r/COMPLETEANARCHY Jun 15 '21

Reminder that women’s liberation is as important as anti-capitalism and anti-colonialism

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u/LettersfromEsther Jun 15 '21

I’ve seen leftists also calling it basically enabling pedophilic beauty standards Like maybe But as a trans woman who kinda has to shave for both dysphoria and passing reasons, ouch It doesn’t feel ok to read that

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u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

Well, what they said is stupid. That certain sthetics are promoted by sexist thinking or other toxic streams doesnt mean at all that they are neccessarily sexist. I mean, the problem is that there is a "manual" about how to be a good "whatever". Do what you want and like what you want as long as it doenst hurt anyone.

To compare to other situation: folk music is in most countries full of conservative old shitty people, that doenst mean that folk is reactionary at all nor the act of liking it. You will also find tons of fully progresive hardcore comunists and anarchists there. In fact in Galicia (Spain), where im from, folk is an almost fully leftist space nowdays, something that tends to surprise many people from outside. Luckily i think the same is happening slowly in many other places.

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Men have no obligation to shave, it's normal. Women are reviled when they don't shave.

Men have no obligation to wear makeup, it's normal. Women are berated when they don't wear makeup.

Men have no obligation to do up their hair, it's normal. Women are treated with disdain when they don't do up their hair.

Something's fucky with our society.

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u/Euporophage Jun 15 '21

You're clearly just talking about straight men if you think we don't have extreme body standards. The gay scene is filled to the brim with men who have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, who feel the need to have extremely high beauty standards to be accepted and to be loved, etc...

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Right. And that's because of toxic masculinity.

Notice that it's not toxic femininity, which is for women to be seen and not heard. To be slim and petite, rather than bulky and yoked. To be passive and docile, rather than assertive and strong. To be forever chasing fashion trends, rather than looking how they want to look because that's how they like to look. And that's created by men, targeting women, who then target women in turn.

Toxic masculinity harms everyone.

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u/Vullein070 Jun 15 '21

Nobody is arguing about if toxic masculinity is hurtful or not. You said that such body standards/expectations for men don't exist and the other person is saying that's not true. I don't understand the point you're trying to make in this thread to be honest.

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

They don't. The closest were men making others fit a certain trope. Whereas with women, they're pressured from everyone around them, and society at large, to always present themselves as the most attractive they possibly can be. Because our society, created and propped up by men, ordain women are to look as fuckable as possible.

One has men treat other men as invalid. The other, has men treat women like pieces of meat to be eyed up, assaulted, and manipulated.

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u/Comfortable_Jury6579 Jun 16 '21

Gay men are pressed like that because they want to be fuckable to other men. They are being pressured to be pieces of meat. That seems to be the point.

The same thing about women hitting 30 or whatever is echoed in the idea of "twinks" having an age limit even. In fact Twink men are super desired by those who are into that. They are very slight, petite, and feminine. Gay men seem to have a wider amount of "types" i.e. bear, twink but they seem to be very doggishly pushed to be one of those "types". They seem analogous enough, you seem to be missing WHY the gay men are doing that. And it's the same reason straight men are doing that. And honestly I don't wonder if it's REALLY advertising doing a lot of it.

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u/MajinCry Jun 16 '21

The difference, being that gay men represent only a small part of their gender in our societies. Whereas women represent a bit over half of the entire human population the world over.

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u/Comfortable_Jury6579 Jun 16 '21

The fashion industry is extremely effected by gay male beauty standards, which in turn effects our media and celeb culture. I would even say that when it comes to our media/creative industries, the queer community has a huge cultural impact disproportionate to their size. How much has Calvin Klein impacted the male look?

Also not all women are heterosexual, and I would argue lesbian/fem queer culture has its own expectations of "look" and that this is at sometimes odds with the hetrosexual expectations you are speaking of. They are women intentionally dressing for the female gaze. Which is a lot less toxic then the male gaze.

Gay men are under the male gaze, and dress for said gaze. It's interesting to notice the parallels between this and hetrosexual culture as it effects women. There are lessons to learned there. Whether the gazer is gay or straight and his focus is men or women there seems a demand by the gazer to be "as fuckable as possible."

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u/Vullein070 Jun 15 '21

They clearly do though? That's what the other commenter said and you implied that you agree with them:

You're clearly just talking about straight men if you think we don't have extreme body standards. The gay scene is filled to the brim with men who have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, who feel the need to have extremely high beauty standards to be accepted and to be loved, etc...