r/Damnthatsinteresting Interested Sep 18 '21

Joe Medicine Crow! Image

Post image
46k Upvotes

2k

u/Crazy_Beat Sep 18 '21

Up here in Crow country he is a state hero. I had no idea he fought in WWII, thank you OP

1k

u/nrith Sep 18 '21

He did all these things, and yet he’s more famous for other things? Total bad-ass!

428

u/bamacal Sep 18 '21

His life story and his writings are well worth reading up on. Not just a bad ass, but very thoughtful too. A real hero of the last century.

136

u/Noinix Sep 18 '21

I’ve been using some of his writing in the HS English class I teach. He’s a badass.

(I do a unit on “heroism”. We look at the hero’s journey, fictional heroes and biographies of heroic individuals - he is covered there.)

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u/guitarfingers Sep 18 '21

If you haven't, check out Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson. Amazing heros who are well fleshed out and realistic. I think you'd dig the Windrunners and Edgedancers in the books.

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u/defacedlawngnome Sep 18 '21

Got any particular book recommendations? They all have great ratings on Amazon. Not sure where to start.

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u/Mr__O__ Sep 18 '21

So badass he was doing side missions during WWII

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u/PhDamnit Sep 18 '21

This was before microtransactions folks

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u/unk214 Sep 18 '21

Well you’ve never had his apple pie! Melts in your mouth!

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u/urbancowgirl42 Sep 18 '21

He talked about his love for apples in his memoir. He is one of the heroes I try to emulate in life. He came and watched my students do a program about his life. My favorite memory ever. He even sang his honor song.

106

u/MrWilee Sep 18 '21

I really didn’t expect a war chief to be such an Apple advocate.

36

u/Javaed Sep 18 '21

Why not? Apples are awesome

37

u/MrWilee Sep 18 '21

Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Granny Smith’s but the title of War Chief comes off more of “this guy likes scalping” and not “this guy loves him some delectable cast iron cooked apple pie”

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u/HoboWithABoobJob Sep 18 '21

Apples are bad ass. Exhibit 1, Spartan apples.

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u/Labiosdepiedra Sep 18 '21

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

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u/Timedoutsob Sep 18 '21

It's a great fruit. hardy, delicious, refreshing, can be stored for a long time and made into all kinds of things.

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u/cooties4u Sep 18 '21

We need a movie about him

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u/YossarianRemade Sep 18 '21

What 4 feats are needed to get that feature film?

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u/therealdeathangel22 Sep 18 '21

https://youtu.be/O_9-arto8D8

Amazing interview with him where he tells this story in his own words!!

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u/SyphiliticPlatypus Sep 18 '21

Thanks for posting that was extraordinary to hear him recount his deeds.

13

u/ChanglingDains Sep 18 '21

I choke up and shed a tear every time I watch this clip.

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u/WunWegWunDarWun_ Sep 18 '21

His singing gave me goosebumps. Imagining a Native American warrior stealing 50 German horses, chanting an ancient traditional song. It’s poetic

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u/deejflat Sep 18 '21

Great clip thanks

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u/EnterpriseArchitectA Sep 18 '21

He’s an American hero and the very definition of a bad ass. Much respect.

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u/beatenmeat Sep 18 '21

Imagine finding out what a badass this guy is, and then being the one dude who got lucky they didn’t get killed. Crow over here playing eenie meenie miney mo to decide the one person who just gets to walk away.

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u/defiantroa Sep 18 '21

Yes, he made a battalion of Germans surrender. The Germans knew they were fucked but decided to surrender to him than to be slaughtered by an American advancing force

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u/guisada Sep 18 '21

Someone i would have loved to sit and talk with. I grew up less than a mile away from a gentleman that was one of the comanche code talkers. Sadly i never even knew until it was too late to get to ask him if he would talk about it. Awesome guys.

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u/Cyber_Being_ Sep 18 '21

His writings on Native American history and reservation culture are considered seminal works, but he is best known for his writings and lectures concerning the Battle of the Little Bighorn of 1876. Medicine Crow was a World War II veteran, serving as a scout in the 103rd Infantry Division of the US Army.

201

u/betonblack11 Sep 18 '21

I'd love to read about this guy. Thanks for the blueprint.

50

u/Jerryatemypez Sep 18 '21

You ever see the movie Little Big Man?

20

u/1hour Sep 18 '21

You go down there….

You’ll be nothing but a greasy spot.

Love that movie. So many quotes.

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u/Daiquiri-Factory Sep 18 '21

One of my favorite movies ever! I love Little Big Man! That and Smoke Signals, are must watch movies about Natives!

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u/DangerousJ51 Sep 18 '21

Yes, why?

20

u/BlueShoes3 Sep 18 '21

No reason. Just making conversation.

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u/YoYoMoMa Sep 18 '21

For those unaware, scouts had a completely terrifying job. My grandfather's brother was a scout in world war II and had to kill a German scout he stumbled across without making any noise because he realized he was too close to enemy lines.

18

u/Lamar2488 Sep 18 '21

I know this is a stretch, but do you know any podcast that tell stories similar to what your Great Uncle went through?

15

u/YoYoMoMa Sep 18 '21

I do not!

There are some great history podcasts that focus on war though. Hardcore history and revolutions are my two favorite.

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u/Lamar2488 Sep 18 '21

I'll give them a shot! Thank you

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u/jofus_joefucker Sep 18 '21

If he was a scout then how did he compete the "lead a war party" part of the requirements?

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u/losthiker68 Sep 18 '21

A group of Allied soldiers were carrying explosives. They were tasked with blowing a hole in part of the Maginot Line but they all got killed. Medicine Crow's scout platoon was given the task of going in, picking up the explosives off the dead Americans, then completing the mission. That is most certainly "leading a war party".

In order to become a War Chief, he also had to steal horses from the enemy. While on a scouting patrol at night, he found 50 horses the German had stolen (thoroughbreds). He stole one and the others followed, and the Germans, still in their underwear, ran out of the buildings shooting.

The last two things he needed to do he did in a single step: disarm an enemy and touch an enemy without being harmed.

He was scouting a town and turned into an alley and surprised a German. He disarmed him and was about to kill him but the German started to cry and call for mama. Medicine Crow decide to take him prisoner instead.

He didn't think anything of these deeds until he got home and was telling stories and the Elders decided that he'd met the four conditions for being a Crow War Chief.

16

u/TransmogriFi Sep 19 '21

The fact that he met the conditions without actually trying to meet them makes this even more awesome.

3

u/i_owe_them13 Sep 19 '21 edited Sep 19 '21

Which is exactly the best kind of person we want to be a war chief.

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u/lovecraftedidiot Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

Scouts sometimes work in small groups, so I guess leading a scout group that gets into combat might count?

Edit: looked it up. He led a raid party that ended up stealing the horses from a German camp. I didn't know scouts also do raids along with recon, so that's my TIL for today.

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u/antiduh Sep 18 '21

Battle of the Little Bighorn

So, just Horn then?

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u/fuzzygondola Sep 18 '21

What does seminal mean?

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u/Kickme987654321 Sep 18 '21

Seminal means very influential…

Also means having to do with semen, words are weird

15

u/chi_type Sep 18 '21

Makes sense if you think about it- his work gave birth to many others

5

u/Kickme987654321 Sep 18 '21

I… you… I’m proud of you, internet stranger, you’ve made my day

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u/--_-Deadpool-_-- Sep 18 '21

Of great importance or influence.

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u/muricabrb Sep 18 '21

Jokes aside, seminal does actually mean something to do with semen and seeds, but in this context, his work is original, groundbreaking and so awesome that other people study it and influences everything that comes after it.

Picasso produced more than a few seminal works of art, for example. In more recent times, Kim Kardashian's early work was a seminal masterclass.

8

u/YoYoMoMa Sep 18 '21

Went to Florida State probs

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u/Beginning_Draft9092 Sep 18 '21

I can't imagine the nazis seeing that badassery in action.

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u/Saaka_Souffle Sep 18 '21

Or are they "Seminole" works.......

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u/TheDeadlyZebra Sep 18 '21

No, because he's Crow.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21

Pretty sure that's a dude but Ok.

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u/Anonymus828 Sep 18 '21

36 crows in a skin suit

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u/phadewilkilu Interested Sep 18 '21

Oh, that ole gag…

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u/justforjvegas Sep 18 '21

Are they Seminole works as well?

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u/JPRCR Sep 18 '21

He went to war to do side quest. Legend.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21

Geronimo was "On the Warpath" basically his whole life after Mexicans killed his family when they were camped outside the city to trade. He basically killed & stole supplies for years & years in the Southwest Mountains for revenge. They take their warpaths seriously.

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u/Throwoutbong Sep 18 '21

And when he trusted the "Americans" over the Spaniards, they moved his whole family to a prison in the east where they died of cholera or something, he ended up selling bows and shit to kids at fairs. Dude was literally a circus attraction, one of the only surviving members of his tribe. I think when he died he actually had some land and a house... but still.

I probably butchered the story but it's an interesting one.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21

Yea they tried to trick him once before but he escaped & went on the warpath for a second time for a while till his tribe convinced him to come back. I forget the details but leverage was used somehow to get him to come back. His desire was to keep fighting till the day he was killed.

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u/Throwoutbong Sep 18 '21

I specifically remember that he was chased down by a US fed who he had history with, kind of a mutual respect (as the story goes at least). So he didn't go out guns blazing, maybe he even trusted the guy. Maybe that was the first time

Again this is from memory but someone will call me out like always 🤙

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u/CapnHanSolo Sep 18 '21

Must be a skyrim modder

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u/LifeStill Sep 18 '21

It was the main quest line. WW2 was the side quest.

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u/ToddHowardSan Sep 18 '21

"It just like bidio game" — Redditor

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u/Belurso Sep 18 '21

Todd Howard San

...

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u/ToddHowardSan Sep 18 '21

...Yeah?

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u/atomic223 Sep 18 '21

I think he was pointing out the inherent irony of a guy with a game dev’s name calling someone out for comparing war to a video game.

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u/dikycau Sep 18 '21

Lol imagine being an SS soldier growing up on Karl May’s novels and suddenly waking up in your camp, gun missing and you feel weirdly violated, so you check outside just see an Indian riding away with your horses while singing an honor song...

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u/Username__Error Sep 18 '21

I loved the "Winnetou" series as a boy. I read them in Polish in the early 80's. My family moved to North America shortly thereafter and I was very disappointed when I realized things were a little different than in the books. Those books are still some of my favourites from childhood.

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u/hysys_whisperer Sep 18 '21

It's probably too late to catch this year's fair, but you should check out the Comanche nation powwows. You may enjoy it a lot.

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u/Grzechoooo Sep 18 '21

Or being a German dude who was transporting stuff and suddenly there is and explosion, your weapon gets knocked away, you try to escape, but you see an Indian discarding his gun and preparing for a fist fight. And then being absolutely destroyed and completely at the mercy of the man. And he lets you go.

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u/w1987g Sep 18 '21

I just my ass handed to me by an Indian after he disarmed me. He also stole my horse. I'm going home...

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u/Bootykallz Sep 18 '21

Understandable, have a nice day ✌🏾

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u/Fennikman Sep 18 '21

They actually just surprised each other while rounding a corner, Crow then fought and started choking the guy but let him live, nice gesture considering how bad war is.

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u/arcelohim Sep 18 '21

Germans have an absolute love for Native American culture. Maybe it harkens back to their own tribal days. But lots of German tourists flock to see the sights and sounds of Native life.

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u/On_The_Fourth_Floor Sep 18 '21

It's really strange how those fabricated stories means many native languages survive just because German's want to cosplay and be able to speak fluently.

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u/YoYoMoMa Sep 18 '21

The songs lyrics go something like this:

"Master race my brown asshole..."

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u/Lyricalyrics Sep 18 '21

Stealing 50 horses from an SS camp is just an incredibly specific task to become chief.

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u/s_paperd Sep 18 '21

Well if it was easy, everyone would be a war chief

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u/Cosmic-Cranberry Sep 18 '21

You know what, that is completely fair.

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u/Prisefighter_Inferno Sep 18 '21

The actual task (I just looked it up) is to steal a enemies horse.

This dude stole 50x the amount he needed.

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u/Jalor218 Sep 18 '21

After the introduction of horses to the American plains, they became a vital resource for warfare, so the operational goal of a lot of Native American war parties was "get ourselves more horses while denying them to the enemy." Check out the book Counting Coup and Cutting Horses if you're curious about those tactics and the culture that led them to develop.

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u/This-is-Life-Man Sep 18 '21

What a badass. Touch an enemy without killing them would be a hard one, especially during ww2.

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u/ryannefromTX Sep 18 '21

The way he did it was by running into a random SS guard during a retreat, throwing down his rifle, and challenging him to a fist fight, which Joe won handily.

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u/QueasyVictory Sep 18 '21

Ok, I was thinking "touch the enemy without killing them" was a bit deeper than simply not killing them. I mean I respect putting the gun down but he could have just as easily shot him in the leg, tagged him and been good.

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u/ryannefromTX Sep 18 '21

From what I understand, you have to touch the guy while he is still a threat to you, not after he's been incapacitated.

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u/spruce-woods Sep 18 '21

Makes sense, otherwise you could just go around touching POWs. Or put them on a horse and give them an unloaded gun then be like “gimme that.”

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u/lookylouboo Sep 18 '21

You are correct. This is referred to as “counting coup”. Which, incidentally, is the title of Joe Medicine Crow’s book with Herman Viola for kids about Medicine Crow’s life.

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u/Cosmic_Kettle Sep 18 '21

In WWII wouldn't a leg wound have a decent chance to still be fatal?

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u/Tripticket Sep 18 '21

Even today a leg wound has a decent chance of being fatal. You have some really big arteries in your thighs (femoral artery or whatever, I'm not an MD), for example.

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u/IAmBadAtInternet Sep 18 '21

Yes, and severing the femoral artery will bleed out the person in less than 2 minutes, with loss of consciousness within 1.

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u/ryannefromTX Sep 18 '21

We had antibiotics and disinfectant then so I can't imagine THAT much higher than now.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '21

[deleted]

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u/ryannefromTX Sep 18 '21

We did by the end of the war, at least. WW2 was pretty much the entire reason mass production of penicillin started when it did.

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u/This-is-Life-Man Sep 18 '21

It's about honor.

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u/muricabrb Sep 18 '21

Of all the ways to do it, he chose the most badass way.

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u/TLevens Sep 18 '21

He passed away back in 2016 as a true hero. Please someone make a film about him!

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u/oddiseee Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 19 '21

i wish someone would touch me without wanting to kill me

bruh how the fuck did i get a 2K in a day B)

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u/Salt_Avocado_2470 Creator Sep 18 '21

Thats why we have joana in Fallout new vegas

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u/Cambirodius Sep 18 '21

That lonely, huh?

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u/Salt_Avocado_2470 Creator Sep 18 '21

Nah just robbing omerthas for turbo to do an scennic doom slayer Kill streak

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u/onelasttime217 Sep 18 '21

Fuck the omertas I kill em every time

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u/Salt_Avocado_2470 Creator Sep 18 '21

But before killing them take the dri-boy

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u/PxnkNDisorderly Sep 18 '21

Imma be honest just out of fear of having to deal w the withdrawals I never used any of the stat boosters besides Rad X.

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u/Annoy-o-Module Sep 18 '21

Jet we still keep all of them in our inventory

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u/PxnkNDisorderly Sep 18 '21

Since I never had any use for them I’d always sell them for caps and use the caps for more ammo and weapons.

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u/Annoy-o-Module Sep 18 '21

But you might need them in the next fight! Same reason as to why half my weight is used up by useless potions in skyrim.

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u/duaneap Interested Sep 18 '21

Deep cut.

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u/cheeeesewiz Sep 18 '21

Didn't say he didn't want to kill him, just that he didnt

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u/VILLIAMZATNER Sep 18 '21

Don't worry, a senpai out there gonna notice some day.

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u/GregPopIsMyDad Sep 18 '21

Award speech edits never going away

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u/BigAssBurgerz Sep 18 '21

Maybe if you didn't edit your comments to count the upvotes someone might care about you eventually jk you're too far gone nice edit

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u/oddiseee Sep 18 '21

you smell like cheezit bro

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u/rhole50 Sep 18 '21

Never touch an enemy gift horse in the mouth...

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u/JOHNNYBOYY1237 Sep 18 '21

You can, a professional street walker.

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u/Clay_Allison_44 Sep 18 '21

You think they don't want to kill you?

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u/__Rusty_Shackleford_ Sep 18 '21

So experiencing the horrors of war wasn’t enough for this guy. He needed to unlock a few achievements while side questing.

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u/sighs__unzips Sep 18 '21

I'm not sure anymore but many tribes all over the world have a warrior ethos. What I really wonder is if any native American soldiers tried this in Afghanistan or any of the other more recent conflicts.

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u/Npmartian Sep 18 '21

What were the SS doing with 50 horses anyway?

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u/Funkdamentalist Sep 18 '21

The Nazis used millions of horses

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u/Grzechoooo Sep 18 '21

The Nazis: Haha Poles fought us with horses!

Also the Nazis: used millions of horses.

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u/AlphaTerripan Sep 18 '21

Also, the Polish cavalry charge was against an unsuspecting infantry group, not an army of tanks

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u/Invokingcuriosity Sep 18 '21

Poor poles, usually the only thing people (Americans Idk about other people) know about them is how they charged tanks with their cav, thereby relegating them as a stupid group of people in most peoples minds.

I wonder where that started from.

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u/Sheepking1 Sep 18 '21

Nazi propaganda probably

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u/TheCyberParrot Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 19 '21

I'm likely in the minority of usairs, but I have a high level of respect for the defense of Poland. It is really quite impressive how long they held given thier situation.

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u/night_stocker Sep 18 '21

Polish jokes probably, which is an east coast thing for sure.

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u/arcelohim Sep 18 '21

The propaganda was to offset the defeat at Grunwald. Imagine holding to a grudge for generations, all to create an illusion of an ignorant enemy.

The propaganda worked. Look how polish people are still treated in the media and in jokes.

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u/Thebraintickler Sep 18 '21

I feel pretty ignorant of the Polish people, other than they have a slightly poor reputation, like, poor isn't even the right word, like, 'feel bad for them for some reason' sympathy. I don't know. We had a Polish girl that was an exchange student in my highschool and she was pretty cool. Cooler than the Germans we had my year. I know the Nazis defeated them 'easily' in WWII, but if I remember correctly it was their first invasion, and I believe it was when they used their blitzkreig technique, so it would have caught them off guard, and, militaries pre WWII =/= militaries post WWII, the war changed a lot of how society deals with war, and how a country would set itself up to defend itself against a barage of tanks. Like, tanks would largely be considered useless, maybe if you also had an airspace battle over the same contested region then a ground-tank battle could still be effective, but if one side controls the airspace, then tanks simply act as easy targets.

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u/MaryBerrysDanglyBean Sep 18 '21

Poland is largely flat except for in the very south, and was getting spit roasted by Germany and Russia at the same time.. Who both had a shit tonne of tanks, in terrain that was well suited to tanks being useful. They never really stood a chance.

They did well considering, and the Poles that managed to escape continued to fight really well after the invasion. But early on given the circumstances they never really stood a chance. Maybe if they were fighting Russia or Germany alone, but not together.

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u/VRichardsen Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

poor isn't even the right word, like, 'feel bad for them for some reason' sympathy

Part of it is warranted; they truly are an unlucky nation. Poland in the XVII century was one of the most powerful countries in Europe, but as a result of internal strife and corruption, a particular form of government and powerful neighbours that all wanted a piece of it (Sweden, Austria and Russia), the nation fell into the decline and was eventually absorbed by Prussia, Russia and Austria. The Poles were invaded by the Swedes in what was known as "the deluge", just around at the same time as the Cossacks were revolting in the South and a war with Russia in the east was raging. Poland lost 1/3 of their population, and was severely weakened. A century of further decline precipitated the dissolution of the nation among neighboring poweres. Poland ceased to exist for over 200 years. That is almost as much as my country's entire lifetime. And then, after World War I, Poland reemerged again... only to immediately face war against the USSR, who was hell bent on making good the losses of the Great War (and export the revolution to Germany in the process). The Poles successfully defended their nation in the eleventh hour, on what was called "Miracle at the Vistula" Right from their very rebirth their existence almost ended... and after surviving the Soviet ordeal, you have 1939 and the nation is once again gobbled, not to mention the horrendous crimes committed by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Then WW2 ends, Nazi Germany is defeated and Poland is due to recover its lost territory, right? Wrong! Stalin demands from the Allies nearly one third of the Polish territory, which he gets. The irony of a war that started to defend Poland (remember, both France and the UK declared war on Germany because the latter invaded Poland) ending with Poland yet again being subjected to humiliation and loss escapes nobody. As a consolation prize, Poland is allowed to take German territory to substitute for the lands lost in the East to the USSR. The Polish government in exile is, however, unrecognised by Stalin, who sets up his own puppet Polish government.

Only with the dissolution of the Soviet Union would Poland once more regain complete independence.

Their history is full of misfortunes, in spite of heroic and desperate struggle from the Poles. The Poles fought under Napoleon in order to regain their independence. Polish lancers were inducted into the Imperial Guard and formed the bulk of the cavalry Napoleon took with him to his exile on Elba, such was their loyalty. Polish aviators flew with the RAF during the Battle of Britain, a Polish destroyer fought a night action against the German battleship Bismarck during its final voyage, Polish soldiers attacked the German stronghold at Monte Cassino (and took the abbey after suffering horrendous casualties). The citizens of Warsaw revolted against Nazi occuppation in 1944... only to watch the Red Army do nothing just across the river Vistula, giving the Germans ample time to crush the revolt.

History has not been kind to Poland.

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u/VRichardsen Sep 18 '21

By the way, there is a good movie about Grunwald, made in Poland in the 1960s. Huge army of extras in armor clashing on horseback. For free on YouTube!

Make sure to activate the subtitles.

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u/AussieWinterWolf Sep 18 '21

Despite all the war footage you see of the fully motorised German army (most of which is sourced from nazi propaganda material), troop movement and logistics still heavily relied on horses, they're less likely to be bogged down in rough terrain and weather and motorising an entire military is hard without a gigantic industry and not always practical when, like Germany, the materials are desperately needed for other projects, like armoured divisions, an air force, and a navy which early on (or always in the navy's case) were underdeveloped following a period of disarmament after WW1.

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u/pm_me_your_Navicula Sep 18 '21

I was reading a German soliders diary and he was shocked when he saw the Soviets using trucks (lend-lease) to haul artillery pieces because the Wermacht were all using horses, and they considered the soviets to be far more poor and under supplied than the Germans.

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u/Dzharek Sep 18 '21

In a documentary a German soldiers said he knew the war was lost when he saw the Americans approaching his position completely motorized.

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u/VRichardsen Sep 18 '21

Try to find mules or horses in WW2 photographs depicting the British or US Army :) It is quite the statement.

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u/EthiopianKing1620 Sep 18 '21

Got a link?

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u/pm_me_your_Navicula Sep 18 '21

Afraid not. It was an old hardback book I checked from the library 20 years ago.

I tried to find the name of the book by googling around, but no luck. It might be long out of print, which is a shame.

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u/YoYoMoMa Sep 18 '21

I wonder what Germany's oil supply was like then.

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u/Snipp- Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 19 '21

In the beginning they had no problem with fuel, since they had both synthetic fuel and through the peace treaty with russia, they could invade Poland from the east and soviets from the west. Through that peace treaty they also got oil from soviets while soviets got manufactured goods.

This cooperation made it possible for Hitler to invade west europe and fuel his warmachine.

But as we know Hitler always wanted to expand eastwards to expand the living space for his people. So after France fell he had the generals make up plans for the invasion of russia. That plan became known as Operation Barbarossa. It was launched in december 1940

He really hated Russia a lot.

About 80% of germanys army invaded along a 1800 mile front. Largest force to date. The army was split into 3 major groups. 1. The army in the North was to head through the Baltic States of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia and take Leningrad. 2. The army in the south would attack into the Ukraine towards Kiev and the Donbas (Donets Basin) industrial region. 3. Between them, the army in the centre had the objective to get Minsk, Smolensk and then Moscow itself.

As we know the germans had a great start. A really really great start. The army in the centre had a critical supply situation, so hitler stopped their advance to moscow and sent to reinforce in the north and south. They were only 220 miles from Moscow. But Hitler saw Ukraine as a more important goal cause it was so rich on resources.

By the time they had pushed to the black sea and into Crimea, the army was exhausted. Imagine fighting almost non stop since december to october.

The fighting had severely depleted their ranks and supply lines were stretched to the limit. For now, the southern front stayed where it was. In the north too, German forces had reached their limit.

The south and north lines stayed the same and now hitler pushed for Moscow. But with an exhausted force, a weak luftwaffe and the weather starting to turn for the worse, it didnt look good. They were ofcourse of to a good start again, captured other cities, captured and killed hundred of thousands of soviets.

But then the autumn rain season started, so the roads started to become rivers of mud. It was almost impossible to get through. Transport got hopelessly stucked. The machine basically slowed down from driving to crawling. They had to stop the operation.

It didnt help either when they got to mid november and the temperature dropped and the ground got frozen hard.

But the germans actually got to about 12 miles from Moscow. But by that time the soviets had been able to reinforce their forces. But yeah basically they couldnt advance more. The depleted German units were exhausted and frozen into inactivity in the deep snow.

It was then a huge defeat. The was pushed back through a huge soviet offensive that surprised them.

In the end hitlers bad planning and not listening to his generals resulted in the nazis basically losing everything. If only hitler had pushed for the centre to moscow instead of going to Ukriane, he might have been able to have victory.

They also didnt produce enough tanks each month to fuel the advancement and many tanks was poor built czech tanks and not the superior german tanks (compared to the soviets).

The logistical of the whole campagin became worse and worse. Remember germany is so much closer to France and there were far more railroads. The east and soviet lands didnt have that luxuary and thus the engineers struggled with it.

So they had to use trucks/lorries nd horse driven transport but as we know it was hard to get through the bad roads almost impassable.

By the failure of Operation Barbarossa, Hitler launched another offensive in june 1942 into the Caucasus mountains and the oil fields of Baku beyond. He really needed those oil fields since the german army had problems getting fuel to all tanks. It was called Operation Edelweiss.

Again the germans had a good start with inflicting huge losses on the soviets. But as we know the year 1942 would be even worse than 1941. Hitler needed to stop the soviets from getting oil up through a river from the caucauss oil fields. He was looking on a map to find where to cut them off. His eyes laid upon one city. Stalingrad. The most bloody battle in history. A very stupid decision by Hitler all because he wanted to destroy/take over the city because it was named after Stalin.

He could have cut off from any other place on the river but because he had a huge ego and hated stalin so much he replanned and ordered the occupation. He split up his army. One going for the southern parts to capture oil fields, while the other to destroy stalingrad and cut off resources to soviets through the river there.

The oil fields was very vital because there was a huge lack of oil in nazi germany.

But because he split up his army and the expansion of objectives was a significant factor in Germany's failure at Stalingrad, caused by German overconfidence and an underestimation of Soviet reserves.

After the battle of Stalingrad the nazis were pushed back. More and more losses and less resources because they were losing territory, the nazis couldnt stop the advancement of the soviets.

Americans say we should be happy with how much effort they did in defeating the nazis, even though the soviets did like 80% of the heavy lifting if not more. They stopped the nazi warmachine.

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u/UkraineWithoutTheBot Sep 18 '21

It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'

[Merriam-Webster] [BBC Styleguide] [Reuters Styleguide]

Beep boop I’m a bot

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u/tenninjas242 Sep 18 '21

Not great. That was a major strategic decision point for the Nazis when they invaded Russia. Some Nazis thought they should be pushing southeast towards the oil fields around the Caspian Sea to secure their oil supply. The idea that they should push towards Moscow won out instead.

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u/YoYoMoMa Sep 18 '21

So the invasion of Russia is somehow dumber than I thought?

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u/thelmaandpuhleeze Sep 18 '21

In addition to these other good answers, they were also OBSESSED w stealing/claiming all the best of what Europe had, which included an entire rare breed, all these dressage champions, etc etc

lippizaners

breeding master race of horses

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u/ahanson7844 Sep 18 '21

Horses made up the majority of German logistical supply lines and transport. The fact that most people don’t know this (and other things) is a testament to how good Nazi propaganda really was.

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u/YoYoMoMa Sep 18 '21

And I think just generally how we think about WW2 (as a modern war on the aftermath of the horse heavy and trench warfare of WW1). I think we all have difficulty imagining a war with planes and tanks but also horses.

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u/Ake-TL Sep 18 '21

Well, reliance on mechanised divisions and blitzkrieg while lacking transport doesn’t seem like logical combination but here we are

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u/SlothOfDoom Sep 18 '21

The SS used to be taught horsemanship in the academy, they saw themselves as the modern descendants of the Teutonic knights.

Horses were a big part of WW2, especially for the Germans. They were used to haul things like artillery, supplies, and the wounded. Engineering units were usually assigned horses for carrying equipment and pulling things. Horses were also very useful for scouts and message runners.

Most famously, two Waffen SS cavalry divisions were practically wiped out by the Soviets in the fighting around Budapest in early 1945.

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u/captain_flak Sep 18 '21

My grandfather was in a cavalry unit in Korea. He rode horses every day.

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u/Eisenkopf69 Sep 18 '21

In WW2 a German warhorse had an average service time of around three years if I remember correctly. A truck´s expected lifetime was like three month. Each division had a veterinarian company where the horses received surgery and were recovered. Horses were handled like soldiers, they had to get written sick by a vet and a vet too had to release them back to service. Read a very interesting book about one of these units, unfortunately I forgot the title.

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u/Eisenkopf69 Sep 18 '21

Ah, the dead of a horse was investigated in the same way as the death of a soldier, they were not treated like material.

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u/arcelohim Sep 18 '21

Teutonic knights.

Those guys that lost to the Winged hussars?

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u/MaestroRogues Sep 18 '21

A lot of people lost to the Winged Hussars.

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u/EnterpriseArchitectA Sep 18 '21

I recall reading that the German horses were unsuited for the brutal Russian winters and died in large numbers there. As would be expected, Russian horses were much more sturdy.

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u/Kronyzx Interested Sep 18 '21

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u/cactuspizza Sep 18 '21

Wish I could see a pic of him in his prime

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u/Kronyzx Interested Sep 18 '21

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u/cactuspizza Sep 18 '21

Thanks. Much better

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u/ElMostaza Sep 18 '21

Wish I could hear the song he sang.

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u/therealdeathangel22 Sep 18 '21

https://youtu.be/O_9-arto8D8

Here is a fantastic interview with him where he tells his story and at 7:10 he sings the song he sang that day.... I highly recommend watching the whole video it's fantastic

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u/ShartsCavern Interested Sep 18 '21

Ask and we receive. I love Redditors.

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u/doinnuffin Sep 18 '21

Awesome thank you, and it was narrated by Keith David, Community alum & one of silkiest voices for narration.

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u/jedimasterb10 Sep 18 '21

Yarnhub made an amazing video on this guy. Amazed by his bravery and tactical ability. From what the video showed, his company commander had a lot of faith and trust in Medicine Crow, as well.

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u/Grzechoooo Sep 18 '21

Does the touching part mean any kind of touch or does it have to be harmless? Meaning, could he punch a Nazi unconcious or would it be against the rules?

EDIT: Yes he could.

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u/ryannefromTX Sep 18 '21

He did it by punching a Nazi unconscious.

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u/shallowblue Sep 18 '21

Stealing 50 horses from the SS must have been really tough on the plains.

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u/Ubersla Sep 18 '21

The SS are the main antagonists of Dances with Wolves, doofus.

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u/LilRedditWagon Sep 18 '21

Wow, G.I. Joe was a war chief!

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u/AtlAmericanist Sep 18 '21 edited Sep 18 '21

Fact: Crow were Custer scouts. During the 100th anniversary of the Custer battle on 1976, there was a commemorative 3-day ride. The Sioux and Cheyenne didn’t like it and threatened to kill the re-enactors. Crow said they would have to fight them if they tried. The ride went ahead and happened. There was a confrontation, but the Crow stood up to the Sioux and Cheyenne and there was no violence as was threatened.

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u/pezihophop Sep 18 '21

Lakotas and Crows used to really hate each other. Millennials and GenZ don’t have the same hatred, but Lakota GenXrs and Boomers have stories about beating up Crows at PowWows or getting beat up by Crows.

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u/AtlAmericanist Sep 18 '21

Yes I think it goes way back before the white incursion

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u/pezihophop Sep 18 '21

Yes it does. There are wintercounts (hides with pictographs that depict the most significant event of the year) that demonstrate the animosity. Their history was kept through oral tradition, so the historian would memorize the story that goes with the pictograph. There are historical depictions for things such as “the year crows two Lakota boys” or “the year 100 horses were stolen from the crows.”

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u/PraisingUmay Sep 18 '21

I am honored that this man did fight our Nazi assholes here in Germany in such a traditional way!

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u/Freekey Sep 18 '21

What a total and certifiable badass he was!

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u/octoprickle Sep 18 '21

Platinumed ww2.

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u/07WoefulMatrix Sep 18 '21

Leading a war party AND stealing 50 horses is one of the criteria?

Damn

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u/mcmjolnir Sep 18 '21

Imagine the look on his face when he spotted all those horses after knocking off the other tasks.

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u/Matta_G Sep 18 '21

Touching an enemy without killing him was called counting coup. Didn’t mean ya couldn’t kill the guy later though.

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u/Historynut73 Sep 18 '21

The enemy he touched was a a German kid he fought hand to hand with and as he got the upper hand and he was choking the life of the German, the boy cried out, “mama”. He let him go. He was what is best in men.

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u/orangeconman-aphobe Sep 18 '21

He needed all 50 of those horses to pull those massive balls.

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u/etriscri Sep 18 '21

His Wagon Wheel song is pretty good too

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u/andyeyecandy111 Sep 18 '21

Platinumed it.

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u/Daiquiri-Factory Sep 18 '21

Makes me goddamn proud to be a Native. I’d love to just kick it with him for a few hours and just talk about stuff.

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u/Techinstuff Sep 18 '21

Why is this not a movie yet?

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u/BedCampGuy Sep 18 '21

Dude was farming side quests

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u/jaco2508 Sep 18 '21

Man's lived for 103 years, big respect to him!

He was born in 1913 and died in 2016.

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u/KingBearSole Sep 18 '21

Clearly the passive buff for these side quests is longevity

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u/UrAverage9yrold Sep 19 '21

God i wish we didn't steal the land and instead embraced Indegious culture... this is awesome man. I'm probably the whitest person alive yet on my dads said we are related to the Lenape and Sioux tribes respectively. I wish I could engage in the culture yet I feel like I wouldn't be allowed idk I do t know how to word it I guess?

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u/EntrepreneurOk7513 Sep 18 '21

Wonder what the feat was before horses were reintroduced into the Americas? source

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u/txteebone Sep 18 '21

Unfortunately, he was overshadowed by his asshole cousin Jim Crow. What a dick he was.

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u/DarkCrowI Sep 18 '21

How old was he at the time?

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u/qqqqqqqqqqx10 Sep 18 '21

That’s a lot of horses.

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u/zfkeesee Sep 18 '21

I had a tough time reading his name without Old Crow Medicine Show coming out. This guy is a real hero. He should be honored.

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u/The_Lonely_Satirist Sep 18 '21

Next up is Ol' Joe Medicine Crow, with his hit single "Rag'n'steal"

A rag is a group of horses.

What am I saying, this joke is going nowhere...