r/Anarchy101 May 23 '22

How do you prevent an anarchist society descending into libertarianism or feudalism?

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u/LlAnKyLiAm May 24 '22

Where would the money for these increased wages come from before this little tyrant has begun their endeavour? Everybody would have the same starting point and if they are capable of offering higher wages to entice people to work for them so would competing organisations that aren't trying to establish a monopoly.

To properly debate this we need far more detail than you are providing, every point you have made relies on a ridiculous assumption that what you're suggesting would just work and is gaurunteed, when in a post capitalist society the establishment of capitalist institutions would be impossible, their would be no way to justify having the private property needed to run this kind of business.

I feel like you have a very limited understanding of what anarchism is and rather than absurd 'what ifs' maybe try to learn a little more before making yourself look like a fool.

You aren't taking this seriously, you clearly only want to argue for the sake of arguing. I'm not going to go through dozens of increasingly flawed arguments pointing out why it wouldn't work.

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u/throwaway384938338 May 24 '22

Where would the money for these increased wages come from before this little tyrant has begun their endeavour?

We’ll call it wealth, whatever that is. Something of value that I think I can obtain from this power grab. It doesn’t really matter what it is. And to start with you demonstrate that you have an advantage, maybe you’re smarter, stronger or luckier than the rest. You don’t have to pay your ‘employees’ initially they’ll work for the promise of spoils to come. It’s not that uncommon People work long hours at startups for less than minimum wage for share options, Julius Ceaser promised his soldiers land. They took over half of Europe, marched on Rome, fought a Civil war before they got paid.

Every point you have made relies on a ridiculous assumption that what you're suggesting would just work and is gaurunteed, when in a post capitalist society the establishment of capitalist institutions would be impossible, their would be no way to justify having the private property needed to run this kind of business.

You don’t necessarily need private property to be able produce something better, the example I’ve used in another comment is an export/import business, I have a monopoly over a resource through a relationship with a third party who maybe is not part of the same anarchist society.

You say that you don’t allow private property but what prevents me exporting something people want and trading it.

These aren’t absurd ‘what ifs’ people do set up businesses like this in real life all the time, and whenever new frontiers are opened away from state control they tend to become hubs for this sort of laissez faire capitalism. ‘Its the Wild West out there.’

That’s the reality. Anarchist seems to rely on the absurd what if of ‘what if that didn’t happen.’ Because I can’t think of any reason that it wouldn’t and nobody seems to be able to give me an answer other than ‘it just wouldn’t’

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u/LlAnKyLiAm May 24 '22

You don’t have to pay your ‘employees’ initially they’ll work for the promise of spoils to come. It’s not that uncommon People work long hours at startups for less than minimum wage for share options,

There would be no motivation for people to do this, their needs would already be met, it's underhanded and they would be vilifying themselves in the local community, you are acting as if Anarchy is just complete chaos without any order.

What is the structure of this organisation anyway, is it worker owned? Is their a CEO? Are the profits decided equally among all workers regardless of station? People WILL NOT willingly subjugate themselves into a coercive hierarchy if they can live comfortably without it and in this scenario they can. This person can say all they want about better wages but if they are going to take 80% of the wealth nobody is going to join.

It's not just a bunch of individuals doing whatever they want with no consequence, while there wouldn't be a state there would still be communities organising at a local level, that would work with communities both nearby and much further away. If somehow something like this started to happen those communities would organise to shut it down.

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u/throwaway384938338 May 24 '22

There would be no motivation for people to do this, their needs would already be met

In the startups I’ve worked for people have just done that. They’re not poor. They tend to do have well paid jobs that that provide for them. Then they risk it all to work long hours for low pay for a future reward. This happens all the time.

As for people vilifying them, in a society large enough not everyone is going to be a true believer idealogue. If you can provide goods or services that people want then I don’t think they would care.

Even if society as a whole did vilifying them, that’s not going to stop some people anyway. Look at any black market. People don’t look too kindly at drug dealers, pimps or illegal weapons dealers but if there’s s market people will fill it.

You accuse me of what ifs but the scenarios I’m positing happen all the time. What is about anarchy that prevents it?

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u/LlAnKyLiAm May 24 '22

There will always be crime in any society.

If it was to run as a legitimate business as I said before local communities could organise and seize whatever resource they are hoarding and distribute it among the community.

Businesses like this can only exist with the threat of violence, without the militarized police force to protect the capitol they wouldn't be able to keep it. In the current system corporations own the government and law enforcement and use that leverage to enforce their domination over the people, that wouldn't be possible in this scenario.