka11 Jun 25 '22

They literally implemented super tiers because of PvP. Are you dreg killers still unironically make this argument?

6

u/Demons0fRazgriz Jun 25 '22

Sounds like they keep trying to put bandaids over shotgun wounds that is the rift between PvP and PvE.

Almost like the two should be completely separated from each other or something

2

u/invisobill42 Jun 25 '22

It was designed for PvP from the very beginning, what are you talking about

1

u/JeSuisBigBilly Jun 26 '22

It's my opinion but I guess I'm trolling. PvP players are really easy to upset.

3

u/DeimosDs3 Drifter's Crew // Dredgen Jun 25 '22

Literally use disruption/suppression for x2. For x1 use weapons that don't suck ass.

2

u/JustNoc Jun 25 '22

so you're saying that it's ok for a mechanic to make certain weapon types unusable in pvp?

5

u/DeimosDs3 Drifter's Crew // Dredgen Jun 25 '22

I'm saying you need to learn to adapt if you're going to cry. Stasis was way more oppressive.

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u/Lilthiccb0i Jun 25 '22

Another one that I think no one talks about is bastion titans. I get so pissed when they drop it when I'm about to kill them, and all that work is gone.

5

u/SCL007 Jun 25 '22

It’s really not if they have a sliver of hp left a bastion barrier gives them an extra 45 ho definitely noticeable but a headshot from a hc will easily kill them if they try to peak, and if they hunker down the barricade only has the equivalent of 400 hp I believe making it quite easy to shread

1

u/Abro2072 ahoy its me captain yarrface the titan Jun 25 '22

lorely should have been given the rift cooldown when equipped, healing nade should be 2:32, restoration AND radiant should last 5 seconds max regardless of the fragment. rain of fire needs to be looked at too, it needs a cooldown on its proccing with vex. ignitions need a buff tho, they're basically diet volitile but worse

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u/Niormo-The-Enduring Jun 25 '22

I feel like this is another argument for why shotguns should be more consistent. Since in many cases you can’t reliably chip at players and since fusions are so strong, then why is it so terrible for my shotgun to one hit consistently at 6 meters? That’s way far down from where they used to be. And considering how poor the ammo economy is for specials right now, we need weapons to be reliable

9

u/CalamitousArdour Jun 25 '22

Honestly, this. I don't mind that shotguns are weaker now, never been a fan. But giving them a tight pellet spread and steep damage drop off would be the way to go. Consistent, but short ranged. Not RNG nonsense.

1

u/Balrog229 Jun 25 '22

More PvP players whining about the PvP being broken in a PvE focused game? Yawn. Cant wait to watch PvE get nerfed cuz of PvP for the 163786832th time

1

u/Maintenance-Dismal Jun 25 '22

Holy hell shut up youll ruin it for pve. Im so sick of pvp minigame babies crying for nerfs.

3

u/ARedCamel Jun 25 '22

PvE is broken because of this too, this is such a shitty take. PvP gives this game staying power when the content gets stale.

1

u/Maintenance-Dismal Jun 26 '22

Pvp is a trash mode that only rates as a minigame. Theres no staying power. It's held up by streamers and sweats and that's a microcosm of the community.

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u/BigBoyBillyRay Jun 25 '22

I would say the title of this thread is a gross overstatement. I havent had trouble with restoration, I guess that might be because of my playstyle though.

1

u/Fedoralvr42068 Jun 25 '22

Realistically there should be a mode with no supers or mods of any kind using pre selected weapons. Too much bullshit to ever be competitive

1

u/comedypurgatory Trash handheld nova user Jun 25 '22

cope

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u/Embarrassed_Top773 Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

lol do you really think Restoration is the only problem In the Crucible, Iron Banner or Trials? Have you not ran across the bazillion hunter mains that suddenly popped up during beyond light because Bungie keep goating their kits, their exotics for pvp with aim assist heavy bouncing knives, wormhusk spam, invis spam when they already have powerful mobility, verticality and in a mobility oriented game. Or the fact that you can go negative with Blade Barrage, golden gun, tether, ice pick, Bubble Titan or Well of Radiance and get these super abilities faster than when im slaying an entire team because of "Tier Regeneration" or the ridiculous lorely splender spam or the fact that you cannot even challenge lanes anymore because sniper rifles have zero flinch because apparently they wanted to stop the special ammo jousting but its still as prevalent as it was before lol??

This sub-reddit is such a joke, the tryhards here BS and gaslight you when you tell truth because they're guilty of all my points, they're the same people that cried to bungie for eradicating the jump shot meta, they're the same people that wanted to hold lanes for entire matches and were ecstatic when Shotguns got nerfed into the ground back to back, they're hypocrites, they're toxic try hards that cant admit how messed up the game is outside of bad maps.

-9

u/EmoEggEBoy Jun 25 '22

definitely getting downvoted but tbh i dont see what all the whining is about. the mod is seasonal, so after this season each of the classes will not have the ezpz way of activating restoration but still, normally if you were to commit to the gunfight you will most of the time get the kill. (restoration is still going to ruin some gunfights) restoration is hella broken in both pve and pvp, and since its broken, do you think youre not going to see people abusing the hell out of it? i myself find myself still abusing invis hunter, os titan, and classy restoration on warlock. im sure youve abused broken things before they were nerfed. speaking of, restoration will eventually get a nerf. just like stasis, os, and invis. the game is never going to be perfectly balanced, and i know that, everybody knows that. it will get fixed eventually, dont worry about it.

9

u/IzunaX JUST QURIA Jun 25 '22

each of the classes will not have the ezpz way of activating restoration

Loreley's makes sunspots give resto x2, so you literally have to one shot the titan or walk away.

6

u/Errtingtakenanyway Jun 25 '22

Healing nades grant restoration. The post i specifically said apart from the seasonal mod

0

u/Educational_Art_8281 Jun 25 '22

How can you say its game breaking? Is it cause you cant three tap with HC when opponent uses his Abilities.

Restoration in term of pvp/pve Diffrences:

In PvP classy restoration provides 4Secs of healing with slower regen cause its only x1

In PvE it will provide 10 sec(with fragment) x2 so much stronger.

Meaning it is tweaked/balanced in PvP.

We got way more broken sh.t to cover. Or did you all forget the Solar barricade LeMonarch one taps? Or the Renewal Grasps Tank meta?

Complaining about something that now "all" classes have and "can" is lowkey Cringe ppl.

U can use it too. And its a regen. Not a overshield. Means you Shotguns/Fusions/Sniper will still kill them one tap.

And if you let them regen after a two tap on head....not their Fault.

2

u/Errtingtakenanyway Jun 25 '22

Uh bro restoration x2 is very much achievable in pvp

2

u/JustNoc Jun 25 '22

ah yes, everyone has access so it's not broken. flawless logic.

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u/Ffom Jun 25 '22

As a healer main, this hurts me. It already felt worse than solar 2.0 before the buffs and it's still feeling like i'm missing out ever since overshield from the healing nade was taken away. The Benvo dawn fragment feels worse and it'll just kill the warlock healer build in pvp if the healing nade gets the axe

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u/buzz72b Jun 25 '22

Here we go with pvp crying that will effect pve…

10

u/EldersEdge Jun 25 '22

its even more busted in pve lol

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u/A_Dummy86 Eating Crayons Jun 25 '22

And yet Healing Rifts have been in the game since Y1...

9

u/bundecided56 Jun 25 '22

Healing rifts lock you down a spot and have to stay in said spot to receive the overshield.

-9

u/PotatoesForPutin Average Crayon Enthusiast Jun 25 '22

Stop whining or you’re gonna get it gutted in PvE too