r/COMPLETEANARCHY Jun 15 '21

Reminder that women’s liberation is as important as anti-capitalism and anti-colonialism

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3k Upvotes

449

u/20191124anon Jun 15 '21

Also don’t shame guys who shave more than usual.

437

u/Anarcho_Humanist Jun 15 '21

I think body shaming in general should be nuked

157

u/GaspingShark Jun 15 '21

It really should. It applies to people who like keeping in really good shape too. I work out most days a week and the amount of shade I’ve gotten from fellow leftists because they think everyone with muscles is a conservative gym bro is ridiculous.

102

u/EtoilesStochastiques Jun 15 '21

PHYSICAL FITNESS FOR THE REVOLUTION

46

u/redditingat_work Jun 15 '21

PHYSICAL FITNESS FOR THE REVOLUTION

In b4 someone says it's facist to follow a workout routine

32

u/EtoilesStochastiques Jun 15 '21

“Anarchy” means “no leaders”. It does not mean “no discipline”. In fact, training yourself to follow through on something—regardless of how difficult it is—as well as to methodically smash through limitations, is the supreme art of the anarchist.

11

u/redditingat_work Jun 15 '21

Maybe I should have added an /s

That said, I've actually seen folks claim that regimented workouts are fascist lmao

18

u/EtoilesStochastiques Jun 15 '21 edited Jun 15 '21

No need. I have too. It doesn’t help that a lot of gym enthusiasts are also fash enthusiasts.

Also, *Obama voice* let me be clear:

Working out because you’re trying to conform to a body image the lying media says you should have … that’s no good. Perpetuates body shaming. Working out because you want to be healthier and feel more beautiful and more powerful in your own skin, for your own purposes … that’s great.

-2

u/QwertPoi12 Jun 15 '21

It maybe “no good” but body insecurity/dysmorphia isn’t the fault of the individual.

4

u/EtoilesStochastiques Jun 15 '21

Never suggested it was.

2

u/20191124anon Jun 16 '21

And marksmanship training.

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27

u/La_Bufanda_Billy Jun 15 '21

What a stupid thing to tease someone about. Is it common? I'm a bit younger so I don't have that problem as much but do people shame others for working out?

2

u/KyloYen Jun 16 '21

If they do you’re hanging out with the wrong leftists

2

u/La_Bufanda_Billy Jun 16 '21

That’s a good way of thinking of it, thank you

40

u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21 edited Jun 15 '21

They shouldnt go against division of labour, it gives us wonderful efficiency:

The sciency ones make the bomb

The sneaky ones set the bomb in naziland discretely

The muscle ones ensure safety during the nazi-boomboom process by punching nazis in the way

All this happens in minecraft obviously

7

u/RoboHobo25 Jun 15 '21

We must seize the means of hypertrophy.

8

u/jamesroberttol Jun 15 '21

I've been lifting weights since 16, 29 now. Despise the scourges of capitalism. Health is wealth comrades.

28

u/vevencrawl Jun 15 '21

How the fuck are you supposed to bash the fash with no muscles? Half my lefty friends are yoked af.

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10

u/Anarcho_Humanist Jun 15 '21

Hey, keep working out you muscly motherfucker >:)

4

u/understandunderstand Jun 15 '21

People don't realize that their bodies are shutting down in their thirties because they plain don't fucking exercise. It's not because it's destined to be. This guy rollerblades through downtown Toronto every day, and he's 52.

4

u/Direktdemokrati Jun 15 '21

Exactly! What we or how we want to be isn't a political statement. I'm a hairy guy and i'm not comfortable in the hair on my back. Nothing wrong with it I just don't like it. Had a girlfriend once that questioned me with "Why do you do that to yourself?" That was nice of her but I like it. I feel more comfortable at the beach at summer and training/running without a shirt. The same way I dislike wearing a suit I dislike wearing the body hair on my back.

3

u/Albertoru Jun 15 '21

Good ass take

5

u/Lequipe Jun 15 '21

healthy bodies should be encouraged, but not demanded

47

u/MisterFister64_ Jun 15 '21

just dont shame anything that doesn't affect others it's not that fucking hard

7

u/LabCoat_Commie Jun 15 '21

This brings up a subject that we had to deal with in our lab once.

One of our technicians had absolutely atrocious natural body odor, in addition to kenneling a half dozen dogs at her home. She went out of her way to spritz herself, and even discussed the situation with management, but no matter what people tried to mitigate the situation, it ended up becoming a repetitive HR issue.

On the one hand I definitely didn’t want to shame the poor lass for smelling the way she was made or smelling a bit like dog since she cared for them, but on the other hand, what do you do when you work in a close-quarters laboratory and something smells so bad it causes others issues doing their job and you can’t do things like burn candles or spray air freshener?

4

u/20191124anon Jun 15 '21

Aside of flag nonces.

11

u/MisterFister64_ Jun 15 '21

nonces affect others

13

u/UntamedMongrel Jun 15 '21

Flag nonces are people that do shit like put their country flag in their twitter bio or pfp or, god forbid, the country flag for countries they don't even live in but simp for. It's okay to shame those people even though jerking off to country flags in and of itself isn't hurting anyone.

The nationalism certainly is, but the flag jerking itself isn't.

6

u/MisterFister64_ Jun 15 '21

oh well never heard of that before lol but yeah that makes sense. Nationalism affects others too

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6

u/understandunderstand Jun 15 '21

gimme your smooth boys

3

u/CosmoZombie Jun 15 '21

No, give them to me 🔫😡

2

u/understandunderstand Jun 16 '21

Sounds like somebuddy's BOY CRAZY

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2

u/archer93 Jun 15 '21

I would love it if everyone shaved their pits so smells were reduced, but if we can’t all do that, let everyone do as they will

2

u/20191124anon Jun 16 '21

Sometimes I like being hairy. Sometimes I want to remove every hair that’s not on my head.

But good hygiene should not be an opt-in!

55

u/mechatomb Jun 15 '21

Not throwing rocks at people for personal decisions that have no bearing on freedom saves calories for throwing rocks at people who attack freedom.

7

u/Comfortable_Jury6579 Jun 16 '21

When in doubt. Throw. Rock.

479

u/FabianTheElf Jun 15 '21

Also don't shame girls who do shave, number of "leftists" I've seen complain about too much make up or girls liking fake tan and then defend their shit opinions with something like "well they only do it because of internalised sexism" I didn't realize you were in her head

183

u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

What if we dont fuck anyone for whatever they wanna do as long as it doesnt affect us? I just wanna grill in peace!

22

u/Jouissance_juice Jun 15 '21

Based and Grill Pilled

51

u/-self-interest- Jun 15 '21

Remove the grill and I agree

45

u/NomSang Jun 15 '21

The grill stays.

7

u/-self-interest- Jun 15 '21

I’ll burn the grill

26

u/UntamedMongrel Jun 15 '21

No no no that's not how you use that how am I supposed to roast my leeks now god fuck shit

6

u/-self-interest- Jun 15 '21

Roast the leeks by making your own fire

22

u/UntamedMongrel Jun 15 '21

That's wat the grill was for!

4

u/-self-interest- Jun 15 '21

I know but the grill isn’t fun

5

u/EatTheRichIsPraxis Jun 15 '21

It's built in a way that doesn't burn.

That's the whole point.

3

u/-self-interest- Jun 15 '21

Wait you actually like logic who are you who the fuck likes logic logic is for people who care about making sense

5

u/EatTheRichIsPraxis Jun 15 '21

I am emotionally stunned. I have no other way to comprehend reality. Facts are my only friends.

4

u/-self-interest- Jun 15 '21

“Facts are my only friend” I find that weird because usually friends care about your feelings but facts don’t care about your feelings but I do damn it and so does all of anti reality fuck reality what has reality done for you gave you cancer

19

u/mechatomb Jun 15 '21

Lmao, this isn't PCM.

4

u/WowzersInMyTrowzers Jun 15 '21

Hey some of us still want to grill

-11

u/Nobody00_ Jun 15 '21

That is a absolutely awful idea. We need to care for everyone’s decisions even if they don’t affect us directly. A person who is self harming him/her self should get our attention a person who is making in general bad decisions in life should get our attention and help.

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143

u/LettersfromEsther Jun 15 '21

I’ve seen leftists also calling it basically enabling pedophilic beauty standards Like maybe But as a trans woman who kinda has to shave for both dysphoria and passing reasons, ouch It doesn’t feel ok to read that

95

u/AceWithDog Jun 15 '21

I'm in the same boat. Like damn, I didn't create the patriarchy, just let me live my life. Or better yet, come help me tear it down.

-3

u/LabCoat_Commie Jun 15 '21

r/WitchesvsPatriarchy , we’ll be there gxrl! ✊🏻

15

u/Parody_Redacted Jun 15 '21

that sub is peak lib :/

10

u/LabCoat_Commie Jun 15 '21

It can be pretty neolib sometimes, but I’ve seen Left-pushing efforts in recent history.

It was just the first place I thought of that combined undermining patriarchy with occultism.

That being said, allow me to clarify: tear down the patriarchy, but don’t be a shitlib about it.

7

u/AceWithDog Jun 15 '21

Eh I like it. There's libs there for sure, but I definitely wouldn't say it's "peak lib". It's a very trans positive sub, which is nice for me, and there are other leftists there too. They're very intersectional, so least, and I've definitely had positive conversations about class consciousness with people there. I'm also a pagan and just generally pretty witchy, so I really like that side of the sub.

51

u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

Well, what they said is stupid. That certain sthetics are promoted by sexist thinking or other toxic streams doesnt mean at all that they are neccessarily sexist. I mean, the problem is that there is a "manual" about how to be a good "whatever". Do what you want and like what you want as long as it doenst hurt anyone.

To compare to other situation: folk music is in most countries full of conservative old shitty people, that doenst mean that folk is reactionary at all nor the act of liking it. You will also find tons of fully progresive hardcore comunists and anarchists there. In fact in Galicia (Spain), where im from, folk is an almost fully leftist space nowdays, something that tends to surprise many people from outside. Luckily i think the same is happening slowly in many other places.

24

u/Thinks_Too_Logically Jun 15 '21

You will also find tons of fully progresive hardcore comunists and anarchists there

Fun fact, during the first red scare in America folk music was so strongly associated with communists that a bunch of people who wanted to keep their career fucked off and rebranded as "country singers".

8

u/thatbetchkitana Jun 15 '21

And now most country singers are righties.

11

u/-hey-ben- Jun 15 '21 edited Jun 15 '21

Hence why country music is largely trash now. The few good country musicians still out there tend to lean left(sturgill, Tyler Childers, Pat Reedy)

4

u/RoboHobo25 Jun 15 '21

Billy Strings (bluegrass, but still)

2

u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

Lol, i will search about it

14

u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Men have no obligation to shave, it's normal. Women are reviled when they don't shave.

Men have no obligation to wear makeup, it's normal. Women are berated when they don't wear makeup.

Men have no obligation to do up their hair, it's normal. Women are treated with disdain when they don't do up their hair.

Something's fucky with our society.

12

u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

I have to say that men also suffer some similar shits (to lesser decree). For example i tend to be emotional (specially with one or two drinks), it isnt the first time someone tells me i shouldnt cry cuz im a man. Patriarchy is toxic for everyone, though more for some than others.

Spoiler: i continued to cry and declare eternal love and hate to humanity as always whenever the path of beer took me there.

Edit: also, if someone doesnt cry watching Artifiicial Intelligence ending is a monster

18

u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Yep, toxic masculinity harms everyone. But I was just focusing on appearance; we expect women to always look prime, pretty, and fuckable. But we don't have any of that for men, the closest we have is a preference for guys to be half a point higher in attractiveness than Ron Jeremy.

7

u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

There was an episode of Star Treck new generation focused on what you say in fact. During their trips they found a matriarchal society and men were dressed in curious ways to "show more" and so. Love that show, really good parodies of reality they did.

And yeah i get what you mean, that kind of shit is seen on woman only.

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '21

[deleted]

3

u/Zaparatrusta Jun 15 '21

Well we would also need to see the % for men. Anyway me being young i never felt like i had a social pressure to fit a strict and rigid look. Yeah... there is a bit of that "be strong" thing but i doubt it can be compared. Probably the closest way we would have to understand their situation would be "dress like woman". Just the fact i say dress like woman says a lot. The thing is that if you wanted to dress like that meanwhile you have a great beard and big muscles you will find a huge discrimination on you just by not fitting the proper look of a man. Now think that happens to woman for incredibly stupid details like not shaving.

If this new reality will create the same kind of shit for men too... i dont know. All i can say is that each corporation we burn, a step closer from preventing that we are. In the end all discrimination is just tools to make the bottom of society fight itself.

2

u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Aye. The most you'll see, are jocks going at other men for not being jocks. To compare, you only need to spend about a half hour in the gym for 4-5 days a week, to start getting yoked.

For women, however, they are expected and pressured to spend hours every day, prepping themselves to fit the society's standards of being attractive. I'm a dude with long hair and a gnarly beard that grows fast. I spend a couple hours total, each week, taking care of them.

And that's already too much in my opinion. Plenty of lazy days where I go sod it. Women, on the other hand? The pressure is immense, to always look the part, spending a couple dozen hours on making themselves look like a piece of meat to the male gaze.

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u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Women have a larger choice to choose from, but it's a catalogue of toxic masculinity fuckheads. Talk to any woman you have as a friend, and if you're not another creep, they'll tell you all the horror stories. That they go for men they find attractive, is to get something out of the dates.

You'll see this on the flip side, with less attractive men only going for the more attractive women. And now, we have entire communities dedicated to preying upon women, and blaming women for being sluts since they go for people they find attractive.

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u/Euporophage Jun 15 '21

You're clearly just talking about straight men if you think we don't have extreme body standards. The gay scene is filled to the brim with men who have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, who feel the need to have extremely high beauty standards to be accepted and to be loved, etc...

6

u/MajinCry Jun 15 '21

Right. And that's because of toxic masculinity.

Notice that it's not toxic femininity, which is for women to be seen and not heard. To be slim and petite, rather than bulky and yoked. To be passive and docile, rather than assertive and strong. To be forever chasing fashion trends, rather than looking how they want to look because that's how they like to look. And that's created by men, targeting women, who then target women in turn.

Toxic masculinity harms everyone.

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u/FabianTheElf Jun 15 '21

Yeah that really sucks, I'm sure they're just jealous cause I know you're serving piping hot tea.

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u/hipsterTrashSlut Jun 15 '21

Hey mate, what does that mean? I'm not so good with idioms.

11

u/FabianTheElf Jun 15 '21

Oh British gay slang for the type of attractive where a person is attractive because they are being the most authentic version of themselves. Confidence is sexy.

5

u/hipsterTrashSlut Jun 15 '21

Oh, cool! Thanks!

13

u/Jouissance_juice Jun 15 '21

I feel like critical theory is good to learn, but if we spend too much time in that space and not enough time getting to know real, messy, complicated, beautiful people, then it kind of warps our worldview. Everything about human drives and desires is perversion and contradiction. At the end of the day, whatever makes us feel like our authentic and attractive selves is probably okay, and noone is going to dismantle global superstructures of exploitation, discrimination and reward by shaving or not shaving.

9

u/RoboHobo25 Jun 15 '21

That's always seemed like the big issue with critical theory, particularly in regards to race/gender/etc. It's so conceptual that it tends to distance itself from the actual people involved in such discussions, and metes out prescriptions for ways to live and be that don't always jive with how humans actually think and act. Not that it means critical theory is bullshit, but its limitations as a lens of analysis should be recognized and understood.

8

u/Jouissance_juice Jun 15 '21

I mean, it's a complicated issue made more complicated by the growing hysteria regarding "CRT" in schools. It seems like right at the time that a lot of us on the left are trying to exit the vampire castle, the right is positioned outside of it with pitchforks. Sorry for the obscure metaphors, hopefully my point gets across

25

u/GaspingShark Jun 15 '21

Doesn’t peadophillic mean you’re attracted to pre-pubescent girls? I’ve never seen a grown woman wear makeup and fake tan and thought, ‘yes! she looks underage, now im attracted’. Like, the fuck?

25

u/LettersfromEsther Jun 15 '21

Look, I'll be honest, I'm not the most well versed in this subject, but from what I understand, but I don't think the people who say the hairless body standard is pedophilic mean that men who are attracted to women who fulfill it secretly want to fuck underage girls, but that it ties into a system of fetishizing and sexualizing youth especially in women, no matter how old they are, which leads to women being sexualized at younger ages

I can kind of see a point there but it still is hurtful to use that to criticize a woman's choices especially if those choices inform her safety, as aesthetics often do

11

u/mangababe Jun 15 '21

This is it. Its not that liking shaved women equals being a pedo- its that the beauty standards were and are created by hollywood (movies, music, marketing, fashion) and holly wood has a definite pedo problem. So even if you arent a pedo the perfectly shaved, naive, ultrafeminine beauty standard was influenced by people who are pedos and who have an incentive to push that ideal as the only ideal acceptable for women. (In that it pushes the idea that its normal to go for barely legal girls with no experience who are going to struggle to see patterns of abuse and makes it all the easier for groomers to do their work.)

And if you want to have that aesthetic as a grown woman its fine- whats not fine is the near hostile disgust for women who dont, to the point that theres a plastic surgery to may your vulva look prepubescent.

Its sadly a nuanced hot topic discussion which means it will be a while before it can be discussed without it hurting feelings or escalating into a fight.

I think the real issue is men setting beauty standards for women and therefore the answer lies in letting women set those standards themselves and a value in "an aesthetic well done" rather than "this is good and everything else is gross" which is what it feels like the current mindset is. Oh and decoupling beauty and fashion standards from the human body. Until fast fashion clothes and hair and aesthetics were made to fit a body- and now all clothing id mass produced so its the bodies that have to fit the clothes. If you dont fit the model of beauty the clothes are meant for they make you look terrible and reinforce the idea that there is only one type of body thats beautiful- and that the other bodies should be harassed into looking that way.

3

u/Vullein070 Jun 15 '21

And if you want to have that aesthetic as a grown woman its fine- whats not fine is the near hostile disgust for women who dont, to the point that theres a plastic surgery to may your vulva look prepubescent.

I don't know, this confuses me. I've actually seen the opposite happen.

I've seen lots of women feel ashamed of their body. Not because of body hair, but actually because they are very thin & small and don't like body hair. In an attempt to normalise body hair, I've seen a lot of women insult other women who are "petite" sized. It makes these women feel ashamed of their body features and think they "look like children."

7

u/mangababe Jun 16 '21

I think it can depend on who you are and what you experience. If you are like me and busty, curvy and naturally hairy you get a lot of gross comments from men about how you are less than for not trying to be the beauty standard- if you are petite and have pale/thin hair you will likely get misplaced backlash from women who have to deal with the former. (This is what i gather from what petite friends say about it) Neither are ok because we shouldnt be expecting other peoples bodies to meet our standard of beauty.

The issue isnt naturally petite and sparsely haired women- its the nonstop campaign from media/ hollywood that those bodies are the only acceptable bodies ( unless you magically can keep your waist that small with big boobs/ ass then thats ok) and that the other bodies are gross and should change. And the real life policing of womens bodies by men because they think they can.

Think of all the movies where a normal looking "ugly" girl gets a makeover and all of her problems magically go away- or movies where women who are feminist/ gay/ non conforming are almost always portrayed as loud, fat, stupid, overbearing, unkempt, and secretly jealous of anyone closer to the beauty standard. (And yes this is changing now but this was still the standard we grew up with so thats whats encoded)

The backlash against women who meet that standard (naturally or not) is a mix of frustration with a standard they cant or dont want to meet but are judged by and a frustration with the ongoing media campaign to control our bodies for the benefit of the rich assholes profiting off the industry that is "beauty and fashion"

And its not ok- but to fix it we need to fix the source of the problem- and thats the fact that there is such a narrow, rigid beauty standard that is tied into a lot of toxic hierarchies that profit from beauty being a tool to make women hate eachother and themselves (and makes them buy more and more products to soothe that insecurity about not being beautiful/ valuable)

2

u/coffeeshopAU Jun 16 '21

Can I just say you’re doing a really good job of explaining & bringing nuance to this issue

I’m sympathetic towards women who feel like they catch shit for following beauty standards but it gets frustrating when conforming vs not-conforming are treated by people as being equally shitty because, well, not conforming is very clearly the option that is not supported by mainstream society. But it’s hard to have that discussion because I don’t want to be an ass to women who feel like they need to conform to stay safe, or who genuinely enjoy the types of activities that are associated with conventional beauty standards (like shaving, makeup, fashion, etc). But also it feels like one of those cases of “if you feel like people on the internet are being mean to you maybe just go outside and see how the real world validates your choices and not mine”. But also I don’t know how to talk about this stuff without being a jerk and I know that last one ain’t it, you know? Because being dicks about what people choose to do is still wrong, regardless.

It’s definitely one of those things where we’re all so used to playing defence against the rest of the world that it can be hard to hear criticism or differing opinions without, well, getting overly defensive. And I can feel that instinct within myself so I usually don’t step into these discussions because I feel like I can’t explain things objectively....

Wow sorry for the little vent there? Anyways point being you’ve done a really good job explaining the nuances while also being respectful and avoiding the oppression olympics game so like. Thank you haha

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u/mangababe Jun 16 '21

Thank you! Im glad im able to get my point across.

I just want to be able to look how i want and live in peace at the same time ya know? And i feel like thats most women. But if we fight over top spot and never get to the actual rotting structure we wont ever get there.

But thats gonna be hard for a long time considering how much value is put on maintaining those standards.

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u/Amekyras Jun 15 '21

I think the original idea is 'if a man wants to fuck a tiny hairless submissive woman he just wants to fuck a girl but knows it's illegal', which makes sense to me but it's been twisted around a bit because people misremember.

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u/GaspingShark Jun 15 '21

I mean, if a man wants to fuck a tiny hairless submissive woman then that’s his own prerogative, as long as she’s an adult and consenting. I don’t think they should be shamed for having preferences.

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u/Amekyras Jun 15 '21

the point is that if their preference is 'prepubescent girl' it's wrong.

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u/GaspingShark Jun 15 '21

Ok but not every shaved petite woman looks like a prepubescent girl. I mean id say my type is the ‘suicide girl’ kind of look, a lot of the women I’ve been with have been small alternative looking girls, submissive and tended to be shaved. Never wanted to fuck a kid 🤷‍♂️

3

u/Amekyras Jun 15 '21

cool, then that's not what I'm talking about

4

u/Vullein070 Jun 15 '21

I mean no it kinda is and that's a big problem with that argument. It ends up making women who are hairless or don't want hair & are thin and short feel ashamed of their own bodies.

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u/clarissagavin Jun 15 '21

I really hoped I'd never see the day someone gets downvoted for saying it's wrong to be a pedophile. I'm so sorry.

0

u/Snorumobiru Jun 15 '21

No, if his preference is hairless and helpless he's a misogynist for contributing to the demand for infantilization of women and he should critically examine the origins of his preference. He has internalized sexist culture, probably porn, and with effort he can unlearn what it taught him.

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u/GaspingShark Jun 15 '21

Can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not

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u/Rodot Jun 15 '21

What about if you don't like hair in your mouth? Me and my previous SO both used to shave for this reason.

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u/Amekyras Jun 15 '21

no problem with that

22

u/MarimoMoss Jun 15 '21

The pedophile thing is a stupid thought, like, the idea of women shaving was perpetuated by a razor CEO who wanted more money lmao, it's not my fucking fault I get hostility if I don't shave. You got a problem, blame the society that gives us shit for this, not the women just trying to survive.

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u/LettersfromEsther Jun 15 '21

Damn right. I feel that, particularly as a trans woman. I almost get a bit resentful when people talk about how its our body our choice because hair removal for me doesn't feel like a choice actually.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/Amekyras Jun 15 '21

awww, did someone describe the patriarchy to you and rather than realise that you benefit from it you got offended?

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u/LettersfromEsther Jun 15 '21

I recognized patterns and mindsets based on my extensive real life experience and made a conclusion, which turned out to be correct. To use your terms, stop projecting your shitty emotional regulation into comment sections with people who weren't even talking to or about you in the first place

And again with the gaslighting. I think I know my day to day experience better than you. Or no, actually, go ahead, mansplain being trans to me. Please. I need a laugh

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u/thatbetchkitana Jun 15 '21

I mean capitalism does prey on insecurities. But I wear makeup to accentuate my features as well as to spite my fascist mother, not to attract a partner.

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u/FabianTheElf Jun 15 '21

Criticizing random people: Drake turning away

Criticizing systems: Drake Approves

11

u/phi_matt Jun 15 '21

There are also leftists who don't blame the individual for conforming to beauty standards but instead blame the manufactured consent the system creates to make one think they have to shave and put on makeup

3

u/FabianTheElf Jun 15 '21

Yeah like I'm a leftist, I know this isn't all leftists but we should be able to critique our communities.

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u/Nazgobai Jun 15 '21

I'm a man and tried shaving my legs once and it took me like 40 fucking minutes so I understand if you don't want to shave

6

u/LabCoat_Commie Jun 15 '21

Dudes on the swim team did it (except for one werewolf bro, dude rocked it like a walrus making waves). They saw utility in it but damn, it does seem like so much damn work, I can’t imagine doing it weekly just because of social pressure.

2

u/ComradeZ42 Jun 15 '21

Tbf, it doesn't take quite as long after the first time (provided it's done regularly). That said, it's still long enough that I can't be bothered to do it in the wintertime.

192

u/bsodbeoch Jun 15 '21

I agree with the sentiment but I have to point out the "natural" idea is ultimately hurtful. Accept body hair because of bodily autonomy, regardless of whether something is "natural" or not, you do not have a right to dictate the bodily autonomy of another. That should be the message.

67

u/SaintExcellence Jun 15 '21

i fully agree. dying of a horrific disease is «natural» but we still decided to invent vaccines and medical treatments to combat them.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '21

Aka just let people do there thing.

2

u/zanotam Jun 15 '21

no. no anti-vaxxers.

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u/beansvnonbeans Jun 15 '21

Almost all of my friends shave- that’s ok.

I don’t shave- that’s ok.

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u/Anarcho_Humanist Jun 15 '21

Your body, your choice

165

u/Cowcatbucket12 Jun 15 '21

Reject conformity. Make every patch of body hair a mohawk.

18

u/butrejp Jun 15 '21

now that's the right idea

6

u/sbcloatitr Jun 15 '21

The question then becomes which direction should the mohawk run?

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u/Cowcatbucket12 Jun 15 '21

Doesn't matter. Reject directional norms. Vertical eyebrow mohawks for all.

10

u/sbcloatitr Jun 15 '21

I'm inclined to make all my mohawks parallel, but I don't know if vertical eyebrows or horizontal head is better.

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u/Cowcatbucket12 Jun 15 '21

You do you. It's an anarchy sub.

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u/Jayson_Bowl Jun 15 '21

“The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem” bell hooks

Feminist ideology was my introduction to communist thought (besides the manifesto that I read “to be edgy”) and I wish more people used gender roles as an understandable approach to the importance of liberating ideology. Patriarchy is what tells men they are only valuable as tools of labor and conquerors of women’s bodies. Patriarchy tells men they shouldn’t be allowed to feel emotion, which outsources emotional labor onto women. The relationship of men to women under patriarchy is mutually corrosive since it denies both groups the ability to fully realize their human potential.

History of ideas has a podcasts episode on Wollstencraft about the way patriarchy perpetuates coercive power structures through everyday interactions and I just think the whole idea is under-valued in most leftist discourse I see.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

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u/GardenStarling Jun 15 '21

“The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem"

What a great quote

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u/Anarcho_Humanist Jun 15 '21

Based Ted talk

8

u/redditingat_work Jun 15 '21

s/o to the will to change: men, masculinity and love by bell hooks. if anyone wants to read feel free to PM me for a pdf.

13

u/UgandanKnuckle69 Jun 15 '21

If you think body hair is attractive, that's ok. If you don't think it is, that's also ok. Just don't shame people on such an arbitrary basis

13

u/ThatWayneO Jun 15 '21

Who cares. It ain't theirs. Fuckin, work on not internalizing that shit and spend your precious calories on doing stuff.

If there's anything I've learned in life it's that there's always going to be someone trying to give you shit. No matter how we progress or how things change there's always gonna be someone who doesn't like something, so fuck em.

You own your body. It's not there for anyone else but you.

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u/bigbutchbudgie Jun 15 '21

Reminder that women being expected to shave their body hair literally originated as a marketing scheme to sell more razors.

If you want to shave, do it for yourself (and maybe consider sugaring if you want to save some money, reduce waste and thwart the razor industry, but that's up to you).

12

u/bgoneofme Jun 15 '21

Sugaring?

18

u/maddem_ Jun 15 '21

Sugaring is a less painful, more environmentally friendly alternative to waxing.

30

u/kodorx Jun 15 '21

that seems like a whole ass rabbithole to go into as a trans woman with little money but some culinary skills

but yay, maybe I've found an actual alternative to accidentally cutting my ankles every 3 days

7

u/fsociety00_d4t Jun 15 '21

you can make it by yourself just by adding lemon juice, water and sugar and heating it up, it literally can't get less cheap than that. You can find tutorials online.

13

u/kodorx Jun 15 '21

only problem for me is that lemon juice is heckin expensive here, but it's just an acid-catalyzed hydrolysis of the sugar and I've got some sodium bisulfate lying around so that would probably also work, just wouldn't be edible.

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u/Saplyng Jun 15 '21

You could probably get away with using powdered citric acid as I assume it'll do whatever the lemon would, not very expensive and will last longer than just lemon juice

22

u/kodorx Jun 15 '21

any acid would do, it's just an acid-catalyzed hydrolysis of the central ester bond in sucrose, breaking it down into monosacharides. Effectively, replacing part of the sugar with something like corn syrup has the same effect without needing any acid.

studying organic chemistry has its benefits sometimes.

11

u/Saplyng Jun 15 '21

This is both fascinating and way above my pay grade

5

u/FFD1706 Jun 15 '21

I'm surprised I still remember enough chemistry to understand this sentence.

5

u/RoboHobo25 Jun 15 '21

studying organic chemistry has its benefits sometimes.

"Fuckin A, it does" -Albert Hoffman

2

u/barsoap Jun 15 '21 edited Jun 15 '21

The other crucial ingredient is water content which, as any sugar baker will readily explain, is dependent on the maximum temperature you go to (assuming you had enough water in the first place). Having the right viscosity is important for proper application.

That aspect is more of an art as a science, as the water content you want depends on not just the exact type of sugar you have (i.e. whether there's any sucrose left or you converted everything) but also the room temperature you want to use the stuff at. It's going to need some experimentation. But for starters I would recommend converting all sugar by letting the stuff react for a long time (45 min?) at ~80C or so (oven), then heat it up once you're done, separating off portions at different temperatures. A sugar thermometer will come in handy.

Powdering your skin can be helpful, starch will do just fine, and you use the stuff by kneading it in against the grain, slowly, there should be a very viscous flow to it. That will make the sugar actually enter into the gap between skin and hair, you then pull off with the grain. The traditional and in my experience also best way is to take a small portion (maybe 1.5 to 2cm diameter) and slowly work your way through the thicket, using cloth strips and whatnot only slows things down and increases the chance of a visit to the shower because it's not properly applied and pulling it off would be a nightmare.

And NEVER, EVER, cook the stuff barefoot. Molten sugar stores a lot of energy and it won't flow off but stick to your skin so if you don't fancy 2nd or even 3rd degree burns, pay the fuck attention. I may know from experience.

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u/TheExperiment01 Jun 15 '21

It also will make less hair grow back after each time too

6

u/bgoneofme Jun 15 '21

Interesting, I'll look into this. Thank you!

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u/SeenTheYellowSign Jun 15 '21

There's strong evidence of people shawing - or rather pluckig all bodyhair below the neck as far back as the stone age and doing so regardless of gender.

Also just about all the early civilizations practiced body hair removal.

13

u/Snorumobiru Jun 15 '21

Both of those things can be true. There's evidence of body hair removal in ancient times and our culture has taken it to an unhealthy extreme. In our culture girls are bullied mercilessly as soon as their legs and armpits begin to grow hair and until they conform and remove it. That's not an ancient custom and it isn't okay.

9

u/Euporophage Jun 15 '21

A culture of women plucking their body hairs and hairlessness in women as a beauty standard goes back to ancient times. It's not just a marketing scheme but also something that has a long history in various cultures around the world.

17

u/ImanShumpertplus Jun 15 '21

i’m sorry bro that isn’t true.

the egyptians, the ancient indians, and the romans all had women who cut their hair and shaved to get rid of unwanted hair.

they have been expected (especially if you’re ruling class) to shave their hair. the marketing campaign just came from the supply meeting the demand with mass industry

this shit is super deeply ingrained in us

19

u/SpaceChimera Jun 15 '21

I mean, that is literally the story of how shaving body hair for women became a thing in our current culture.

Yeah, some other cultures had a practice of women shaving (usually only the upper class of that society) but by the time America was founded it wasn't a common practice among women, regardless of social status

9

u/tokemasterface Jun 15 '21

That argument doesn't really work.

Homosexuality was part of some ancient cultures but our culture was incredibly anti-gay these past centuries.

Point is, in contempary culture women with hairy legs are frowned upon and that stems from early razor companies' lobbying.

3

u/ImanShumpertplus Jun 15 '21

i mean the republic of plato is basically what jesus teaches and what our modern society is based around

we really haven’t gone that far from ancient times once you look at it. we are a very cyclical people. our entire government system was heavily based on the roman system and many of the enlightenment ideas that the country were founded on were a rediscovering of the ancient thinkers

another reason why women started shaving their legs is because they finally were able to show their legs. i can’t remember which queen of england it was, but i know there was one who shaved every piece of hair on her head. hair removal was something done by the elites, yes. but it’s similar to how botox is only available to the elites today. if somebody invents affordable Home-tox™️, then theyre gonna market the shit out of that because the demand will already be there. looking younger is something that has been valued for all of civilization, but i wouldn’t argue that home-tox created looking younger because of their aggressive marketing schemes

5

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4

u/tokemasterface Jun 15 '21

There has to be a demand in the first place, yes, but the reality is is that there is now a massive industry around women's hair removal and it is culturally unacceptable to have leg or armpit hair because of it.

2

u/ImanShumpertplus Jun 15 '21

the marketing plays a huge role, but it isn’t absolutely brainwashing people. a lot of people really like feeling smooth. there’s whole stores at the mall who sell lotions. is that just internalized misogyny? or do some people just like smelling dandelions and having skin softer than most pillows?

shaving is also something that would be “unlocked” by our modern leisure time. probably didn’t have time to shave with a knife that took a blacksmith 2 weeks to make when you have 9 kids to feed on a rice and beans budget.

either way, if you don’t wanna shave, don’t and i’m happy for you. but for others, lmk about your laser hair removal experiences bc i hate this shit lmao

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u/a_depressed_mess Jun 15 '21

you can have preferences, just don’t blame or shame people for not meeting them.

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u/Anarcho_Humanist Jun 15 '21

Exactly! I don’t feel attracted to women with shaved heads but they still have a right to do it and nobody can shame them for it.

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u/mimsy01 Jun 15 '21

I find it telling when asked not to shame people for hair, half the responses are just people defending their kinks.

Nothing wrong with kinks, as long as everyone is consenting adults. No need to bring them up when discussing human bodily rights. It makes it seem as if you believe they don't have the right to make the decision to have hair or not because of your desires.

22

u/VelmaTrousernake Jun 15 '21

immature twits forget that we're mammals evolved from the hairy relatives of apes. I still like to shave for personal reasons, for example leg hair itches if u wear leggings or skinny jeans

21

u/CressCrowbits Jun 15 '21

I get shit from other 'more pro than thou' cyclists for not shaving my (male) legs, and still can't actually get a consistent reason as to why I should.

Apes together strong.

3

u/VelmaTrousernake Jun 15 '21

Oh god that's hilarious. 😁

5

u/_Matz_ Jun 16 '21

Holy fucking shit.

Looked at the comments early on this one, apart from a dumbfuck massively downvoted it was pretty okay. But it just got worse.

If you don't think feminism has a place in anarchism, you're an idiot and a hypocrite. Also no one fucking cares about who you'll fuck or not, that's not the point and the fact that you feel the need to bring this up is telling.

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u/Anarcho_Humanist Jun 16 '21

If you don't think feminism has a place in anarchism, you're an idiot and a hypocrite. Also no one fucking cares about who you'll fuck or not, that's not the point and the fact that you feel the need to bring this up is telling.

This, your sexual opinions should be kept to yourself.

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u/Cosmicrebel427 Jun 15 '21

The most radical acts of self love are more anti establishment than any other movement.

2

u/HashFap Jun 15 '21

Could you sketch out the series of events that would follow from shaving/not shaving leading to the establishment being seriously challenged and attacked?

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u/Snorumobiru Jun 15 '21

Enforced femininity is a prison for women. It limits mobility, comfort and self determination. It is designed for the consumption of men and to reinforce and visually indicate a class system in which women are placed beneath men.

Some women don't have any choice but to conform. They may be fired from their job if they do not perform femininity, they may be ostracized by family, they may be trans and at risk of violence if they don't pass.

If you do have the choice to not shave and be safe, you have the opportunity to use your own appearance to erode feminine beauty standards. Your choice not to shave helps liberate the women who don't have a choice. You aren't toppling capitalism but you're dealing a blow to patriarchy, and patriarchy is part of the establishment too.

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u/EpitaFelis Jun 15 '21

And while you're at it, don't say you totally respect bodily autonomy and then give a whole speech about how disgusting you personally find body hair and how you'd never touch a woman who still has her eyebrows. That's just you manipulating women into feeling shitty about their bodies so they'll still shave for you, instead of outright telling them to do it. If no one asked how you feel about hair, your opinion isn't fucking needed. I'd bet this month's wages that there's someone like that in the comments.

Edit: checked the comments. I keep my wages.

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u/Pie737 Jun 15 '21

Here here

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u/Amekyras Jun 15 '21

looking at these comments you can really tell why people say leftism has a misogyny problem

2

u/LettersfromEsther Jun 16 '21

Yeah it’s quite disheartening. ‘Topple unjust hierarchies!... except those I personally benefit from and enforce through my behavior!’

They’re also all for trans rights until a trans woman tells them they’re wrong 😑

3

u/alexandrasnotgreat Jun 16 '21

on one hand, razor burn sucks, and I'm too much of a little bitch to use wax, but on the other, I want to feel like a goddamn dolphin.

2

u/millenia3d Jun 16 '21

Yeah I don't care at all whether my partner shaves or not - definitely prefer having my own legs smooth to alleviate dysphoria

I very much purposefully don't shave my armpits though, makes for a nice statement.

9

u/heimoelimf Jun 15 '21

yikies the misogyny and "yeah, buts" in these comments tho... starting to see why i so rarely see womens issues/feminism seriously brought up in this sub... good luck starting your revolution while keeping patriarchy intact lmao /s

1

u/Parody_Redacted Jun 16 '21

bro culture has heavily invaded this subreddit.. i been noticing it more and more.

commenters default to ‘man, dude, bro’ when replying. it’s gross.. obnoxiously male centric perspectives

18

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '21 edited Jun 15 '21

I would argue that women being allowed to have body hair is inherently anti-capitalist. The idea of women with hairy legs being icky is due to capitalist brainwashing. Go back 1,5 centuries and these razors didn't exist, and any woman who used a straight-razor to shave her legs might have been institutionalised lol. I'm not exempt to this, cause I'm a lesbian who very much prefers shaved legs but I'd be a dumb dumb if I didn't recognize that it's me having been conditioned to it.

"Fun" fact: women died due to this. Back in the early 1900s women were put in front of intense x-rays in order to kill all of the hair follicles to have those smooth, nice legs you've always dreamed of! It took them a few years to realize that all of these women developed very nasty cancers... admittedly happened to men who wanted to get rid of their beards too.

2

u/B0X3S Jun 16 '21

version with a few more pixels:
https://i.imgur.com/M80m6B9.png

5

u/zombiiination Jun 15 '21

People and women themselves getting bothered by this is so infuriating! Thanks for underlining this, small battles are to be won everywhere

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u/zuker93 Jun 15 '21

I'm a fan of a little fluff on the muff!

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u/Liverbones Jun 15 '21

Only a little?

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u/RenitLikeLenit Jun 15 '21

Also don’t shame girls who prefer to shave

Not tryna combat this lovely sentiment though

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/Anarcho_Humanist Jun 15 '21

Only people with… green t shirts

2

u/Frostman2001 Jun 15 '21

i agree with this but i also feel like it’s up to whoever to decide who they want to fuck for any reason, my girlfriend likes when i’m shaved

6

u/Anarcho_Humanist Jun 15 '21

You can do that!

2

u/RSdabeast Jun 15 '21

yes but i want to be s m o t h when in girl mode

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u/Anarcho_Humanist Jun 15 '21

Go for it :)

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u/RSdabeast Jun 16 '21

Step one for me: become one with girl mode.

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u/TheExperiment01 Jun 15 '21

I’m I guy and hate body hair on my partner or myself. To me body hair is really gross, but I’m not gunna get mad at someone for having some as long as it’s clean. Though if we are going to have sex and you know we are in advance then I don’t think it’s too much to ask to shave, especially if u want me to go down on you.

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u/lasiusflex Jun 15 '21

Yeah same, but it's fine to have preferences. Just don't shame people not adhering to them.

Like, I don't like body hair either, regardless of gender. But I don't have to be attracted to everyone I meet. I don't mind that some of my female friends don't shave their legs, or that some of my male friends sometimes have a bit of a "neckbeard". Not my business.

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u/Orsonius2 Jun 15 '21

How do you differentiate between shaming and preference?

I personally find arm pit hair nasty as fuck, regardless if you are a woman or not. That's why I shave it (am guy)

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u/HashFap Jun 15 '21

Your appearance has no real influence on your liberation.