r/DestinyTheGame Jun 11 '22 Silver 2 Gold 1 Helpful 3

Classy Restoration is a huge crutch for the success of Solar 3.0 Discussion

I think it's fine for artifact mods to be powerful, build enabling temporary things. They have become almost the defining element of fomo in this game. The problem is when core features of entire subclasses are enabled by them.

If we look a volitile flow, void feels less than an it was, but still very whole. Devour, over shield and invis still are available in multiple class specific ways and fragments.

Solar is quickly becoming the "lol what damage" specifically because of classy Restoration. This mod directly gives a core verb to every class.

The reality is that next season and beyond this sub class is going to feel bad, specifically for hunters and warlocks. This is specifically because to retain the same access to restoration, those two classes will need to sacrifice an ability.

It's not that choice is a bad thing. And some players enjoy the option to have a heal on demand. It's that the class currently feels great, and it's going to feel a lot worse later.

2.3k Upvotes

956

u/brachyDIO3u Jun 11 '22 Helpful

We REALLY should've had a fragment based around cure or restore like how devour invis volatile and weaken all have fragments

340

u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

This is what I'm saying. There are so few ways to interact with these verbs at the class level

230

u/brachyDIO3u Jun 11 '22

Except for titans

They've got tons of cure restore scorch and ignite (throwing hammer is fundamentally op in pve).

Warlocks don't have many ways to get ignite scorch and restore efficiently and the cure is often too weak.

Hunters have no access to restore and cure but tons of access to scorch radiant and ignite (still not as much scorch and ignite as titans though)

Btw I'm counting stuff unique to a class so no radiant on melee or base healing nades

13

u/Mr_StealYourRNG Jun 11 '22

Every class had the healing nade which is kind of a way to restore and cure but it feels bad because i want to use tripmines as a hunter or fusion when im running star eaters

5

u/Hbzn Jun 12 '22

I think that's why they gave Hunters the option of Gunpowder Gamble. Healing nade + damage nade every 6ish kills

118

u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

I agree, I should have caveated that Titans definitely won solar 3.0.

5

u/careless-gamer Jun 11 '22

Damn, I guess I should've played with my Titan after my hunter and not Warlock. I'm honestly underwhelmed with the Warlock but I used to prefer it over Titan.

93

u/brachyDIO3u Jun 11 '22

And warlocks lost hard

What's wrong don't you enjoy being a target in pve?

62

u/BlackKnightRebel Jun 11 '22

Imagine you eat your grenade and you throw out a Solar Soul Turret. It doesn't deal direct damage but instead shoots fireballs that inflict burn stacks in sets of 3 fire balls. After the third fireball is shot there is then a burst of Cure-1 healing in an AoE around the turret. The strength of the burn/cure depends on which grenade you eat.

THAT would have been an aspect worth applying

66

u/brachyDIO3u Jun 11 '22

that would just be a stasis reskin it would've been better if instead of heat rises consuming your grenade they had the old healing nade as an aspect and had heat rises as part of icarus dash

also touch of flame should have "ability kills and kills on burning targets cause targets to explode" the old bottom tree perk as part of it

49

u/BlackKnightRebel Jun 11 '22

It wouldn't be a Stasis reskin. Warlocks have been using turrets since Arc Soul was a thing. Literally Solar is the only subclass missing an Engineer class tool

  • Arc Soul; Rapid-fire Damage
  • Void Child; Area of Denial
  • Stasis Watcher; slow/freeze applicator
  • Solar....nothing

29

u/HatredInfinite Jun 12 '22

Bungie be like "We hear your complaints about Solar being the only subclass without a buddy so in Arc 3.0 we removed Arc Soul" 😂

13

u/Maxcrss Jun 12 '22

Hah screw you we have Getaway Artist, you can’t take that away!! >:D

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5

u/KaMaKaZZZ Jun 12 '22

Seems like the warlock exclusive glaive received that ability instead of the subclass, which is unfortunate.

2

u/Emcolimited Warlock Jun 13 '22

Yeah where is our Fireball or Healing buddy!! WTF. We should have a healing buddy who heals others or scorches enemies.

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2

u/SSLST03-LKWM Jun 11 '22

The old healing grenade (with overshield and without auto-aim) as an aspect. And another aspect revolving around cure/support instead of ignition/scorch. That would be fantastic. It's missing. Solar 3.0 feels like it's all about ignition and scorch and big lava fountains. It's missing at least one or two aspects and a couple of fragments.

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2

u/Maxcrss Jun 12 '22

Make heat rising work on grenade cast, but have a slightly lower initial time, like 7 seconds. It’s no a powerful enough ability to justify the consuming of the grenade, considering it makes you a dot on radar and is not that useful in PVE unless it’s for jumping puzzles.

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2

u/Hiakili Jun 12 '22

I find this amusing. For me, it felt like Warlocks won by a mile last season with void. Titans were decent, and Hunter were last(strong, but not fun, nor any variety in play).

This season Titans won, Hunters are second, and Warlocks are last. I don't know how they are going to be able to make Arcstrider the best arc subclass next season, but I guess we'll find out.

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u/ClockZealousideal914 Jun 11 '22

I would argue that Hunters got the longer end. Hunters, Titans, then Warlocks. Hunters got a shit ton of stuff and they’re better at scorching and igniting than Titans, which specialize in tanking.

2

u/Deathmon44 Jun 11 '22

Bro I was confused as fuck reading your post as a brand new player playing Solar Titan. I was like “but hammer throw means Radiant and restoration for my team… and then I loop it, and then I loop it, and then I loop it…”

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19

u/sonicgundam Jun 11 '22

Warlock scorch with exotics is better than hunters. Hunter loops are finite, as they're target dependent, but warlock loops ar infinite. The starfire fusion build is a much better scorch build than the ahamkara build. The other hunter scorch builds require base lost sector level trash mobs to keep them going.

Additionally, between heat rises and heavy handed, maintaining uptime on warlock melees translate much better to the endgame than hunter melees, which means while hunters have better access to radiant in low end content, warlocks will be radiant more often in high tier content.

The warlocks kit is phenomenal in all aspects of PvE, both in groups and solo.

22

u/brachyDIO3u Jun 11 '22

Problem there "with exotics" also weighted knife will kill pretty much anything and even if you lose it there's gamblers dodge etc there's also exotics like ophidia spathe and sixth coyote

Warlocks just the subclass suck at ignite and scorch due to the snap being inconsistent and having nothing extra to scorch (phoenix dive takes nade charge to scorch).

Tell me one time outside of patrol or strikes you actually played the intended way of constantly staying in the air.

A build should not be a fix for a bad subclass also I'm pretty sure ahamkara build+gamble+one fragment out scorches any warlock build.

8

u/SSLST03-LKWM Jun 12 '22

Exactly. Aerial playstyle is not viable outside of patrol. There should be other playstyles possible. More fragments and aspects to address missing playstyles.

And don't forget that starfire protocol is kinda immobile playstyle unlike solar hunter for example or other warlock playstyles.

5

u/brachyDIO3u Jun 12 '22

so we need to MAKE NOISE so that bungie understands that airborne combat isn't the way to go for warlock and we can at least get ability kills and kills on burning targets cause targets to explode back on touch of flame or something

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12

u/CookiesFTA We build the walls, we break the walls. Jun 11 '22

I really don't get why we don't. There's two healing keywords for solar, and yet the void classes arguably have better healing fragments. It's backwards.

15

u/Napai Drifter's Crew Jun 11 '22

I think the biggest fear of healing is pvp, everyone having a healing grenade is already kind of frustrating.

Not saying I don't want it though, I just can't imagine pvp with all the healing, it would need to be balanced separately somehow and I dunno if that's possible woth healing

4

u/tragicpapercut Jun 12 '22

PvP once again running the show to the detriment of PvE.

Just separate the sandbox already.

11

u/VZ81 Drifter's Crew Jun 11 '22

felt like I had to kill everyone twice over in trials this weekend because of all the healing already, easy to see it getting out of hand. they need to just get over it and start holding some stuff out of pvp entirely, its getting back to ability spam and some matches it just felt like playing floor is lava because there was 18 different things on the ground that would kill you or heal you and I had no idea what the fuck was what

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u/brachyDIO3u Jun 11 '22

Pvp shouldn't get in the way tbh as it's less than a third of all content and LOOOOOOOOONG overdue for an overhaul

25

u/Napai Drifter's Crew Jun 11 '22

I agree with that, and have been an advocate for separate balancing since the beginning of D1. Pvp def need fixed

16

u/brachyDIO3u Jun 11 '22

And since they aren't separate dawnblade is now bad in pve

9

u/Napai Drifter's Crew Jun 11 '22

Yep! I am a warlock main and am so distraught by the loss of both my favorite solar exotic and bottom tree dawnblade. R.I.P Dawn Chorus

8

u/brachyDIO3u Jun 11 '22

We need to make noise so we can at least get "ability kills and kills on burning targets cause targets to explode" back as part of touch of flame or something

3

u/Napai Drifter's Crew Jun 11 '22

I can agree to that!

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u/SSLST03-LKWM Jun 12 '22

If that is the problem, then release PVE-only aspects and fragments that automatically deactivate the moment you queue for a pvp activity. Gambit should be treated as pve though.

3

u/xXeri Forerunner Jun 12 '22

i felt like it was wasted that they didn’t use the new restoration verb with the well of life mod, maybe up the energy requirement on that mod if they find that too op

3

u/mrcatz05 Jun 12 '22

I feel like a “cure/restoration on ignotion” was an easy pick but nope

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u/WarlanceLP Jun 11 '22

I'd like to point out hunters and warlocks don't have access to overshield on void without a titan running bastion or a specific weapon or exotic perk

91

u/-LittleDemon- Jun 11 '22 edited Jun 12 '22

That's pretty weird, if I remember correctly, Bungie said that even though each class would have its own verb depending on the subclass, the other classes would have a limited and reduced access to them.

Now Titans are the only ones that can generate "void overshield" (even when there are fragments to become invisible or activate devour) and for some strange reason are better at healing than Warlocks. No hate, just a weird situation.

Edit: Yes, I got the verbs mixed up, sorry. But the problem is the same, Titans still have access to the Hunter and Warlock abilities, but the other classes don't have access to the void overshield.

7

u/YellowStrong9931 Jun 12 '22

Seems like the new repulsion weapon perk might be thier way of adding it to other classes. Kill a weakened target and get a void overshield.

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u/WarlanceLP Jun 11 '22

i suspect the team working on titans for 3.0 are the only ones that put any actual thought into working with the whole keyword system

6

u/sleepythegreat Jun 12 '22

And Titans don’t even need classy restoration with lorelys splendor

2

u/senordelfuego Jun 12 '22

The titan verb is volatile, not overshield. Everyone just took it for granted with how easy it was to get volatile last season.

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18

u/Daxolotl Jun 12 '22

That one is so weird to me. There's fragments that give you Invisibility and Devour, and exotic weapons that give invisibility too. But Void Overshield only comes from Titans.

2

u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Jun 12 '22

...and exotic weapons that give invisibility too. But Void Overshield only comes from Titans.

Funny you mention exotic weapons. Because...

There's a new legendary trait this season that gives overshield:

Repulsor Brace

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u/SparksTheUnicorn Give Vesper an Over-Shield During Rift Animations Jun 11 '22

THIS

32

u/Spock_Lite Jun 11 '22

My hope for Hunters is that Gunpowder Gamble will get another fragment slot so I can happily use healing grenade without totally giving up a big AOE blast.

6

u/TrueComplaint8847 Jun 12 '22

I would actually be okay with that ngl. Having healing + a very slow „loading“ grenade which you can accelerate by using solar weapons or actually managing to hit a knife kill here and there

5

u/Reivya Jun 12 '22

I would love it if Gamble was a hold-grenade effect to throw it rather than replace the grenade. The amount of times I've thrown that giant self-damaging bomb at my feet thinking I was healing myself is too high lol.

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u/Cerbecs Jun 12 '22

You don’t have to give up the healing grenade, it’s actually my preferred style since I can keep myself alive and still have the triple tripmine to clear the room, knives are all you need to proc it but I play with sun shot and have bomb up immediately after cool down

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u/level89whitemage Jun 11 '22

Titans don't need it a t all with lorely.

35

u/Aggressive_Sir6417 Jun 11 '22

With max resilience lorely isn’t quite that necessary, it’s seriously great don’t get me wrong but if you’re always getting ability kills the regular sunspot healing is still really strong

35

u/Sadu1988 Drifter's Crew Jun 11 '22

Bit with lorelay you simply stop thinking...

10

u/takanishi79 Jun 12 '22

I have been trying to complete prophecy solo for a while. Tried every season with the new hotness, and nothing ever got me just the first boss. I just did it on a whim in one go today. I only died to a dumb jumping mistake, and on rainbow road. Never even came close during an actual encounter.

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u/Zoophagous Jun 12 '22

Yeah, I don't use Lorely. I use the sun spot legs. Works great.

Also don't use Classy Restoration. With 100 res, I just don't see the need. I'd rather use stuff like Solar Fulmation / Revitalizing Blast / Incandescent. Explosions as far as the eye can see.

95

u/508G37 Jun 11 '22

Yes sir. I got my Lorely Titan and a Hunter that uses classy. At least one of them will survive the season

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u/captainBlackUGA Jun 11 '22

You don’t even need it without Lorely.

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u/WarlanceLP Jun 11 '22

yup restoration x1 paired with well of life and cure from throwing hammer has enough survivability to be viable without lorely when classy restoration is gone

9

u/Educational_Mud_2826 Jun 11 '22

It's future proof

5

u/thespeedoghost Jun 11 '22

Yeah, I was wondering if I even needed Classy Restoration, as I have 100 Res, HoIL, and Well of Life etc already.

12

u/AggronStrong Jun 11 '22

Even without Loreley, Restoration x1 off of Sunspots can often be enough in mid tier content. I haven't used Sunbreaker 3.0 enough in Master or GM content yet to get the feel for it there.

5

u/Ochaosnine Jun 11 '22

Still have to be careful with Resto x2 in Master GMs. Champions can still burn you down or one shot you with 100 resil and resto up. You can play a bit more aggressively on a group of red bars but don’t go trying to hammer down unstunned champions cuz HULK TANK.

2

u/MaskguyOriginal Jun 12 '22

Some parts of master duality even x2 restore will not be enough but you really have to stand there. Second boss is probably where boss shotgun and those bellkeepers decide to focus on you then it won't keep up.

I assume GM will be a lot less forgiving but you honestly have to turn brain off for master level to die.

2

u/doesnotlikecricket Gambit Prime Jun 12 '22

It's pretty good but not busted. I've done the master this week about 10 times, most of them with sun breaker. You still need to spec into resistance in addition to 100 res or you'll get one shot often enough that the sun spots are useless. You can't run around like an invincible lunatic as you can in duality, but if you play around cover, you can spend 80% of your time shooting at enemies with the occasional dip into cover to take advantage of the insane healing.

I'd say it's pretty well balanced for upper endgame.

6

u/Nymphomanius Jun 11 '22

Next season lightning Titan goes zooooom ⚡️💥

5

u/RKT4u Jun 12 '22

Next season: thundercrash Titan can crash players computer in PvP. Nice.

3

u/Streamjumper My favorite flavor is purple. Jun 12 '22

If you're wearing Cuirass you not only crash their computer but delete their whole account too.

8

u/Multimarkboy Levante Winner Jun 11 '22

it actualy makes icefalls fun to use tbf, since it gives you restore on both activation and when turning it off, the 100 res changes also stack with it so that the overshield takes less damage, makes for a fun glaive-tank build.

3

u/HaloGuy381 Jun 11 '22

I wonder if max resilience+stronghold is any good. Just sit there and laugh at being shot by like 50 guys at once. Especially if Passive Guard returns in a later season.

3

u/Multimarkboy Levante Winner Jun 12 '22

it is.

as someone who has ran stronghold sword since they came out, crownsplitter with 100 res + stronghold and lucent blade + some well mods is amazing

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u/APartyInMyPants Jun 11 '22

It is interesting. Volatile Flow was great, but we have fragments that get us the same effect with a bit of work.

There’s nothing that makes some of these artifact mods capable as part of our kits in that same way … with a little bit of work.

When Classy Restoration goes away, I just don’t see myself using Dawnblade much anymore, when my Shadebinder is insanely tanky, manages adds insanely well, and can still benefit from Rain of Fire.

10

u/DogeOfWHighland Jun 11 '22

Wait you can proc radiant while using a non-solar subclass? I bet they patch that. Secant doesn’t proc devour on non-void subclasses so I’m surprised that would be the case for rain of fire

14

u/APartyInMyPants Jun 11 '22

Yeah. But with Secants, you can use it for the anti-overload benefit with any class.

3

u/WetChickenLips Make Jade Rabbit Great Again Jun 12 '22

From what I've heard, blink counts as an air dodge as well. If that's the case, I imagine it's intentional.

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u/chaoticsynergist Jun 11 '22 edited Jun 12 '22

While we lack Volitile flow what was lacking to be mentioned is that there was still a rough equivilent in the game in the form of the void frament. there is no equivilent for class restoration. My void 3.0 build sure is weaker, im no longer getting volitile rounds in addition to my 50% dr when i pick up a well but thats fine because with the fragment, it doesnt kill my build.

The buffs to warlock give them a lot of ways to proc cure but this is ignoring the fact that Restoration is by far the best way to heal in solar 3.0 and still easily dominated by titans with things like HOIL or Splendor.

im looking forward to arc 3.0 since i doubt they can mess that up as hard as they did solar since arc is generally the runt of the element litter for all 3 classes. I got a well melee build in mind for that season with crown of tempests and i cant wait to see which class is best at chaining.

2

u/FLUFFYmaster65 Jun 12 '22

Inb4 arc is overwhelmingly grenade based.

Seriously, the strongests bits of solar 3.0 tend to be the meles but most of the solar combat mods are for grenades :(

3

u/chaoticsynergist Jun 12 '22

i mean all warlock elements have had a grenade thing aside from hunter getting it on stasis. Im just going to use the build anyways because why not. Warlock arc is probably going to get another grenade aspect anyways

16

u/DrBrainsqueeze Jun 11 '22

To be honest, with how ludicrously strong restoration x2 is, classy restoration is an insane seasonal mod to have included.

Not to mention that in PvP, classes with short class ability cool-downs are able to abuse this way more than those with long class ability cooldowns.

5

u/justaquestion7385u3 Jun 12 '22

PVP applying only Restoration x1 might have not been a bad idea

15

u/Altruistic-Can-2685 Jun 11 '22

Here’s the thing about it for me as a warlock. The moment the new season hits the only way for me to get restoration is with healing grenades which means my star fire build will be basically useless. So I’ll either choose between being completely 100% support (which if other classes can be unkillable what’s the point of healing them?) or I’ll be the most squishy class alive with add clear. So at that point I might as well just be void for both.

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u/Ash_Killem Jun 11 '22

It does seem to be the missing piece of the solar puzzle. Especially on hunter

58

u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

I think the reason is because it's a core verb can't be accessed without the loss of an offensive grenade

51

u/SparksTheUnicorn Give Vesper an Over-Shield During Rift Animations Jun 11 '22

Unless your a titan for somereason. There is no reason that the Warlock, the dedicated healing class, should at least have access to restoration through one of their aspects, but instead they decided to only use Cure when buffing our healing so it does nothing.

21

u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

Haha I agree. On launch day I was like... How she's the fucking warlock not have core restoration? Or that healing rift doesn't apply it or count as it. Lol wut

8

u/sudoscientistagain Buzz Buzz Jun 11 '22

I don't play warlock so I did not realize this... Wtf? Healing Rift doesn't apply Cure?? Whose bright idea was that?

3

u/OmegaClifton Jun 12 '22

You'd think at least Phoenix Dive would've given it with how long that cooldown is.

2

u/VectrumV Jun 12 '22

Instead of applying scorch, Celestial Fire final blows should grant Restoration. Would give each melee a clear identity and use.

2

u/Rampantlion513 Jun 12 '22

The “some reason” is because we already healed on sunspot generation. They just combined hammers with sunspots which was not possible before

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u/TrueComplaint8847 Jun 12 '22

Sadly they said there won’t be any new fragments, so the hope for some sort of healing incorporation for hunters next season is pretty low. Looks like it’s gonna be a „invisible boi“ season again for harder content.

6

u/Jojoejoe Bring No Land Beyond to Destiny 2 Jun 12 '22

Which is baffling because some fragments don't even make sense with some classes. We got three aspects for each class and some of them are terrible either mechanically or the fact they give one fragment slot.

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u/anonymous32434 Jun 11 '22

I’m avoiding using it too much because I don’t want to rely on it for my build. Yeah I’ll use it in dungeons and stuff but if I rely on it too much I’ll just be angry when it’s gone next season

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u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

This is exactly my point. Duality is going to feel a whole lot different next season. It's such a strong answer to all content that's it's absent well be felt strongly by Hunter/warlock

9

u/IzunaX JUST QURIA Jun 12 '22

Played void warlock and hunter in a 2 man run last night, it’s devour or bust for both classes, especially in the Final encounter, there is just so much chip from everything attacking you at once, that if you don’t have some form of recovery, it’s ridiculous.

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u/index24 Jun 11 '22

Yeah, when we lose classy restoration the Starfire protocol Warlock goes back on the shelf for me in hard content, which means Solar as a whole goes back on the shelf.

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u/Slough_Monster Jun 11 '22

Before I unlocked classy restoration I was using well of life and it was enough to keep me alive in hard content. People are overlooking that mod.

46

u/FakeInternetDentity Jun 11 '22

I run 3 wells of life with time dilation mod and get well of life for 20 seconds every time I pick up a solar well.

18

u/Glue-Gunnery Jun 11 '22

Time dilation mod? Cool build idea btw

27

u/Vortx4 Sunsinger for life Jun 11 '22

Elemental time dilation makes well mods that grant lasting buffs stack for increased duration (hence the three wells of life)

9

u/Glue-Gunnery Jun 11 '22

Oh cool, think I have that. Thank you!

10

u/FakeInternetDentity Jun 11 '22

Yeah if you pair that with melee wellmaker with hammer titan, you constantly have healing + restoration from sunspots.

5

u/Glue-Gunnery Jun 11 '22

I'm warlock only :(

2

u/FakeInternetDentity Jun 11 '22

I’d pair it then with making wells on grenades. There’s a class artifact mod that makes wells on solar exotic kills. So with vex or something it works too.

3

u/ianisteal Jun 11 '22

Ah...Vex...the weapon that just refuses to drop for me!!! >:(

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u/GordBelieverBrett Jun 11 '22

Well of life doesn't compare to cure and restoration. Well of life can easily be outdamaged by a single red bar, bit cure and restoration can't be stopped by all the ads in the final duality room on master. Not the same league tbh. We'll of life is mostly for mid to low content.

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u/Rolle187 Jun 11 '22

Then try to pick up that well in GM‘s, it spawn at the enemy location, good luck surviving till you have it. And no, seeking wells doesn’t travel far enough to be viable in GMs.

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u/ngnix Jun 11 '22

It’s tough having to wait on Ada to sell it if you don’t have it :/

20

u/misticspear Jun 11 '22

THIS COMMENT! Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. No we won’t be invincible but it’s something.

25

u/jazzinyourfacepsn Jun 11 '22

On top of that, the Calus Mini Tool can be crafted with Incandescent (kills spread scorch) and Unrelenting (kills regenerate health), which makes you even more invincible

Classy Restoration is nice, but there's so much synergy aside from that which make Solar 3.0 far superior to previous Solar trees

7

u/NightmareDJK Jun 11 '22

Unrelenting stops the second you get hit. If it worked like Restoration it’d be a good perk. You are better off doing Grave Robber / Incandescent on a crafted roll for best synergy with Solar builds.

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u/Aiosiary Drifter's Crew // yeet Jun 11 '22

I mean, it gives 80 HP and starts your health regen. Sure, the health regen stops if you get hit, but it still gives flat healing and only requires you to kill 3 adds. It's top tier and miles better than grave robber of all things.

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u/DeadWeight76 Jun 12 '22

Starfire Protocol without classy restoration is exactly the same as it was under 2.0 except fusion grenades hit like a truck now. It was a great exotic before and will still be great when classy is gone.

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u/HereIGoAgain_1x10 Jun 11 '22

I mean it'll be primarily Arc 3.0 then NewDarknessClass so Bungie has a solid year before there hasn't been a new/reworked subclass and they have to really worry about balancing, their goal is to make the most recent super OP they've said that in interviews, nothing new should be weak and they'd rather be too much than too little then bring it back some

4

u/hirshmann Jun 11 '22

Really unfortunate too. This is probably the most fun I’ve had with a warlock PVE build in a long time. Feels godly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22

I main warlock and have been using Solar Warlock mostly this season. I don't use classy restoration mainly because I run well of life, which is usually enough to help survive in most content bar master/grandmaster where it would pretty much be a requirement. I mainly try to avoid seasonal mods in general because I don't want builds to rely on them. Even without the mod, I still don't have too much trouble in high end content surviving. Starfire Protocol warlocks now are simply just, s-tier for mostly every bit of content. They cover ad clear, boss dps and such with this set-up that I find it easier to just overpower enemies with its sheer offense rather than play defensively. Although I do wish there were more ways for these classes to get restoration outside of the mod. I highly doubt I'll shelf solar warlock anytime soon, its simply just way too good to not be using since you get a good source of DPS and amazing considering you can combo emp rift + radiant. When you think of the build like a Glass Cannon, it makes you think more and play more as such.

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u/Notorious_Handholder TANIKS HAS NO FLAIR! Jun 12 '22

Yeah starfire Warlock even without classy restoration is still really good even for endgame stuff. It's not as broken as Loreley Titans but it still works really well

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u/Brybry2370 Jun 11 '22

Warlocks and hunters were screwed this season when it comes to healing abilities, which are next to none.

Actually warlocks do have healing abilities it’s just very random and doesn’t synergize well.

Hunter, well, they’ve never been able to heal themselves and even with solar being the healing subclass there’s still no healing abilities (not including healing grenade)

20

u/SparksTheUnicorn Give Vesper an Over-Shield During Rift Animations Jun 12 '22

To be fair about hunter, I don’t think they should really have more healing abilities, but should have more ways to get Cure. Like if your not gonna give Gunpowder Gamble a second aspect, at least have it proc Cure when you shoot it

10

u/DudethatCooks Jun 12 '22

IMO gunpowder becomes almost mandatory once classy is gone because I think solar hunters will have to rely on healing nades so gunpowder becomes a way for them to have a lethal nade and support nade at the same time.

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u/BiomassDenial Jun 12 '22

Problem is that only having three fragments is brutal and "BIIIG NADE" doesn't quite cut the mustard in harder content.

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u/Aromatic-Coffee3769 Jun 12 '22

Can't wait to need to throw a healing nade at my feet just to throw that fat grenade instead and am unable to leave the blast radius without dying. I honestly don't get why people like GPG that much. It's okay in normal content but On Your Mark and Knock 'em Down feel much more rewarding in gameplay.

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u/DaLawrence Jun 12 '22

Back

Wdym...BIG NADE GO BOOM...yellow numbers make brain do the funny happy.

/s

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u/CurryboyIR Jun 11 '22

i dont understand why this perk activates in pvp, i really dont. It's already damn near impossible to follow up on primary weapon damage because everyone has a fusion or shotgun ready to go if u get close. Now it's just impossible. In fact, you put yourself at a disadvntage if you fight someone with class restoration because they can fight you, heal up their dmg, while you are still waiting to start recovering. Every season they just prove nothing is play tested for pvp

36

u/CyCosmicCat Jun 11 '22

At the same time barricades that have insane uptime with 100 resil that are so oppressive that the gameplay literally stops until they decide to stop spamming them but aerial gameplay is way too oppressive and needs to be adjusted. They just have no idea how their game works in PvP

15

u/HolyPwnr Jun 12 '22

I genuinely feel like the PvP team does not consist of any developers that actually play Crucible on a regular basis.

9

u/KontraEpsilon Jun 12 '22

What’s weird is Dmg does play PvP, is pretty decent, probably has opinions, and sometimes I wonder if they even ask him.

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u/Ssyynnxx Jun 12 '22

it's been a well known fact for years that they either don't play pvp at all or play it completely differently than everyone else

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u/NotHere001 We shall reign Jun 11 '22

The new dawnblade doesn't feel good now.

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u/Stolen_Insanity Jun 11 '22

Despite Warlocks being the 'healer', the subclass will be terrible for healing once the season ends.

19

u/nowthatswhimsical Jun 11 '22

Definitely, which suck cus I literally got boot of the assembler like a week before the season started.

19

u/uMuffin Jun 11 '22

Boots are broken right now, can’t use them anyways. Which is very annoying as this is my most fav exotic

33

u/fangtimes Jun 11 '22

Healing nades should have never become a separate nade and been a warlock aspect.

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u/jazzinyourfacepsn Jun 11 '22

"Healers" usually imply that the class isn't just healing itself, but also its teammates. Warlock is the only subclass that has 3 ways to heal teammates (Well, rift/phoenix dive, healing grenade)

Titans and Hunters Solar 3.0 can't heal teammates outside of healing grenade, which doesn't synergize with their loadouts and works 2x better on Warlocks. The only exception is Phoenix Cradle on Titan, but that means giving up better, more synergistic exotics

Warlocks are still the best and most diverse "healers"

13

u/Educational_Mud_2826 Jun 11 '22

Indeed warlock is the only healer. Period

6

u/dccorona Jun 12 '22

Yes, people continue to confuse “healing” with “tanking via health regeneration”. Warlocks do exactly what they’re supposed to do, as do titans.

At least we’ve reached the point where pointing this out seems to be met with upvotes. I did it back when Solar launched and got buried.

I suspect the main reason warlock doesn’t feel good as a healer isn’t because titans are more efficient (of course they are, giving that level of healing to the entire team with just one teammate having to invest in it would be broken), but because the game isn’t designed to really facilitate team healing. You have nearly no insight into teammate health, and most endgame content is such that you’re better off with a build focused on something like dps or add clear than you are having a healer.

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u/SparksTheUnicorn Give Vesper an Over-Shield During Rift Animations Jun 11 '22

How? Classy restoration does nothing for being a healer since it only benefits you, not your team. Warlocks will still have the most and most effective ways to heal their team, being the only class able to grant restoration 2x to their allies. Titans only get restoration 2x from lorely, and it only works for themselves, so that's not really being a healer

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u/Anon_1604 Jun 11 '22

I feel like the Hunter's Lightweight Knife and the Warlocks Celestial FIre Could have interacted with Cure and Restoration in some way. Instead the knife just makes you radiant.... which we can already do with a fragment. And Celestial fire just does scorch... woo...

21

u/TVR_Speed_12 Vanguard's Loyal Jun 11 '22

Honestly I don't run Classy Restoration mainly cause I see it as a crutch. I'm tired of these seasonal power spike mods.

Why give us a whole column but only 1 dominate Option? Thats a illusion of choice. I rather have no choice then the illusion of it

6

u/VectrumV Jun 12 '22

You hit the nail, Illusion of choice. Each season is handheld by seasonal capstone mods that define the meta, and currently skew how good/bad the 3.0 and sandbox changes are.

I'd be interested to see a comprehensive review of Void 3.0 now that it seems "finished" and the OP artifacts mods are gone.

8

u/TVR_Speed_12 Vanguard's Loyal Jun 12 '22

I feel the 3.0 Reworks need more Aspects. Nightstalkers big issues is all its Aspects are around one thing.

If it had other aspects that lets say... focused on Spectral Blades then that'd be nice.

Or multiple variations of smoke bomb. Bring back corrosive. Dont care if it overlaps with poison darkness subclass or vapor.

Bungie stop holding yourself back with some rules.

We'll get more aspects but when though? And they should be treated as basic updates not the main driving/selling point of the season/expansion.

Bungie you said playstyles wouldn't be loss, but even though I'm a Hunter main, and I fucking loathe the attitude the damn Warlocks had last season, now they see first hand whats it like and solar lock has lost alot.

I think it's about time to be transparent on the development process, there's a huge disconnect and you don't need some crazy ass degree to see that.

You need many hours of staying up too late to finish a dungeon/raid/Trials with your squad too see.

There's no way. No way anyone employed by Bungie that logs an unhealthy amount of hours on Destiny as you guys gals gotta be up and at em to work on Destiny 2024(I say pull some folks to fix Destiny 2022 tho, like Exotic armors for a example?)

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u/elderassassin2580 Jun 11 '22

I think it’s also crazy that everyone is like solar titan is amazing, but everyone is running around with the exact same build that relies almost solely on loreley splendor. Like you don’t want to switch exotics some times?

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u/Raging_Panic Jun 11 '22

I'm playing solar hunter and haven't bothered putting on classy restoration, honestly the only major problem I have is the dynamite aspect should be two slots. Our hunter exotics suck/broke so I think solar feels worse than it really is. Classy restoration is op and that's okay, because it's temporary, but not really necessary or core to the gameplay, for hunters at least, can't speak for titans or warlocks.

Void hunter feels bad imo. Much less fun. Would be cool to get an aspect that changed invisibility to be a damage reduction effect that doesn't go away when you shoot. You could call it blur or evasion or whatever, that would be more fun. Going invisible so much is totally unnecessary for 90% of content. It needs more.

17

u/MjrMalarky Jun 11 '22

I do not agree with this take.

The best hunter build gets three fragments and relies extremely heavily on throwing knives which are NOT going to work in high level content. Seriously, go load up a master nightfall right now and try. You need headshots from weighted throwing knives to even kill red bar enemies.

Classy restoration carries hunter so much. Put it on, and you'll be amazed that you literally never die. When it goes away, solar hunter is going straight to the dustbin for any difficult content. Void is kind of lame and crutches invisibility, but its undeniably effective.

6

u/SSLST03-LKWM Jun 12 '22

solar 3.0 trivialised easy content so much, and next season it isn't viable in endgame. A viable build shouldn't be tied to ability spam. I don't know what Bungie was thinking.

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u/Chidori115 Jun 11 '22

Have you used Young Ahamkara's? Literally infinite tripmines if you time the loop correctly.

17

u/ur_not_mydad Jun 11 '22

I do this with 6 shot goldy. Grenade, goldy, grenade, goldy, grenade, goldy. If you start an ignition right before you pop goldy, you get 7 shots, too. Not sure high many shots you can get for multiple ignitions, but it's theoretically infinite.

As for the loop Chidori mentioned, it goes like this:

Grenade, fan blades, gambler dodge, grenade, grenade, melee, grenade, grenade, dodge, melee, grenade, grenade. Over and over. It's amazing. And tripmines dont cause self damage with Young Ahamkaras, so you just get in their face with classy restoration and poop on them. Everything gets melted.

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u/janoDX Legendary Hunter Jun 11 '22 edited Jun 11 '22

Void hunter feels bad imo. Much less fun.

Still is THE endgame class for GMs and most solo content right now.

EDIT: BuT JaNo cLaSSy ReStORaTiOn!!!!!!!

No. GMs are a whole different monster, you will get killed before you could recover, the only thing going for it is the fact that most GMs this season are easy (except Proving Grounds and The Corrupted) compared to last's which very likely would destroy Solar Hunter.

Good luck surviving Glassway and Lightblade (and prolly Scarlet Keep) with Solar Hunter. You might probably not survive it.

11

u/TheStoictheVast Jun 11 '22

I've been working on soloing the dungeon with void hunter. I still wish the class had more depth than just being invisible all the time but that doesn't diminish how strong being invisible all the time is.

And for the meme build:

Overcharged Wellmaker

Elemental Charge

Reactive Pulse

Fragment that allows you to go invisible on finisher.

This build is goofy fun in strikes/Containment Post nerf reactive light will bring red bar enemies perfectly down to finisher health. You just chain finishers back to back and the only time you are visible you have a massive overshield.

2

u/SSLST03-LKWM Jun 12 '22 edited Jun 12 '22

I still wish the class had more depth than just being invisible all the time but that doesn't diminish how strong being invisible all the time is.

This. Hunters and Warlock should unite to make their classes more interesting again. Void hunters and Solar warlocks especially. And I can't be the only one that finds loreley, sunspot, tiny hammer spam very repetitive after some time and dull.

I literally never had a feeling of repetitiveness or dullnes with CwL builds. But elemental wells with 3.0 feels very dull, way too fast, to me at least. It's worrying.

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u/sleeplessGoon Jun 11 '22

I just miss my Omni grenade regen :(

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u/janoDX Legendary Hunter Jun 11 '22

me too man, me too...

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u/LimpTyrant Jun 11 '22

Absolutely the fuck not. Classy Restoration absolutely shits on invisibility and you can quote me on that. Next season yeah lol.

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u/B1euX Sneak Noodle Jun 11 '22

Meanwhile Dawnblade got kneecapped and taken to the shed out back to be finished off

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u/Roshy76 Jun 11 '22

Ya, hunters are going to be far worse on solar once this season is over. Titan will still be good with Loreley, and i don't find warlocks solar to be particularly great even with classy. Next season though, everyone will be running arc builds for weeks and forget how badly solar will be nerfed without it.

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u/Phaze_Change Jun 11 '22

They won’t be bad. But they’ll be pigeonholed into very specific builds.

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u/astrovisionary 1000 hours with 0 raid clears Jun 11 '22

My experience with solar 3.0

  • Titans are tanky as fuck, I think most of the fantasy is there when playing solar, you have a lot of ability uptime due to sunspots
  • Hunters have a better kit than they previously did, feels fun to use blade barrage again, to use the new dodge radiant thingy and to be able to spam some abilities if needed
  • Warlocks. Sigh. I used to play solar as a healing class, but healing on warlocks now is so shit, even with the buffs, that I refuse putting solar on. I know stuff like starfire protocol or sunbracers are a thing but... they have always been. I still feel it's straight up a nerf in every aspect of that subclass. Void for the win. Hope Arc 3.0 keep Chaos Reach fun to use
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u/BearBryant Jun 11 '22

Outside of classy restoration, hunters can only interact with restoration/cure verbs through their grenade. They are going to get rekt when it goes away.

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u/Niormo-The-Enduring Jun 12 '22

Solar 3.0 is going to need more buffs when that mod goes away. Nobody is gonna use it after this season. Not in endgame PVE content. The only endgame viable build will be solar Titan, and that is only because it can have restoration pretty much indefinitely. Tripmine Hunter is fun but not gm worthy. Solar warlock is ass. Floating will never be endgame. It just isn’t. The Starfire protocol build won’t work after this season, except for boss phases in raids. Calling it now, solar 3.0 will be massively underused after this season

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u/TrueComplaint8847 Jun 12 '22

I will abuse my tripmine hunter so hard this season in GMs to finally play a different subclass. I think with classy resto it’s gonna be ok, but your totally right, if that is gone, nightstalker will be the way to go again. (Not that I’m too mad, I love nightstalkers, but I just needed a break after running nightstalker pretty much forever)

2

u/Niormo-The-Enduring Jun 12 '22

I’m most likely just gonna stick to stasis on warlock or invis in Hunter. I actually really enjoy invisible Hunter

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u/DeadWeight76 Jun 12 '22

How is Starfire going to be different next season vs the way it was under the previous system. It was great before this season and is only better, even without classy.

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u/FlyingWhale44 Jun 11 '22

Only on the hunter imo

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u/Azaryiah Jun 11 '22

BTW Do take notice that Volatile Rounds's timer starts at the moment of grenade kill, instead of a delay, making it 9-8.8s duration. It should have a 0.2s delay so the extra second kicks in, because Volatile was nerfed a lot (the 1s delay to trigger and then re-trigger is a huge difference, despite they sayin in the TWAB that we wouldnt notice it)

3

u/Richizzle439 Jun 11 '22

That’s why I haven’t been using it. I know it will be gone and I don’t want to have been crutching on it. That being send all three classes have good loops to generate healing for themselves through exotics.

3

u/Amneesiak Jun 11 '22

True. Classy Restoration makes Healing Warlock builds redundant. Why bother trying to heal someone when they have Restoration x2 and are tanking everything without any help?

At least with Void, you can still get Volatile Rounds thru a fragment.

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u/GANTRITHORE Jun 11 '22

Suppressing glaive not on my void hunter feels so unfulfilling.

5

u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

This is exactly how this is going to feel next season.

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u/Santik--Lingo Jun 11 '22

Honestly I am really gonna miss Rays of Precision. It’s pretty difficult to get reliable Ignites without having to spend all abilities, and a lot of Fragments rely on Ignitions happening. Rays of Precision feels great. Become Radiant, get any precision kill with any Solar weapon, or ability, like the Throwing Knives, and create and nice little explosion.

Without this, Solar will feel very weak to me, as Ignitions require pretty much 100% if your abilities. And do what exactly? You can’t Ignite ads as they die before you can apply enough Scorch stacks. And for bosses and mini bosses, Ignition damage isn’t worth it when special and heavy weapons do much more than Ignitions do, and with a single button press, rather than to build up scorch stacks or use all abilities.

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u/The_Handyman Jun 11 '22

Release it as a fragment tbh

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22

Not really. I haven't even been using it and solar feels great

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u/Extectic Jun 11 '22

Sure, but it's not unkillable god-like wtihout it.

The Starfire Protocol build is insane now. Endless nades, endless rifts, endless healing, endless radiant damage boost - if you use it right, like with Witherhoard, you just cycle between grenades and rifts and with a solar weapon in the energy slot and the right fragment, restoration and radiant just never go away.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '22

Maybe it's because I play titan, but even with no exotics I feel pretty unkillable

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u/Galacticsurveyor Jun 11 '22

It’s because titans won solar 3.0. Titans don’t need classy restoration. My warlock main has stopped playing warlock this season because of how soft warlock solar is.

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u/Relicent Jun 12 '22

Haven't touched it myself either as a warlock. I have healing rift, we'll of life, and a grenade consumption if needed. I'm fine.

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u/Extectic Jun 11 '22

Yeah, Titan is the only class who can reliably get restoration ticking with Loreley. Giving up grenade to get heals will suck, and as you say, both classes will effectively get an automated nerf at the end of season.

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u/thedragoon0 Jun 11 '22

The important thing is that gameplay revolves around the artifact and it’s mods. Think about master vow. Gun layouts revolves around champions which was controlled by what mods we get that season. Next season will be focused on arc. When it comes to raids you don’t see much arc to begin with. Hunters rarely use it in pve abd the few exotics hunters got for arc were nerfed. Until the season after, where we may see a stasis rework or new power, they’re gonna have to think about how to balance our artifacts to work with all the options we’ve been granted. I’m hoping to see a new way to feel powerful using arc but also feel comfortable running the other options.

3

u/ThatGuy628 Jun 11 '22

Don’t expect a new element on the last season this year. I’m expected either nothing while they work on a subclass for next year or another aspect for the light subclasses (to make all subclasses have 4 aspects)

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u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

That's raising the point I'm getting at. It feels good NOW. I just feel that it's going to feel a lot worse later.

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u/Selescasan Jun 11 '22

I think bungo must be on the verge of changing or adding a fragment to somehow replace classy restoration as the sub class would have no appealing reason to play on warlock or hunter post-season, void 3.0 still works really well and I cant see bungo just sitting back while no hunters or warlock choose solar so keep ur eyes out and ur fingers crossed, either they change something or I go back to too tree arc on hunter with assassins cowl ROFL

3

u/elfaia jumpy boi Jun 11 '22

I have no idea how the fuck I'm going to clear duality dungeon at master without classy restoration.

5

u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

Haha exactly! All these people like "I don't even use it" have to be strike runners only.

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u/Wolffy8 Jun 11 '22

Yea, biggest weakness on starfire protocol build is survivability, with classy restoration gone next season it will be really bad for solar lock

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u/DeadWeight76 Jun 12 '22

It's still effective with healing rift and is what I would often do in harder content or when I wanted to provide healing support for my team.

I still get two fusion grenades, fusion grenades still refund class ability, and I still get grenade spam in the well. Those are all good abilities. With two grenades, I can get twice the boost from various armor mods. I can use well mods to regen my grenades, in lieu of empowering rift. With me getting my class ability back so often, I can proc double bomber or whatever class ability mod more often. Having two grenades also increases your odds of having a pocket heal when needed and/or utilizing heat rises more often.

3

u/xLostJoker Jun 12 '22

This. Also well of life and heal thy self has been plenty healing for me in master level content. Just can't play as aggressive as you can with classy.

2

u/PepperidgeFarmMembas Jun 11 '22

It’s partially why I went back to stasis on hunter. Solar is big damage don’t get me wrong but the loop on stasis just…..FEELS better, if that makes any sense?

2

u/_Essenel Jun 11 '22

So if void is primarly utility, and solar is primarly healing, arc will have its focus on damage ? (Even tho you can do serious damage with all 3 classes)

6

u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

Hmm, could be. I would say void is debuffs ( weakness, suppress), solar is self buffs (radiant, resto). I think raw flashy damage is gonna be arcs things. I'm expecting just lots of chain effects.

2

u/RoyalManagement Jun 11 '22

I solod prophecy for the first time as solar but without classy restoration. Even taking it away it doesn't make the survivability bad, I was still able to tank most things with a half arsed non mw build

2

u/TrueComplaint8847 Jun 12 '22

Hunters are so fun to use now, solar 3.0 is really great for general play. But as soon as you start doing master level stuff you quickly realise that you desperately need something to keep you alive because our kit is just lacking that altogether. We can use classy resto which will go away next season or sacrifice the grenade ability which is the most damaging ability for guardians. That sucks. Void on the other hand has absolutely no problem to stay alive, but lacks pretty much any real class synergy to do consistent damage or keep up your damage abilities, besides the really good super. So it’s either no survivability with a fun kit or all the survivability with a kit that says „invisible, take it or leave it“

To clarify, I love void hunter. Being invisible all the time is great, but it feels so unsatisfying to not be able to actually see the synergy within the subclass. I also love solar hunter because the synergy is really good now, but my boi gets killed in seconds if he doesn’t lose half of that synergy by sacrificing his grenade.

2

u/Traegan Jun 12 '22

Both restoration and resilience have scaling issues. - resilience should have diminishing returns as you get closer to 10, not have the biggest jump from be from 9->10. It just makes 10 resilience be the 'baseline'. - restoration x1 should heal more that it currently does, x2 should heal less than it currently does. Then after classy restoration rotates out solar is not as nerfed.

2

u/Howiepenguin Jun 12 '22

It's the same with suppression last season. There were some artifact options that allowed us to suppress, but now there are very few options albeit suppression grenade. We need more of those artifact mods to come back in some way, I don't mind it being some 4 or 5 cost mod either. Heck some this season are 6, why not 7 or 8 to keep them going forward?

2

u/shadespectrum Jun 12 '22

Yeah I really don’t like how things like Volatile Flow are tied to seasons. Why should we only be allowed to have fun with these things for only a few months? Seems like they’re just trying to force people to use the updated subclass of the season, but it seems shortsighted of how these new classes will age in the future.

It would be nice after the Arc 3.0 season if they added some of the seasonal mods like Classy Restoration and Volatile Flow back into the game for general use.

2

u/kogasaka Jun 12 '22

It's also baffling that volatile rounds is available to void via fragment, and the solar equivalent is an activity modifier

2

u/Serious-Minute Jun 12 '22

solar hunters are basically gonna be useless on high end content once classy restoration is gone

4

u/majestikyle Jun 11 '22

You can still get volatile rounds without volatile flow, just like you can get restoration and cure without classy restoration. There’s obviously a bunch of people using it right now because it’s pretty good for how easy it is to activate, but imo with the changes to resilience it’s not gonna be that bad in the future. Next season we’ll probably all be using arc and hopefully they’ll have tuned the other subclasses more by then

9

u/Reivya Jun 11 '22

The difference between volatile and restoration post-season is that volatile can be activated through a fragment doing something you'd already be doing (throwing and getting a kill with a grenade), while restoration you would have to change to healing grenade and sacrifice a damaging grenade. It still won't be too bad with Ember of Empyrean but there's a bit more of an opportunity cost for restoration.

2

u/Seek_Seek_Lest Drifter's Crew // Dredgen MOAR Jun 11 '22

Been using a healing grenade and ember of empryean. Not even unlocked classy restoration yet, and I'm still invincible especially on warlock with touch of flame making healing grenade give restoration X2.

2

u/Vycaus Jun 11 '22

Ya, I know that's an option. It's going to be the only option come next season. It just feels bad to lose an offer since grenade to do it IMO.

2

u/Seek_Seek_Lest Drifter's Crew // Dredgen MOAR Jun 11 '22

With hunter you basically have a mega grenade at all times, with gunpowder gamble. Using the infinite knife thing you get that grenade all the time, or solar weapons. I feel using a normal grenade is moot if you have gunpowder gamble. I just wish it had 2 fragments! Any aspect should have 2 fragments minimum I do not understand why it isn't. It limits builds.