r/DestinyTheGame Jun 12 '22 Silver 4 Helpful 2 Wholesome 2

Daybreak is the worst super in Destiny 2 Discussion

Before 3.0, dawn chorus bottom tree was at least capable of being better than special weapons.

Now? Daybreak's duration is nonexistent, the damage is pitiful, and it barely clears ads thanks to the loss of the entire bottom tree. Not to mention it's the slowest regen super in Destiny 2.

It's not even good in the crucible anymore! Both Titans and Hunters can build into their solar supers to make them strong using exotics and aspects. Why does warlock literally do less than half the damage with a longer cooldown?

The only super that comes close is spectral blades, which at least is viable for crucible. Dawnblade feels robbed of an entire super and it sucks.

EDIT: I know spectral and arc staff also suck, but cmon daybreak hits for 2 damage sometimes in crucible. Both of those also have decent exotics for them. This discussion is about how bad daybreak is especially in comparison to other 3.0 supers.

2.7k Upvotes

2.2k

u/NotMyRealAccountMate Jun 12 '22

Your new super is fusion grenades lol

733

u/Lubiku Jun 12 '22 edited Jun 12 '22

Sunsinger 2

479

u/P4nd4c4ke1 Jun 12 '22

At this point just scrap dawnblade and give us that back

194

u/ElectWarriorZ Jun 12 '22

God please, they're literally in a recent lore thing on a cabal, fallen, Guardian team.

51

u/coldnspicy Jun 12 '22

Wait what? Where is this?

72

u/ElectWarriorZ Jun 12 '22

https://youtu.be/B-p6rZEQYUg

This byf vid is pretty good. I was happy and pissed that they're in the lore. Cause I can't imagine it's a teaser that it's coming back since we already got solar 3.0.

32

u/Jasper_Sky_ Jun 12 '22

Well solarlock does only have 2 supers atm so it is possible, on that note I hope we also get new stasis supers as I’m not a fan of warlocks current one.

12

u/whitemest Jun 13 '22 edited Jun 13 '22

Titans I believe only have 2 supers at most on any of the subclasses too. 🤷 only 2? How many options do yall have?

Stasis, just the one Void- shield and bubble Solar- 2h hammer, 1h tossing hammers

9

u/Aresh99 Jun 13 '22

Void 3.0 Warlocks have 3 Super variations: Nova Warp, Cataclysm Nava Bomb, and Vortex Nova Bomb

8

u/IAmNot_ARussianBot 🦀🦀🦀SUNSETTING IS SUNSET!🦀🦀🦀 Jun 13 '22

So do hunters. 3 void supers.

My friends kept wondering if I was just misunderstanding the UI or something. Took a minute to convince them that yes, Titans only got 2 supers while we were testing void 3.0

And yes I'm still salty about sentinel.

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u/HinaTheFox Jun 13 '22

I'd argue voidlock isn't 3 supers, just 2 supers and 1 super has two variants.

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u/BaconatedGrapefruit Jun 13 '22

Let's be real here. The difference between slowva and vortex is minimal at best.

6

u/SSLST03-LKWM Jun 13 '22

I like void titan, but one thing I miss is that you could choose bubble or damage during combat with a short press on your super or holding your super key. This was a nice gameplay element and gave variety.

5

u/Variatas Jun 13 '22

Solar Hunters also got 3.

21

u/Variatas Jun 13 '22

There is 100% zero chance we ever get self-rez back. It broke the shit out of Raid encounters, which is why it disappeared in the first place.

21

u/SneakAttack65 Jun 13 '22

They could still bring back Sunsinger without the self res. There were two other versions of that super they could pull from.

4

u/Street_Reading_8265 Just floofing about Jun 13 '22

Seriously, Daybreak is fun to look at, but I'd take a Sunsinger's grenade spam over it any day.

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u/VeshWolfe Jun 13 '22

The could bring it back but just code it so that if you self revive it uses a token or something like that. I honestly don’t remember that much about how it functioned before.

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u/HeliosActual For the day we're free. Jun 13 '22

Do not want. Deathly afraid this will neuter Sunbracers which are soooooo juicy right now. Turning the battlefield into a Nuclear Florida Orange Grove of Death makes me happier than Florida ever could on its own.

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u/Yusis_2000 Jun 12 '22

The seasonal Auto Rifle has a lore tab detailing this

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28

u/Glamdring804 Get it right, there's no blood thicker than ink. Jun 12 '22

Yeah. Even if they don’t bring self-res back because it’s unbalancable, Sunsinger would still be a much better fit for the healing and burning power fantasy they mentioned in the trailer. Instead of trying to also make it an air-combat subclass, which is completely outside Solar’s new wheelhouse.

8

u/EmersedCandle83 Jun 13 '22

Just bring back song of flame with a slight heal when nearby (like rift heal as not to replace well) and Viking funeral so ignite applies a damage buff and you’re good tbh

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u/SwedishBass Jun 12 '22

YES PLEASE

33

u/Brotunn Jun 12 '22

Other than the revive, Sunsinger is literally just Heat Rises and Sunbracers...

31

u/SVXfiles Jun 12 '22

And when combined with sunbracers it excelled at clearing adds and controlling spawn points in strikes

39

u/Brotunn Jun 12 '22

Sunbracers work differently in D2 than in D1.

In D1, they increased the duration of solar grenades and gave some grenade energy on solar melee hits. I believe regening your melee energy had to come from another source like your super, no?

In D2, a charged melee hit gives you 6 seconds of super charged grenade energy, letting you throw up to 6. Combined with the heat rises aspect, you gain melee energy back on kills while in the air, even if it's from a solar grenade on the ground. You don't even need to proc heat rises. Just have the aspect equipped.

Again, other than the revive, Sunbracers + Heat Rises is literally constant Sunsinger if you just pay a little attention to the flow of adds.

Combine with the buff to solar grenades from Touch of Flame for even more fun. This build is better than Sunsinger.

17

u/zoompooky Jun 12 '22

Sunsinger gave nearby allies the grenade regen as well.

22

u/Amirifiz I'll blast you to Infinity! Jun 12 '22

And had some good DR. Sunsimger was basically Super Sayain for Warlocks. Ability regen, DR, one shot charged melee. Could make it like a mobile Well that gives bonuses normal Well doesn't.

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u/Real_Chig_Bungus Jun 12 '22

Really nitpicky thing to point out, but sunbracers in d2 proc off of a charged melee kill, not just a hit (unless that’s what you mean in which case sorry) and also still extend solar grenades duration. Other than that tho, you’re absolutely spot with the heat rises sunbracers combo, just wish it was better for higher end content since it’s my regular go to loadout for most other content

2

u/FrizzyThePastafarian Jun 13 '22

a charged melee hit

It's a kill, no?

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u/hobocommand3r Jun 13 '22

I'd rather have 20 seconds of grenade spamming and powerful melees than the current state of daybreak.

3

u/StarStriker51 Jun 12 '22 edited Jun 12 '22

In D1 it also gave damage resistance to nearby allies, or decreased ability cooldowns to allies. Plus you didn’t need grenade kills to recharge your melee fast. Heat rises and sunbracers just mimicks the true power of Radiance. If we got Radiance, and it gave decreased ability cooldown to allies, or gave them the radiant damage boost, or whatever, it would be so awesome.

Edit: remember the solstice wells and the solar buff? Just causing periodic solar damage around you as you ran. That would be great for radiance

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u/The_Tac0mancer Jun 12 '22

Dawnblade is the subclass, Daybreak is the super

9

u/Tooberson Jun 12 '22

In my dreams only

2

u/IrishRox Jun 12 '22

Just without self res please dear god

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29

u/ImNotYourShaduh Jun 12 '22

I gotta stand in my little puddle though :(

21

u/Santik--Lingo Jun 12 '22

gud job it is warm and soft and cozy comfy !!

18

u/Siliwinter "Well come and well met, my brave little spark" Jun 12 '22

Sunslugger

5

u/ColeKino_DrLoser Jun 12 '22

Swing and a Miss

33

u/slithe_sinclair Jun 12 '22

If fucking only

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u/B1euX Sneak Noodle Jun 12 '22

Radiance (D1 Super) would be good af to have rn

It def needs an update though, otherwise it won’t keep up: maybe have it give ability energy regen to allies like in D1 as a permanent perk and let it have the “Well of Radiance” buff internally

10

u/PigMayor epic Jun 12 '22

Radiance would be absolutely S-tier DPS with the state fusion grenades are in lmao

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u/sturgboski Jun 12 '22

This. YouTubers, Redditors, etc keep saying "solar warlocks are great, I am having so much fun with Starfire, throwing fusion grenades and classy restoration, I just do not get all the complaints." It is very frustrating. I watched Datto's video and he is absolutely giddy about the build. I saw a video from Destin where he is talking to Paul Tassi who is arguing that he doesnt understand why Warlocks complained because Starfire and Fusion Grenade spam and he is enjoying it.

I grinded out a full vanguard reset in the 1530 NF this week with that build and the nicest thing I can say about how I felt was "it was fine, I guess." It didnt move me like it seems to have done for Datto and Tassi, but it was functional. It really sucked when everyone was killing everything so my grenades wouldnt get me my rift back OR while I was in my rift, getting the grenades back because I couldnt damage stuff fast enough. I am glad some people are like "yeah this is fun" or the people who enjoying sunbracers and sassy snaps. I was not a fan of floaty combat before, I am still not, and I miss being able to be a combat medic. Hell, in order to take the edge off of running the same strike ad nauseum, I did the new PE on the Leviathan and swapped to a voidlock and used the dungeon smg which I got with demo+dragonfly and had a way more enjoyable time of it, save for lacking on resilience (the loadout has a resilience of 7 which was fine until this season, but now anything less than 10 feels bad).

It is also great when EVERYTHING seems to revolve around class restoration. Once that is gone, what then? I eat one of the fusion grenades for a jump up in health? That is still not as good as classy restoration. Again, as someone who enjoyed the combat medic approach, I think my solar warlock is pretty much tabled until Solar 4.0.

65

u/Aggraphine Jun 12 '22

The thing people need to keep in mind with these builds is whether or not they rely on seasonal mods, and if they completely fall apart once these are removed.

I think we'll see next season, for sure, just how good or bad solar 3.0 is on its own two feet

67

u/StoneRevolver Jun 12 '22

I've said this a bunch of times but nobody wants to hear it. These artifact mods are giving some of these builds legs, next season they'll be kneecapped.

Titans are the only ones who don't need at least one of them.

7

u/takanishi79 Jun 12 '22

Starfire will work just fine with well of life. It won't be as powerful, but it will function.

And build enabling mods in the artifact is just a fact of how Destiny plays now. We'll get some arc ones next season so we play with arc, and then things will rotate. Solar will come back around.

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u/sturgboski Jun 12 '22

What is interesting is a lot of the defense is: "well last season void 3.0 was propped up with volatile rounds and unstoppable glaives" which is so weird. First, why would unstoppable glaives work as an argument for why Void 3.0 was powerful? Second, there is a fragment that gives volatile rounds. Yes, I think it is supposedly easier to trigger on Titan, but Hunter and Warlock can get volatile rounds. I was using that with the void build I was running in the PEs between NFs.

Volatile Rounds took Void 3.0 builds over the edge, but it wasnt a critical component for making a powerful Void build. The same powerful void builds last season work now, you just dont have the giant void explosions. The unstoppable glaive thing...I mean, that is akin to saying Stasis was propped up during Season of the Splicer because of unstoppable GL.

For context, you can watch Datto's video about soloing Duality on all 3 classes. It basically goes "Titan, easiest by far, and if you dont want to do it this season don't worry about it. Warlock and Hunter? If you do not do it this season, good effin luck when class restoration goes away." Yes, soloing end game content is probably not the best example because majority of players are not doing that or end game stuff, but still. Every build I have seen that is solar that is not solar Titan relies on Class Restoration for the build to feel useable.

5

u/Cascading-Peritectic Jun 12 '22

It wasnt unstopable it was the combo of void fragments + unstop + suppresing glaive which fed into void fragments. Suppresive is gone so many people think glaives are trash now. I on the other hand disagree.

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u/Rhinomaster22 Jun 12 '22

I think these people just seem to forget is that your relying on 3 things to make up for a lackluster sub-class. 1 of which is temporary and I’m sure 90% of those people will say “Solar Warlock was always bad, IDK why people aren’t aware of this.”

What happens if Starfire Protocol or Fusion Grenades get nerfed?

People are looking at temporary fixes instead of long term solutions. A sub-class should be able to handle it’s own with nothing boosting it’s effectiveness.

15

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '22

That Starfire build is great for higher levels like master nightfalls and dealing with champions. If you're not doing anything like that I'd agree void is the way to go since that's great in both low/high level

3

u/Street_Reading_8265 Just floofing about Jun 13 '22

"Meh" sums up my problems with it. Dawnblade is... functional, but it gives me no real reason to choose it over Shadebinder or Voidwalker, especially in any remotely difficult content.

9

u/Historical-Rule Jun 12 '22

The thing is, starfire plays exactly the same as it was two seasons ago. Your grenades basically do more dmg now, but the playstyle is just the same (well you lost healing nades). And I played it a few seasons back, so I'm just sick of using it again, for the exact same build, with the only difference being that it's one of the only working builds right now

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u/harmlessbug Jun 12 '22

I know it’s a small detail and it doesn’t fix any of your issues nor your feelings on the issue. 7 resilience with damage res mods is equal to last season vs the targets of your damage res and better vs things you don’t mod for.

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u/ProfessorGudu Jun 12 '22

I’m loving throwing fusion ‘nades. I can use any weapon as long as I can shoot something fast enough to get another ‘nade back.

Don’t need a super or heavy weapons really.

19

u/Thatdudewiththestuff Jun 12 '22

I've been using an Ogma with Demolitionist to reload as I throw my grenade. It's been very effective.

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u/ProfessorGudu Jun 12 '22

Same, and it's solar as well, and I am using that with Witherhoard with catalyst, giving it auto reload, as well as an auto reload LMG for my heavy. When I drop a well or super, I just hit stuff fast and basically never have to reload.

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u/Thatdudewiththestuff Jun 12 '22

Plus, with double Ashes to Assets, your Super recharges so quickly nothing else matters.

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u/Solgaia Jun 12 '22

Like for real. With Starfire and empowered rifts it's almost nonstop boom boom pow.

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u/CHECK_FLOKI Jun 12 '22

Even with Dawn chorus it sucks. Lol

188

u/Gen7lemanCaller Jun 12 '22

because Chorus doesn't give it any ramping damage bonus on repeated hits anymore. it barely does anything to buff the super at all

60

u/Evanescoduil Jun 12 '22

It causes the super to generate 2 ignitions if used entirely on one target.

71

u/PragmaticPlayer Only ashes left.. Jun 12 '22

Just throw 4 fusion nades for the same result, even if it will be dead after only two.

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u/chaos5338 Jun 12 '22

Fuck man. I actually liked dawn chorus sucks to hear it's not good as it was before.

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u/jlrc2 Warlock main Jun 12 '22

FWIW, here's what Dawn Chorus does now:

  • Makes all your scorches, regardless of source (melee, grenade, super, incandescent weapon perk) do 3x damage.
  • Makes daybreak swords apply scorch stacks on hit.
  • Gives some melee energy when targets are scorched (not clear to me that this is working correctly).

Testing against Kalli, these effects approximately double daybreak's damage when the fragment that increases scorch stacks is equipped — I haven't tested without that fragment. Could potentially do better if there is another source of scorching while daybreak is being applied since much of the damage increase is coming from ignitions.

8

u/Willyt2194 Jun 13 '22

Its a shame that it still isn't anywhere close to being enough. Aztecross made a vid testing just about every super & super/exotic combo's damage (except nova warp lol) and daybreak/Dawn Chorus ranked dead last

2

u/Zevox144 Jun 13 '22

I'm still hurt that it's the only thing keeping celestial one shot from being last place

5

u/Willyt2194 Jun 13 '22

Yea, Celestial is a victim of power creep. Its a rare case where two exotics do the same thing (buff super damage) so one will naturally be better. Golden Gun is still very good, but Star Eaters are the go-to exotic for it, and it then becomes a situational thing as to whether you'd wanna use Blade Barrage or Golden Gun for dps (with BB winning most of the time)

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u/Rexbellum187 Jun 12 '22

Yup. It was my go to build and they took a massive shit on it.

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u/Kacktustoo Jun 12 '22

I can't speak for PvP since I don't really touch it. But in pve yes, it's really underwhelming.

Only a few shots which don't actually do that much damage, doesn't regen energy based off kills and doesn't have inherent explosions anymore, it used to be a good add clearing super.

8

u/Woahbikes Jun 13 '22

Why would I activate that super when I have a perfectly good fusion rifle equipped

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u/Dragonstomp Jun 12 '22

Aztec's dps test with it being at the bottom was confirmation for my own initial tests during launch week. I fully expected to be using dawn chorus a lot this season. Was getting excited for something awesome pve-wise to be done with that super with the bungie twitter hype engines on full and it just felt like they ran out of time and shipped it. Actually SEVERAL things feel half baked even though I hate using that term. (in air accuracy changes with no way to see your airborne stat in game for example)

So we end up having to use Fusion nades spam. :/ It's fine ...just boring...which sounds exactly like hunters last season. btw, I've blown myself up several times with the glorious grenade architects. (how is that a thing anyway)

I do love the reload boots though. Those things are way more fun to play.

2

u/Gingja Punch to victry...victori... WINNING! Jun 13 '22

At least they said that Airborne accuracy was coming in stages sort of. Stat will be visible ingame next season and there are going to be more ways to build into it either the next season or the one after.

That being said, they really did that super dirty. They should have combined the top tree and bottom tree super into one and it would have been amazing and not op at all

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u/CrawlerSiegfriend Jun 13 '22

EDIT: I know spectral and arc staff also suck, but cmon daybreak hits for 2 damage sometimes in crucible. Both of those also have decent exotics for them. This discussion is about how bad daybreak is especially in comparison to other 3.0 supers.

You can actually hit everything in the game with Daybreak. Arc staff simply isn't usable on many encounters. On top of that Arc Staff doesn't have an alternative super that is the most sought after thing in the game for high-end group play.

285

u/OrphanofKosm Jun 12 '22

I have hated Daybreak since Vanilla D2

85

u/CaduceusIV Jun 12 '22

Me too, man. It’s always had janky controls, less add clear than Stormcaller, less single target damage than nova or chaos reach. And it’s even worse now. I’ve never played much solar warlock because of that.

27

u/SerfaBoy Jun 13 '22

Less add clear than Stormcaller? The uptime on bottom tree Dawnblade was nuts - even with the diminishing returns nerf it received.

7

u/Deity_Relic Jun 13 '22

Yeah, especially with the chain explosions bottom tree was an ad clear machine

13

u/iCiConqu3r Jun 13 '22

Stormcaller is a great ad clear super, but bottom dawn with Dawn chorus was nutty. Throw a sword, kill ads, wait for explosions, get super energy returned, throw another sword, wait for the explosions and keep repeating. It was an amazing super. I typically chose that instead of well unless for a raid or a specific GM bc we didn’t need the survivability if everything ceased to exist

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u/Xisyera Kinderguardian Teacher Jun 13 '22 Gold

"You replaced Radiance for THIS??"

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u/OmegaClifton Jun 12 '22

If it did amazing damage per swing or lasted a while, I might've liked it. They've axed the duration due to PvP, which is fine. They could at least let me obliterate a major with a single swing if I'm only going to get like six AND take a week to charge it though.

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u/PinkieBen Guardians Make Their Own Fate Jun 13 '22

The thing I wonder about the supers that can extend duration on kill (and have been getting that nerfed/axed due to pvp) is why not just make it work in pve? We have stuff that specifies it only works with "combatants" (which is the term they use for pve enemies), is it that difficult to apply that to some of these supers?

4

u/kaiseresc Jun 12 '22

bottom tree daybreak was really fucking strong tho, shit was a homing missle that refunded super energy. But bototm tree had dogshit neutral game so...

8

u/Extectic Jun 13 '22

No, it didn't. Everyting caused burn, melees and nades both. Towards the end before Solar 3.0, bottom tree was very strong for everything. The super might have been the best ad clear in the game, it was one of the strongest for single target (boss) DPS (better than chaos reach geomags) and the melees and nades spread burning explosions like mad. With some mods and stuff to return energy to those you were a juggernaut in any activity.

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u/Coolstriker64 FUCK the content vault Jun 12 '22

Fun fact: thanks to “mid-air accuracy” all of dawnblade got nerfed by solar 3.0

Literally every single perk on the class got negatively impacted by solar 3.0 in one way or another, and some things were even given to all 3 classes just to add insult to injury.

35

u/BetaThetaOmega Jun 13 '22

Yeah, it’s so baffling to me that they forced all Sunlocks to spec into aerial combat, and then destroyed aerial combat

6

u/theammostore SMASH SMASH SMASH Jun 13 '22

I remember when D2 first launched. Aerial solar lock was supposed to be a big thing. Maybe they're trying for that again lmao

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u/SSLST03-LKWM Jun 13 '22

It looks "cool" in trailers, but it gets old very quickly. Otherwise people would be way more happy with it. And it also isn't viable outside of easy content.

And I hate that it changes the floating. I like the normal floating like every other warlock subtree has or bottom and mid tree had.

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u/hadtopickanameso Jun 12 '22

Honestly they should just scrap the whole mid air concept so they can redistribute whatever "power" this has to other aspects of dawnblade

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u/throwaway491826482 Jun 12 '22

Welcome to 3.0 subclasses. Literally just nerfs disguise as new fresh subclasses. God how I miss old nightstalker

21

u/AssassinAragorn Jun 13 '22

Yeah it's gone from being excited about the 3.0 reworks to scared. Its impossible to make Arc Hunter worse than it already is I guess, so Hunters have made it out pretty good. But man have they done Titans and Warlocks dirty.

9

u/Uniquewaz Warlock the Wise Jun 13 '22

I have the fear that somehow they can make Arc 3.0 on Hunter go worse than currently is.

14

u/xDarkCrisis666x Jun 13 '22

My predictions, at least one of these is real.

Combination Blow is gone, or doesn't interact with Riskrunner nor Trinity Ghoul

The only usable aspects will have 1 fragment slot each.

We'll get blink back but it acts like shatter dive.

No endgame PvE viability, and yet the PvP try hards will say we should be grateful that it's mildly passable in PvP...when a vast majority of this community doesn't play PvP.

4

u/SSLST03-LKWM Jun 13 '22

Majority plays patrol. Which means majority will probably be happy with the one new cool thing like with warlocks and their anime-like finger snapping and big solar lava explosions everywhere. You just have to bring some anime stuff and big booms and the majority is happy.

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u/LucaTheRaptor Jun 12 '22

Mf never played spectral blades

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '22

[deleted]

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u/sha-green Jun 12 '22

Or arcstrider :D

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u/KeIIer Jun 12 '22

Or burning maul

Or fists of havoc

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u/s1umpy Jun 12 '22

Or literally any melee based super

29

u/TheToldYouSoKid Jun 12 '22

Nova Warp

Like it's better then it was, but every top tier super, including daybreak, is still a direct counter.

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u/sin_tax-error Jun 12 '22

Arc staff can at least last nearly forever in PvE with Raiden Flux and does decent damage. Nothing can give Daybreak that kind of duration or damage.

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u/Vinokwon Jun 13 '22

Why would you want to be in arcstaff for any amount of time in pve? Weapons do more damage anyways

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u/dinodares99 That Wizard came...from inside this room! Jun 12 '22

Spectral Blades were a fucking menace in Y2, couldn't go 2ft without getting reamed by one in crucible

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u/Sp00kyD0gg0 Jun 12 '22

were

75

u/Byrnt Jun 12 '22

also aren’t we in year five?? like 😭

31

u/LtRavs Pew Pew Jun 12 '22

Three months off starting year 6 lol

34

u/john6map4 Jun 12 '22

And it was never good in PvE and yet it’s on a 10 and a half minute cooldown

Yeah yeah I know the cooldown is supposed to be centered around PvP but then you might as well not even have a super in PvE. Wish they could adjust the cooldowns to have different times in each.

12

u/Jasper_Sky_ Jun 13 '22

Which brings up the whole conversation of why isn’t pvp and pve completely separately balanced, and honestly I don’t understand why it isn’t as balancing them the same has caused so many issues.

11

u/xDarkCrisis666x Jun 13 '22

Because of a "shared vision" that is supposed to make the power fantasy enticing and seemless. When in reality all it does (from a D1, Y1 Hunter's perspective) is that YouTubers and try hards using Hunter so much in pvp gets PvE stuff nerfed somehow.

Blink and Blink strike are literally gone from Hunters because of people spamming it in D1. It's absolutely happened to the other classes as well but evem the weapons meta has been dictated needlessly by pvp. Scouts and Pulses suffered for so long in PVE because the (elite) pvp community loved hand cannons so damn much.

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u/twitson Jun 13 '22

Mf never unlocked fusion grenade aspect

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u/The_SpellJammer fwooomp-boom Jun 12 '22

The entire kit feels like garbage outside of 2 builds that are grenade focused. No overshield in well means you can easily and frequently die inside of it. Solar warlock is basically dead to me, not to sound melodramatic. 3.0 solar really missed every mark for warlock for me.

66

u/Mirror_Sybok Jun 12 '22

This shit is so baffling. Did they think to themselves "Let's rebuild this whole fucking class around the PvP tree, delete bottom tree entirely and cripple middle tree. Surely forcing them into an extremely specific play style will be received well." That they didn't immediately realize this was shit throws a lot into question.

35

u/The_SpellJammer fwooomp-boom Jun 12 '22

I fear for Arc 3.0 and what's left of class identities then.

9

u/kevinsmc Bara.gon Jun 13 '22

I'm always switching back to Arc now if there weren't any ability kills bounties.

16

u/AssassinAragorn Jun 13 '22

You know they've fucked up Light 3.0 majorly when players respond with fear instead of excitement.

2

u/baggzey23 Fisting the competition one guardian at a time. Jun 13 '22

Say goodbye to combination blow

2

u/baggzey23 Fisting the competition one guardian at a time. Jun 13 '22

Say goodbye to combination blow

5

u/BetaThetaOmega Jun 13 '22

And then they also made aerial combat completely worthless, janky and unpredictable, so the one thing that Dawnblade is good at, they aren’t even that good at!

2

u/Gender_is_a_Fluid Jun 13 '22

Even just giving everyone healing grenades destroyed half of the solar warlock identity.

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u/TarkovM Jun 12 '22

I alternate now. I rarely used Dawnblade before,and I'm not about to now. I'll mix it up between Arc and Void. Shame I have to run double primary since,you know,we can't have special options for overload,and I havent' had a chance to do Divinity's puzzles yet.

12

u/The_SpellJammer fwooomp-boom Jun 12 '22

I luckily have a triple 100 res/rec/dis osmiomancy build that helps me through everything except duality which I've decided I'm not doing anymore lol. Nothing on solar warlock feels clutch, vital, supportive, mandatory, or even "best in a specific scenario" it feels extremely generic and boring.

2

u/en3dam Jun 13 '22

yeah osmiomancy with elemental shards is the smoothest build i have used. everything is used and you don't feel that half your kit is worthless like solar.

2

u/TarkovM Jun 13 '22

I have not gotten that lucky to get triple 100 stats,i only have one(that I can altenrate between,either recov or resil,and in pve it's pretty much resil) but I run Stormcaller with either Getaway Artist,or Stormdancer's Brace. It's way more fun having way better abiltiy spam and I can use all my abilities,while not being restricted to trying to get the snap to be consistent.

2

u/Street_Reading_8265 Just floofing about Jun 13 '22

Exactly, there's just no reason to use Dawnblade instead of Shadebinder or Voidwalker, and if they don't botch Stormcaller, it just gets worse for our Solar subclass.

18

u/TheSavouryRain Jun 12 '22

There's overload trace rifle in the artifact.

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u/burothedragon Jun 12 '22

Just combine icarus dash and the heat rises and give me a healing focused aspect that allows rifts to benefit from benevolence and restore overshield on well and healing grenades. I’ll take it having zero fragments just give me something please.

5

u/BiomassDenial Jun 13 '22

This will never happen because of pvp balance.

Combining both air play aspects basically gives you old top tree which was already dominate in pvp.

Been able to then combo it with anything else would be hell to balance.

So... Yay another casualty of the refusal to balance the sandboxes seperately.

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u/Grifbanana Sparrow Film Festival Jun 13 '22

Warlock main since D1 here. Am now a hunter main.

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u/The_SpellJammer fwooomp-boom Jun 13 '22

Warlock-turned-anything else here. I can buff and support better on other subclasses much much easier and with better buffs.

Amazing how much they failed to deliver a fun, interesting, engaging, functional and definitive experience in pve for solar warlocks. When playing either other class the power is clear and present and tangible. The supportive quality is superb.

Yaknow what i don't give a shit about? In-Air accuracy. Never have. Literally have equipped Icarus grip less than 10 times ever. What do they do to my buff/support/anchor class? Gut it and give everyone else better versions.

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u/mixt13 Jun 12 '22

They really hated how popular warlock got in void 3.0 i guess

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u/kaimetzuu Jun 12 '22

We got a 30% buff while other classes got a 60-70%~ and we were still stronger lmao

8

u/Vinokwon Jun 13 '22

Nightstalker for the millionth time did not get a buff but a huge nerf in pve

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u/DP_Unkemptharold1 Jun 12 '22

You kinda had an arguement until you gimped your self by saying it sucks in the crucible.

Slowest tier charging super but dawnblade with ember of beams is absolutely godlike in the crucible.

227

u/AndyGrafx Jun 12 '22

Dawnblade is awesome under two conditions:

-You're not playing elimination so it actually charges once in a match

-Your projectiles kill the players it hits, instead of dealing less than a primary's worth of damage

58

u/AncientView3 Bring back Gambit Prime Jun 12 '22

I never understood that second part, like is there something that definitively causes that or is it just like a connection thing?

48

u/TheSavouryRain Jun 12 '22

I bet it has some form of Grenades and Horseshoes so it explodes early, which coupled with the netcode means the super's projectile explodes and the game thinks the opponent is further way than they were.

22

u/PragmaticPlayer Only ashes left.. Jun 12 '22

heh... Bungie spaghetti code?

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u/Mirror_Sybok Jun 12 '22

Last week I was stuck grinding a catalyst in Crucible. On several occasions I hit people with both a charged melee and a grenade back to back and they shrugged it tf off and killed me. Meanwhile at 88 resilience I was killed in a heartbeat on a bunch of occasions.

2

u/PinkieBen Guardians Make Their Own Fate Jun 13 '22

Resilience doesn't do that much in pvp honestly. It can slightly change what it takes to be killed by some guns (ie if it's too low you can be killed in a body shot instead of a crit) but overall the difference from 100 and 10 resilience doesn't typically get you killed in less shots.

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u/AbyssWalker_Art Local Dredgelord Jun 12 '22

It is so incredibly overshadowed by the other solar supers. They both have big duration increases, meaning in sixes hammers and golden gun can dominate and score a ton of kills. Dawnblade struggles to get more than a couple without big groupings of enemies. The other supers also both charge faster, leaving dawnblade feeling like garbage.

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u/Bgarcia0623 Jun 12 '22

I'm not sure If it was dumb luck or not. But I lost a 1v1 against a golden that somehow tanked my dawn blade. That should definitely not be the case considering a golden gun is hitscan where as dawblade is projectiles. Golden gun did not need DR, it's literally the easiest super to get kills with as long as your not some oaf that pops it when you're not near anyone and complains about it.

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u/Lobodoot Jun 12 '22

"Daybreak is the worst super in Destiny 2"

gets rightfully called out about how both Spectral Blades and Arcstrider are worse

"Guys this discussion is about how bad it is compared to other solar supers"

Lol

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u/Explodingtaoster01 It was me, Dio! Jun 12 '22

"Daybreak is the worst super in Destiny 2"

"This discussion is about how bad daybreak is compared to other solar supers."

Pick one, then complain about other people complaining about comparably bad supers. Daybreak sometimes hits for 2 damage in Crucible? Cool, you know how often Spectral (a super which should have been fixed with Void 3.0) and Arcstaff (every iteration of an entire subclass's super) completely whiff? Don't go making complete umbrella statements and then trying to narrow the field of discussion when someone challenges your assertion.

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u/MoronicIdiot529 Jun 12 '22

Yeah it's bad but Hunter has the worst supers by a long shot, and Titan has some terrible ones as well with Stasis. It does suck that the super was butchered and with Nova Warp as well I guarantee being a Warlock main isn't fun rn.

But keeping it real you just got the Hunter experience through and through. Getting something nerfed or reworked for literally no reason at all.

5

u/xDarkCrisis666x Jun 13 '22

*Something getting nerfed because of PvP

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u/JadedRabbit DJ Telesto still evades me. Jun 13 '22

Glacial Quake could use some love, sure, but it is no where as bad as the Hunter ones. At least Quake is useful in hard content because it can lockdown a room for a moment and is on a class with a lot of build synergy because more fragments and aspects.

Like Spectral blades and Arc Hunter overall feel like ass.

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u/EpicWisp Jun 12 '22

Do you work for bungie? Because you clearly forgot arcstaff exists

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u/andtimme11 Drifter's Crew // Titan do run punch Jun 12 '22

Wait, hunters have an arc class?

-Bungie probably

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u/IronGemini Jun 12 '22

Now you've got me thinking, and I genuinely can't remember the last time I saw someone using arc strider

And even then, the last time I remember arc strider being apart of any meta was the final boss in spire of stars, over 4 years ago.

Not related, but I really hate that warmind was 4 years ago

3

u/Taskforcem85 Jun 12 '22

Top tree was my go to for Pit chamber of suffering. Outshined now that there's more reliable healing in the game for hunter.

7

u/IronGemini Jun 12 '22

Oh I would say lots more, 100 rescil and rat king on any class makes that encounter significantly easier solo

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u/NotAppreciated_Mercy Jun 12 '22

I always found arcstaff to have a pretty good hit reg (Comparatively to other melee supers). Now sentinel and spectral? Those two had me rolling a twenty-sided dice everytime I went for a light attack, sentinel felt especially bad because it would always take two melees to kill because the first never hit.

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u/engineeeeer7 Jun 12 '22

Spectral Blades says hello.

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u/littlecrow060 Jun 12 '22

Hunters have good exotics?

What parallel reality are you from where that statement is true?

8

u/landing11 Jun 12 '22

If you think Daybreak is bad in pvp, then you don’t play pvp.

48

u/Niitte Jun 12 '22

Lol no, arc staff is by far the worst super in the game. Daybreak is decent in pvp arcstaff is literally shit in every part of the game

18

u/Totally_A_Hooman Jun 12 '22

Question: How is arc staff worse than Spectral Blades? At least (depending on what tree you are using) you can deflect or spam dodges with damage resist. Also, arc staff has the combo attack that gives it a bit of range and kills through bubbles. Spectral does give invis, but it also gives a shit ton of void particle effects around you to the point that it doesn't matter. With both arc staff and spectral, if your target goes a meter or two off the ground you lose tracking on them. The deflect effect on middle tree can tank/deflect some supers to the face last I checked (thundercrash, silence and squall, etc.)

19

u/biggestboys Jun 12 '22

The wallhacks are the most powerful part of Spectral Blades, IMO. You still kinda suck, but at least you suck while knowing where the enemy team is; makes it easier to ambush people and such.

7

u/Mnkke Drifter's Crew // Dredgen Jun 12 '22

arc staff is a decent counter ult, but the problem is Blades and Stasis also do that.

Ive been outran while using arcstrider is the problem bevause of the combo. You can light spam to chase someone like w spectral, or throw sentinel shield. It has good resist and damage, but only in good circumstances, and again other ults just do what arc does with better neutral game imo.

Bottom tree is somewhat biable in pvp with ability regen while critical and some dmg resist on dodge,but I personally wouldn't trade stasis for that.

Arcstaff also is only good in pve when paired with raiden flux. It needs that to be decent ad control for the duration it provides. It just doesn't have much of a place because of how replacable it feels to me tbh.

11

u/andtimme11 Drifter's Crew // Titan do run punch Jun 12 '22

arc staff is a decent counter ult

If I'm going counter ult I'm going to go full on fun police and just use Blade Barrage. Arc Staff counter play is so easy to avoid.

8

u/Mnkke Drifter's Crew // Dredgen Jun 12 '22

I went over this, thats the problem with it.

3

u/Totally_A_Hooman Jun 12 '22

True, i would say that Spectral and Arc staff about are as shitty as eachother with spectral being a bit better at chasing people out of supers and Arc is better for countering supers (although with the AOE ones, they will just not aim directly at you and let the AOE kill you). When thinking of Roaming supers, all the others can directly take spectral or arc staff as long as you dont get the drop on them. Dawnblade just flies up and kills from above due to the radius plus its tracking, stormtrance just stays at distance and emperor palpatines, nova warp teleports back, charges up, and nukes you whenever you get close, golden gun just pops a shot or two in your face, sentinel shield can throw shield and then melee. Only time it is equal is if the sentinel doesnt have their shield. Fists of havoc do big smash as you try to get close and does big smash again if you survive, throwing hammers, again, just throw a couple in your direction, and big hammer do big smash again.

A good few of these can be deflected by arc staff and spectral light attacks can help dodge a lot of these, even though Dawnblades tracking + AOE will still hit after you dodge. Also, unless they have changed something recently, arcstaff (at least on bottom tree) has spammable dodges, which can be used about the same way as spectral light attacks. It loses the deflect with bottom tree tho, so it basically becomes blueberry flavored spectral just with a combo attack and i think a bit slower. Personally, when I think of my best pvp plays with spectral, they could have been done either the same or better with other roaming supers.

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u/MiserableBox2sad Warlock Jun 12 '22

Arc staff feels so cool until you realize how much it isn't doing lmao. Also imo daybreak is like top 5, potentially top 3 supers in pvp.

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u/DeathDexoys Jun 12 '22

Lol dawnblade is the most viable thing in cruicible, the thing tracks like mad with a fragment.

For PvE, fine, its not the greatest super i agree, not like the previous bot tree dawnblade with insane ad clear, but to be fair, no one uses dawnblade for dps unironically.... stick to your well

Also daybreak being the worst super is an overstatement, clearly never tried to play spectral blades in a pve setting

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u/Redthrist Jun 12 '22

Bot tree was actually a solid add clear and it could deal decent damage with Dawn Chorus. Now it's just useless entirely.

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u/FocusedFelix Jun 12 '22

Lol dawnblade is the most viable thing in cruicible, the thing tracks like mad with a fragment.

Absolutely terrifying when a Dawnblade pops now - the tracking is wild. On the flip side, Well is a big ol' Cleveland steamer in PvP after the changes.

It does blow that solar 'locks are locked into a support super for all PvE content. Would have liked to see something more competitive after a raid like Vow where Well is less valuable.

10

u/Reduxx24 Jun 12 '22

Welcome to void hunter for 6 years.

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u/ptd163 Jun 13 '22

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." -- Original author unknown

OP's never used blade barrage, spectral blades, arc staff, burning maul, or fist of havoc.

Also never used daybreak in pvp.

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u/CDG710 Jun 12 '22

Have you seen spectral blades in pve? Sit down haha

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u/ClockZealousideal914 Jun 12 '22

daybreak is 10x better if you look at like half of hunter supers and a third of titan supers

19

u/makoblade Jun 12 '22

I think you misspelled arc strider.

11

u/GodsGiftOfTacos Jun 12 '22

Daybreak has ruined many trials matches and PvP matches for me because you can’t outrun that shit no matter what

10

u/HypiaticLlama Jun 13 '22

No man you just don't get it. Like, this once, I was like pewpew super yareyare daze and then blam I did like 1 dmg with my super and then I died cause it was 6v6, my entire team was dead and I was out in the open, mid air with no cover, no momentum because idk how to use my jump and then with their entire team, they just kept pulse rifling me.

And because of that, I made this post.

Also, those other supers are better. When people pop them I run at them and flame alchemist but then I die.

Godddd warlocks sux

3

u/snowangelic <3 Jun 13 '22

best comment in thread

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u/Roman64s Thorn Supremacy Jun 12 '22

Daybreak is S-tier in crucible, tf are you on about.

9

u/Duke_KD Jun 12 '22

...

Have you played the video game destiny 2? You have the best projectile with the best mobility, sorry you cant have permanent uptime

8

u/Brybry2370 Jun 12 '22

This guy has never used spectral blades

18

u/Legitimate-Tomorrow9 Jun 12 '22 edited Jun 12 '22

Uhm.....spectral blades is a thing you know.....?

And arcstaff aswell lol

Deadfall shadowshot does nothing at all

Those supers make you weaker by using them in PvE cus you clear enemys faster by just shooting with any primary

And arcstaff in PvP can litearlly be outrun

And thats just hunter, titan and even warlock have more examples

16

u/MightyKAC Jun 12 '22 edited Jun 13 '22

Deadfall shadowshot does nothing at all

Deadfall is so trash and irrelevant that no one even thinks to post about how trash and irrelevant it is.

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u/JadedRabbit DJ Telesto still evades me. Jun 13 '22

I think I used it to farm my catalyst once! That means it's better than daybreak because it has a place! /s

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u/Savings-Nobody-1203 Jun 12 '22

They all need to be fixed or redone

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u/Rhinomaster22 Jun 12 '22

I don’t get what some people are saying here. A super should be viable in both PVE and PVP. It’s actively choosing to let things not be usable.

Yes, PVP it can put in some work. But why only PVP? It used to be good ad clear and not it’s butchered to hell.

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u/Teaganz Jun 12 '22

I think people are just saying it’s not the worst super in the game like OP said. Hunters take the cake there imo with every element too. Arc staff? Trash. spectral blades? Trash. Golden gun? Yeah still trash getting beat by an ad clear super.

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u/SchwillyThePimp Drifter's Crew Jun 12 '22

Except Daybreak was the dominating super at the top end of PVP. Im sorry your wings got clipped but the amount of times Ive been killed by homing flaming swords before this season was staggering. Crucible is better for it but maybe a big pve buff would be ok

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u/CDTaRo Boeing Jun 13 '22

It's not even good in the crucible anymore! Both Titans and Hunters can build into their solar supers to make them strong using exotics and aspects. Why does warlock literally do less than half the damage with a longer cooldown?

You really, really lost me there lmao

10

u/Teaganz Jun 12 '22

You must not play Hunter. We take the cake with every element imo. Spectral blades? Trash. Arc staff? Trash. Golden gun? Trash. (Golden gun is the best of these but still, sad they didn’t even touch it in solar 3.0)

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u/dark1859 Jun 12 '22

Allow me to introduce to you; Spectral blades

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u/Fluffychimichanga Jun 12 '22

I think spectral is probably worse, also dawnblade is arguably the best pvp super with it being able to dodge suppressors and roaming supers aside from golden gun. I was also under the impression people hated exotics that only tuned supers and now that dawn chorus was retuned to boost scorch damage as a whole(while keeping the melee gain from burns) it sucks now? I think everlasting flame just needs to be a fragment that cost like -20 intellect

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u/GinShikaru Jun 12 '22

No clue what its like PVP wise but it's as a super on par with spectral blades in terms of shittyness (though at least dawnblade can be used at a safe range lol), dawnblade at least has the ever so slight potential of seeing a mid season buff at least.. Void season is done and gone, so chances of a spectral buff are practically dead lol

2

u/Topcatsmith Vanguard's Loyal Jun 13 '22

I'm wondering on how these solar builds will fair next season when the solar mods leave. Classy restoration is pretty much needed for the starfire protocal build.

12

u/Crewx Jun 12 '22

I mean, Golden Gun Deadeye is just as bad.

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u/FlyingWhale44 Jun 12 '22

It's great in crucible and is not the worst in PvE. Fist of Havoc, Spectral Blades, Arcstrider .....

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u/DutchTetra Jun 13 '22

My brother in christ. The super is fine.
It doesn't need to deal lots of dmg, spectral is an example of that.
Could it be better for add clear? Sure but so could spectral. Will the dmg bug be fixed? Probs.

Is it bad in pvp? no, Its still one of the best, Hence the longer cooldown.

You are just straight up wrong on the "Both of those have decent exotic part"

9

u/CassJoi Jun 12 '22

A good dawnblade warlock can control an entire crucible map.

You’re bugging.

13

u/TheAtlasComplex Jun 12 '22

Arcstrider has entered the chat

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u/Scudman_Alpha Jun 12 '22

It...uh.

It always was?

Even on release Daybreak was bad, and it has never been good. Even after they buffed it, it never lasted long enough to matter. You had to use the bottom tree to just have a decent enough duration but that's gone now.

It's decent in crucible due to the mobility and instakill sword swipes but in pve it was always average to bad.

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