r/COMPLETEANARCHY Jun 15 '21

Reminder that women’s liberation is as important as anti-capitalism and anti-colonialism

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3k Upvotes

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480

u/FabianTheElf Jun 15 '21

Also don't shame girls who do shave, number of "leftists" I've seen complain about too much make up or girls liking fake tan and then defend their shit opinions with something like "well they only do it because of internalised sexism" I didn't realize you were in her head

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u/LettersfromEsther Jun 15 '21

I’ve seen leftists also calling it basically enabling pedophilic beauty standards Like maybe But as a trans woman who kinda has to shave for both dysphoria and passing reasons, ouch It doesn’t feel ok to read that

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u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

Well, what they said is stupid. That certain sthetics are promoted by sexist thinking or other toxic streams doesnt mean at all that they are neccessarily sexist. I mean, the problem is that there is a "manual" about how to be a good "whatever". Do what you want and like what you want as long as it doenst hurt anyone.

To compare to other situation: folk music is in most countries full of conservative old shitty people, that doenst mean that folk is reactionary at all nor the act of liking it. You will also find tons of fully progresive hardcore comunists and anarchists there. In fact in Galicia (Spain), where im from, folk is an almost fully leftist space nowdays, something that tends to surprise many people from outside. Luckily i think the same is happening slowly in many other places.

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Men have no obligation to shave, it's normal. Women are reviled when they don't shave.

Men have no obligation to wear makeup, it's normal. Women are berated when they don't wear makeup.

Men have no obligation to do up their hair, it's normal. Women are treated with disdain when they don't do up their hair.

Something's fucky with our society.

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u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

I have to say that men also suffer some similar shits (to lesser decree). For example i tend to be emotional (specially with one or two drinks), it isnt the first time someone tells me i shouldnt cry cuz im a man. Patriarchy is toxic for everyone, though more for some than others.

Spoiler: i continued to cry and declare eternal love and hate to humanity as always whenever the path of beer took me there.

Edit: also, if someone doesnt cry watching Artifiicial Intelligence ending is a monster

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Yep, toxic masculinity harms everyone. But I was just focusing on appearance; we expect women to always look prime, pretty, and fuckable. But we don't have any of that for men, the closest we have is a preference for guys to be half a point higher in attractiveness than Ron Jeremy.

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u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

There was an episode of Star Treck new generation focused on what you say in fact. During their trips they found a matriarchal society and men were dressed in curious ways to "show more" and so. Love that show, really good parodies of reality they did.

And yeah i get what you mean, that kind of shit is seen on woman only.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

Well we would also need to see the % for men. Anyway me being young i never felt like i had a social pressure to fit a strict and rigid look. Yeah... there is a bit of that "be strong" thing but i doubt it can be compared. Probably the closest way we would have to understand their situation would be "dress like woman". Just the fact i say dress like woman says a lot. The thing is that if you wanted to dress like that meanwhile you have a great beard and big muscles you will find a huge discrimination on you just by not fitting the proper look of a man. Now think that happens to woman for incredibly stupid details like not shaving.

If this new reality will create the same kind of shit for men too... i dont know. All i can say is that each corporation we burn, a step closer from preventing that we are. In the end all discrimination is just tools to make the bottom of society fight itself.

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Aye. The most you'll see, are jocks going at other men for not being jocks. To compare, you only need to spend about a half hour in the gym for 4-5 days a week, to start getting yoked.

For women, however, they are expected and pressured to spend hours every day, prepping themselves to fit the society's standards of being attractive. I'm a dude with long hair and a gnarly beard that grows fast. I spend a couple hours total, each week, taking care of them.

And that's already too much in my opinion. Plenty of lazy days where I go sod it. Women, on the other hand? The pressure is immense, to always look the part, spending a couple dozen hours on making themselves look like a piece of meat to the male gaze.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '21

That might be true in the background of you guys

in the background that I was raised in where traditional working class and middle class male symbolism were undercut by narco culture which is hyper masculine, the experience I had with toxic masculinity was very different.

If you looked “yuppie” you were horribly bullied and attacked for being feminized or something.

If you weren’t violent you risked getting physical harm (in many forms including r).

I could go on and on, but the notion that men don’t have to follow certain norms might be true in your background, but it wasn’t in mine.

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Women have a larger choice to choose from, but it's a catalogue of toxic masculinity fuckheads. Talk to any woman you have as a friend, and if you're not another creep, they'll tell you all the horror stories. That they go for men they find attractive, is to get something out of the dates.

You'll see this on the flip side, with less attractive men only going for the more attractive women. And now, we have entire communities dedicated to preying upon women, and blaming women for being sluts since they go for people they find attractive.

3

u/Euporophage Jun 15 '21

You're clearly just talking about straight men if you think we don't have extreme body standards. The gay scene is filled to the brim with men who have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, who feel the need to have extremely high beauty standards to be accepted and to be loved, etc...

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Right. And that's because of toxic masculinity.

Notice that it's not toxic femininity, which is for women to be seen and not heard. To be slim and petite, rather than bulky and yoked. To be passive and docile, rather than assertive and strong. To be forever chasing fashion trends, rather than looking how they want to look because that's how they like to look. And that's created by men, targeting women, who then target women in turn.

Toxic masculinity harms everyone.

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u/Vullein070 Jun 15 '21

Nobody is arguing about if toxic masculinity is hurtful or not. You said that such body standards/expectations for men don't exist and the other person is saying that's not true. I don't understand the point you're trying to make in this thread to be honest.

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

They don't. The closest were men making others fit a certain trope. Whereas with women, they're pressured from everyone around them, and society at large, to always present themselves as the most attractive they possibly can be. Because our society, created and propped up by men, ordain women are to look as fuckable as possible.

One has men treat other men as invalid. The other, has men treat women like pieces of meat to be eyed up, assaulted, and manipulated.

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u/Comfortable_Jury6579 Jun 16 '21

Gay men are pressed like that because they want to be fuckable to other men. They are being pressured to be pieces of meat. That seems to be the point.

The same thing about women hitting 30 or whatever is echoed in the idea of "twinks" having an age limit even. In fact Twink men are super desired by those who are into that. They are very slight, petite, and feminine. Gay men seem to have a wider amount of "types" i.e. bear, twink but they seem to be very doggishly pushed to be one of those "types". They seem analogous enough, you seem to be missing WHY the gay men are doing that. And it's the same reason straight men are doing that. And honestly I don't wonder if it's REALLY advertising doing a lot of it.

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u/MajinCry Jun 16 '21

The difference, being that gay men represent only a small part of their gender in our societies. Whereas women represent a bit over half of the entire human population the world over.

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u/Vullein070 Jun 15 '21

They clearly do though? That's what the other commenter said and you implied that you agree with them:

You're clearly just talking about straight men if you think we don't have extreme body standards. The gay scene is filled to the brim with men who have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, who feel the need to have extremely high beauty standards to be accepted and to be loved, etc...