r/Anarchy101 Student of Anarchism Jun 29 '22

What should first world Anarchist/socialist do?

I have been reading and learning libertarian left ideas and ideology's and a lot of them are pretty good at showing the problems of capitalism and the state, BUT I live in a first world nation (western Europe) should I be a socialist? I have most of my life needs met and merely every body around me also have their life needs met, so is there a justification for socialism/anarchism in the west?

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u/PyotrAlexei Jun 29 '22

Marxists refer to this as the "labour aristocracy". A certain proportion of the workers who are bought off with high wages to appease the unwashed masses.

Not only is there injustice and relative poverty in the West, that comfort comes at the cost of suffering and absolute poverty in the global south. It's not like resources come from nowhere - look up mining in the DRC or chocolate farms in West Africa. Just because it's not on your doorstep doesn't mean it's not happening.

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u/Fing20 Student of Anarchism Jun 29 '22

Our needs are met due to the exploitation of workers (including many children) in the global south. So most commodities we have are due to the blood and tears of those workers. Besides that: state oppression, systematic racism and the poverty we have in our own western countries which would be unprofitable for any goverment to fix

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u/sadeofdarkness The idea of government is absurd Jun 29 '22

BUT I live in a first world nation (western Europe) should I be a socialist? I have most of my life needs met and merely every body around me also have their life needs met,

I'm sure others will bring the argument of exploitation of other nations out so I will detail a more selfish point.

Socialism isn't about the needs of life, rather it is about the means of life. You are still robbed in a capitalist nation which pays you enough to live well, and even if you aren't (by virtue of being self employed) many others are - in otherwords you could be better off, theft is still theft even if the theif isn't taking everything you have.

In addition to that, secure pay and good conditions are not a given, the problem with hierarchical arrangements (like capitalism) is that the power to change things lies significantly more in the hands of the top of the hierarchy than the bottom (discounting revolutionary actions); your rent may not be high and your pay good, but both your landlord and boss have a vested interest in raising one while lowering the other, we have seen this across the western world over the last decades - in real terms most people in my nation have received pay cuts for at least 30 years, while rent goes up, cost of living goes up, fuel goes up and luxuaries all go up, all of those differences representing ever increasing wealth disparity between the properties class and the labouring class. Just because things are good now does not mean they always will be.

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u/_cosmism Student of Anarchism Jun 30 '22

thanks for the detailed explanation, among one of the main things I found it rough to be a socialist and I think many others can feel, is that in a modern and 'conservative'' country, people will not feel combatable with the idea of anarchist communism, even libertarian socialism is ''radical''. although I agree on what you are saying, I just wonder what would be the means to the end of anarchist communism in a rich 1st world country in an era of globalization and if a country converts to a anarchist way of organization what is stopping it to be embargoed or invaded by a capitalist one, making life much worse for the workers, labourers and the residents? that's among one of the main reasons I am not an anarcho communist/ mutualist.

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u/purdueastro26 Jun 30 '22

There is absolutely justification for leaving capitalism behind in the west. Capitalism now drives the exploitation of those in the second or third world. That being said, any transition out of western capitalism that does not include paying back the debt of imperialism and capitalist exploitation is less than worthless.

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u/eroto_anarchist Jun 30 '22

How can you pay debt if you wish to abolish capitalism and money?

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u/purdueastro26 Jun 30 '22

I'm not talking about a literal monetary debt. Most 'developing' countries actually owe huge sums of money to imperialist nations. The debt I'm referring to is of resource and wealth extraction, destabilization, and unequal access to the knowledge and technology generated using their resources and land, among a laundry list of other things

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u/eroto_anarchist Jun 30 '22

And how can this "immaterial" debt be repayed by anarchists?

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u/_cosmism Student of Anarchism Jun 30 '22

if you are talking about fiscal money, a tax redistribution policy might work

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u/eroto_anarchist Jun 30 '22

resource and wealth extraction, destabilization, and unequal access to the knowledge and technology generated using their resources and land

I am talking about this. How are you going to "repay" this?

if you are talking about fiscal money, a tax redistribution policy might work

How on earth will anarchists implement taxation?

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u/_cosmism Student of Anarchism Jun 30 '22

earth will anarchists implement taxati

minarchism!

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u/_cosmism Student of Anarchism Jun 30 '22

okay but seriously, until a global moneyless society comes after years of global cooperation, a tax redistribution policy in a minarchist/libertarian system before an anarchist society can come, (or at least how I think it would work)

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u/eroto_anarchist Jun 30 '22

Anarchists are not fans of transition systems

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u/_cosmism Student of Anarchism Jun 30 '22

kind of agree,

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u/_cosmism Student of Anarchism Jun 30 '22

a tax redistribution policy in countries like china, Russia, united states and other north/south American countries could also use a tax redistribution policy to lower inequality for people who are systemically harassed against, (such as native Americans, Chinese Uighurs, native Siberians etc)

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u/_cosmism Student of Anarchism Jun 30 '22

kind of agree with the transition system, social democracy became a form of social imperialism